NO TIME TO DIE- is it divisive?

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  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 541
    Yes, the traitors are super obvious. It's like the director tells the actor "play a total douchebag that can act glibly affable"

    And with what happened in Quantum of Solace, Felix working with a CIA agent siding with the villains, this was too easy to see coming.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2021 Posts: 40,670
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Yes, the traitors are super obvious. It's like the director tells the actor "play a total douchebag that can act glibly affable"

    And with what happened in Quantum of Solace, Felix working with a CIA agent siding with the villains, this was too easy to see coming.

    A better twist would've been Ash dismantling that goofy, affable persona once things hit the fan, helping Bond/Felix in an action sequence where he shows off some hidden talents and has something to offer, perhaps sacrificing himself for Bond, someone he actually does admire immensely. That would've been great.

    Regardless, I think he's one of the best henchmen of the era, with the lot of them being something the film really excelled at.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 541
    This could've been an opportunity to develop Safin instead of introducing a secondary antagonist. What if Safin directly killed Felix instead.

    Or... Felix didn't have to die. It's an overused trope at this point to use a death of someone close to Bond to fuel the plot.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2021 Posts: 40,670
    Felix's death bugs me in that they shared so little screentime together in CR, just a moment or two together in QoS (where things are clearly contentious, yet still friendly), we get no development in their friendship and working relationship through the next two films (sans a throwaway line in SP - thanks, Mendes), and then finally, NTTD arrives and I love the chemistry the two have, like they've been lifelong friends - it's exactly what I wanted to see between these two brilliant actors for so long - only to then kill him off. I know it was Craig's final film regardless but what a gut punch it is.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 372
    The metamorph character is a given in most films. It's the character that for example starts bad, but turns out to be an ally in the end, that goes bad again after the resolution because we can't change the status quo.

    One way to trangress this if for example to have a 00 who seems good but turns out bad, that was in DAD.

    The reason Babs and Michael can't do everything in each film is that they did it before already, so they make choices, also to lighten the film running time.

    What I find in most people criticism of NTTD, is that they basically ask for character development that would make the film 8 hours, like a Netflix mini-series.

    You guys have spent too much time on your couch watching bad TV streaming.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too, even at 2h40.

    And those Netflix seasons, they're like a 2h film extended to 8 hours.

    We can't have that, life too short and you must live it to the full.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,670
    @Stamper, that’s not at all what I was asking. It’s a fair request to not have a predictable “good guy turns bad” in four of five films of an era. There’s no harm in shaking things up in that department.

    Though perhaps you’re referring to others, as I love NTTD. It’s not even a big issue for me, merely something that stands out film after film that gets a little tired after a while.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,698
    I don't think NTTD is divisive. Though I honestly believe I'll never watch it ever again, I have nothing against those who love it. Hey, I really REALLY like DAD, and no one here has a contract out on me, right?

    I said, right??
    ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    Posts: 6,878
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I don't think NTTD is divisive. Though I honestly believe I'll never watch it ever again, I have nothing against those who love it. Hey, I really REALLY like DAD, and no one here has a contract out on me, right?

    I said, right??
    ;)

    No.

    We don't.
  • Posts: 7,506
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I don't think NTTD is divisive. Though I honestly believe I'll never watch it ever again, I have nothing against those who love it. Hey, I really REALLY like DAD, and no one here has a contract out on me, right?

    I said, right??
    ;)


    Not yet... ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    Posts: 6,878
    There must be some unresolved childhood trauma in these forums, seeing as everyone is always pointing out how they hate DAD or love DAD. Also, they put it in capital letters. It's not just dad, but DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    mattjoes wrote: »
    There must be some unresolved childhood trauma in these forums, seeing as everyone is always pointing out how they hate DAD or love DAD. Also, they put it in capital letters. It's not just dad, but DAD.

    Hahahahahah! Well played.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,058
    mattjoes wrote: »
    There must be some unresolved childhood trauma in these forums, seeing as everyone is always pointing out how they hate DAD or love DAD. Also, they put it in capital letters. It's not just dad, but DAD.

    :))
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    Right. If it was Day Another Year, people wouldn't hate DAY.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 214
    Yeah it's divisive, but then Craig's whole tenure began with divisiveness so what else is new?
  • Posts: 7,506
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.


    In which thread was this?
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    jobo wrote: »
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.


    In which thread was this?

    Check out Bloopers from NTTD. Pages 2-4, I think. The person that left, I don’t want to call his name out, but it is during the first few pages of NTTD first impressions and spoilers. The poster that left didn’t like NTTD, and he was piled on. I’ll let you be the judge, but it certainly was not a good first impression for a new member. Several days back a mod chases me from one thread to another, and I was posting what I guess you’d say is ‘negative’ stuff about NTTD, and he just kept on needling me about it. Said I was spamming. :)) Anyway, I’ve gone on too much about it I guess. I felt like I was singled out because I didn’t like NTTD, and I’m not the only one that holds that view. But back to the main question, I believe the movie is extremely divisive. If we look outside the little bubble here at mi6, and read reviews from Amazon, Imdb, Facebook (one mod here truly despises that one), Twitter, etc one can see that this film is not close to universally loved. It’s not hated universally either, hence it is divisive. I really don’t know if I’ll post on here much longer as my experience has been bitter at best. I’ve met some really nice Bond fans, and that has been great. Overall though, I wouldn’t recommend the site to anyone (for forum use). If I’d come on singing the praises of NTTD, I feel that my experience would have been the exact opposite. Fans should not be judged on liking or disliking a film, that is flat-out wrong imo.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,973
    It's not good (sorry, I mean 'gooood') when a pile-on occurs just because someone expresses an honestly held opinion. Especially when, like sworddevil did, it's done in a reasonable way and it's about the film, rather than just putting the boot in or slagging off particular people. Forums are for discussions, surely? Fanboy panegyrics and positive appraisals have their place, but so do critical and/or dissenting views too, no? I actually like reading all the different opinions and seeing the different perspectives, even if I disagree with some of them.
  • Posts: 1,892
    jobo wrote: »
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.


    In which thread was this?

    Check out Bloopers from NTTD. Pages 2-4, I think. The person that left, I don’t want to call his name out, but it is during the first few pages of NTTD first impressions and spoilers. The poster that left didn’t like NTTD, and he was piled on. I’ll let you be the judge, but it certainly was not a good first impression for a new member. Several days back a mod chases me from one thread to another, and I was posting what I guess you’d say is ‘negative’ stuff about NTTD, and he just kept on needling me about it. Said I was spamming. :)) Anyway, I’ve gone on too much about it I guess. I felt like I was singled out because I didn’t like NTTD, and I’m not the only one that holds that view. But back to the main question, I believe the movie is extremely divisive. If we look outside the little bubble here at mi6, and read reviews from Amazon, Imdb, Facebook (one mod here truly despises that one), Twitter, etc one can see that this film is not close to universally loved. It’s not hated universally either, hence it is divisive. I really don’t know if I’ll post on here much longer as my experience has been bitter at best. I’ve met some really nice Bond fans, and that has been great. Overall though, I wouldn’t recommend the site to anyone (for forum use). If I’d come on singing the praises of NTTD, I feel that my experience would have been the exact opposite. Fans should not be judged on liking or disliking a film, that is flat-out wrong imo.

    I like many of your posts and hope you'll continue to post here.

    Admittedly, I haven't bothered with NTTD review threads here for whatever reason and I'm pro-NTTD. As long as you have views that are valid and you state your views clearly and not just "it sucks, it's woke" etc. without anything to back it up. That's why I have a problem with many of the other sites you listed above in that it's just anybody who can contribute their two cents (or minus any sense in many cases) and most of those are just goofy comments people just have to make and invite criticism back in their direction, which I've done to some of the dumber ones, especially when they have to reveal the spoiler at the end -- "it's been out a month, everybody knows by now" is the excuse. Well, some people haven't seen Psycho or Citizen Kane and don't deserve that treatment. It's a byproduct of our current culture. Someone calls them out on it and they get labeled a "Karen" as I saw in one case.

    I almost called out a guy who claims he's seen every Bond movie opening week since 1962, but would it have been worth it given he's always been in the U.S. and DN didn't even come out until 1963 here?

    Another favorite was a lady who called Craig a thug with no class and countered Connery was a gentleman who had charm. I had to remind her of some of his less attractive moments in some of the '60s films and she didn't respond.
  • Posts: 526
    Thank you guys. Both of you made good points. I like to discuss, critique, and analyze films. That is going to invite different views because I want a wholistic experience. God forbid, it might actually broaden my scope of understanding. What really bothers me is that a mod has exacerbated the piling on by joining in on it. I have received private messages from some that did not appreciate it either. I thought about rebutting the mod in question, but that would just play into his narrative of wanting me off the forum. So I just let it go. This mod LOVES NTTD, and that’s fine, but let me have my say as well. As you guys pointed out, I never personally attach anyone with names calling, etc.” That’s childish, and I have no desire to waste my time with such foolishness. Thank you for the positive words, I appreciate it.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 1,394
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.

    Iv mentioned this before elsewhere,that there’s a very disturbing trend amongst some members here that any criticism of NTTD or the Craig era in general is met with outright hostility and childish name calling.In the box office thread for NTTD I got piled on for merely suggesting NTTD had not made any net profit yet,and in the Cary Fukunaga thread,I mentioned the news story where an actress made a sexual harassment allegation against Fukanga and some member starred posting stuff along the lines of “ YOU HAVE AN AGENDA AGAINST THIS FILM!!!!! “

    Like are they seriously thinking that the lady in question didn’t think NTTD was all that great and made a #Metoo allegation against Fukanaga in revenge? Also,I paid to see the film,and despite my issues with it ,I will pick up a copy when it is released on home media.Whether it makes a profit or loss will not change my feelings on the movie.


  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I'm sorry that you feel the community has victimized you in this way. As you said, you posted your comments on various things, and people respond with their own thoughts and feelings. I think the thing to do (and I'm speaking to myself here as it's something I need to work on as well) is just take it on the chin and move on. This sort of thing just comes across as quite whiny, to be honest.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    For those that don’t think the film is divisive, check out the replies from posters and mods that are pro-NTTD in threads where I’ve posted. I saw an established member here run off the board by a group of very pro NTTD posters that took his comments personally. It was distasteful to say the least.

    Iv mentioned this before elsewhere,that there’s a very disturbing trend amongst some members here that any criticism of NTTD or the Craig era in general is met with outright hostility and childish name calling.In the box office thread for NTTD I got piled on for merely suggesting NTTD had not made any net profit yet,and in the Cary Fukunaga thread,I mentioned the news story where an actress made a sexual harassment allegation against Fukanga and some member starred posting stuff along the lines of “ YOU HAVE AN AGENDA AGAINST THIS FILM!!!!! “

    Like are they seriously thinking that the lady in question didn’t think NTTD was all that great and made a #Metoo allegation against Fukanaga in revenge? Also,I paid to see the film,and despite my issues with it ,I will pick up a copy when it is released on home media.Whether it makes a profit or loss will not change my feelings on the movie.


    Yes, I saw that. I quit posting on the main NTTD threads. I too will end up buying it (I want to complete my DC collection), even though I don’t know if or when I’ll watch it. If you’re anti-NTTD there are certain mods that hav taken action. And I’m not just referring to petty name-calling or things of that nature.
    @NickTwentyTwo
    Yes, you’re probably correct. From members I can expect this, but when mods join in with the members that is a huge issue. Wouldn’t you agree with that? I even tried to reach out to the mod(s), mainly it’s one, and I got the cold shoulder. @NickTwentyTwo btw, we are good, just want to clarify that. I know you were on one of the threads I was talking about. So I don’t want you to think I’m saying this toward you.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,527
    Can you show where a mod has engaged in "outright hostility and childish name calling"? Or, what exactly are the mods in question being accused of?
  • I don’t think there’s a need to be so rude to people with differing opinions. I consider myself extremely vocal in my opinions, and I’m unafraid to do just that. That being said, there have been moments on this site where I have engaged in some pretty “deep debates” with fellow members, and at the end of the day, I’ve found it much easier to walk away then to keep it going and going, because to be perfectly blunt, there are just some people who aren’t worth the back and forth, it’s never a productive use of ones time to sit there and constantly engage with someone you hardly know over an Internet Board.
  • Posts: 1,394
    I'm sorry that you feel the community has victimized you in this way. As you said, you posted your comments on various things, and people respond with their own thoughts and feelings. I think the thing to do (and I'm speaking to myself here as it's something I need to work on as well) is just take it on the chin and move on. This sort of thing just comes across as quite whiny, to be honest.

    Thank you.

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    Can you show where a mod has engaged in "outright hostility and childish name calling"? Or, what exactly are the mods in question being accused of?

    No, they have never engaged in name calling, or anything like that. I probably need to let it ride, @007ClassicBondFan had some very wise words there. I was going on different threads about NTTD (this is one example) and was stating x,y and z about NTTD, none of it was positive, but it wasn’t outlandish or patently false (imo anyway). This mod even referenced me in another thread (lately) after one mod had intervened and said that if I needed to be flagged, I should be. Basically, I and someone else here (that’s well respected) thought he was saying that I needed to be flagged. Can a mod bait a poster? Food for thought. Honestly, I think it simply boils down to a personality conflict and I probably should just leave it at that. For the record, I don’t have an issue with any poster on this site. Has anyone seen a poster doing repetitive praise of NTTD on various threads (mine is as called spam)? I have. Has any mod intervened on any of that posting? No. What’s wrong with that picture? I’ll leave my gripe at this: sometimes a valid viewpoint or fact is false if someone disagrees with it.
  • I’ll leave my gripe at this: sometimes a valid viewpoint or fact is false if someone disagrees with it.

    I can't say that I agree with this. A "viewpoint" (valid or not) is not equivalent to a fact. It can be agreed with or disagreed with, but it is not a fact; it is an opinion. A fact is a fact, it is not false regardless of who disagrees with it. Once upon a time standard opinion was that the Sun revolved around the Earth and some people got into a whole lot of trouble for insisting the opposite -- that the Earth, in fact, revolved around the Sun. Regardless of who believed what, the fact remained a fact and the widely-held falsehood was eventually disproven.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,838
    @sworddevil1
    But you haven’t seen the film, though? Is that right? I think that’s what ticks people off. If you haven’t seen the film then how can you have an opinion on any of the nuances of what makes a film?

    I mean if you said: I just can’t watch a film that kills James Bond, you could debate and argue your legitimate stance from here…

    But instead you’re criticizing a film you haven’t laid eyes on.

    Can you see why that would turn people off of your posts?
  • Can you show where a mod has engaged in "outright hostility and childish name calling"? Or, what exactly are the mods in question being accused of?

    No, they have never engaged in name calling, or anything like that. I probably need to let it ride, @007ClassicBondFan had some very wise words there. I was going on different threads about NTTD (this is one example) and was stating x,y and z about NTTD, none of it was positive, but it wasn’t outlandish or patently false (imo anyway). This mod even referenced me in another thread (lately) after one mod had intervened and said that if I needed to be flagged, I should be. Basically, I and someone else here (that’s well respected) thought he was saying that I needed to be flagged. Can a mod bait a poster? Food for thought. Honestly, I think it simply boils down to a personality conflict and I probably should just leave it at that. For the record, I don’t have an issue with any poster on this site. Has anyone seen a poster doing repetitive praise of NTTD on various threads (mine is as called spam)? I have. Has any mod intervened on any of that posting? No. What’s wrong with that picture? I’ll leave my gripe at this: sometimes a valid viewpoint or fact is false if someone disagrees with it.

    Well I for one am always interested in hearing your own opinions, as well as that of any Bond fan on the site, and will always respect them, even if I don’t agree with them 😁
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