NO TIME TO DIE- is it divisive?

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Comments

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,526
    Of course, all viewpoints are valid and fair game and if presented in a way that invites discussion, very welcome. I suppose, because this is a "fan site", if you have a member going around to different threads saying "I love this movie! I love this movie! I love this movie!" etc., it is probably going to be overlooked because it's fairly benign spam, and it's generally in line with how people in a "fan site" might act. But if you do the opposite, and mention everywhere your dislike for one of the films, I think it's within the realm of reasonability that some people are going to view that in a harsher light and view that sort of spam as "less benign" if you will. Spreading negativity. Not saying it's necessarily fair, it's just the nature of things.

    I don't know, I hope some of that makes sense.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    peter wrote: »
    @sworddevil1
    But you haven’t seen the film, though? Is that right? I think that’s what ticks people off. If you haven’t seen the film then how can you have an opinion on any of the nuances of what makes a film?

    I mean if you said: I just can’t watch a film that kills James Bond, you could debate and argue your legitimate stance from here…

    But instead you’re criticizing a film you haven’t laid eyes on.

    Can you see why that would turn people off of your posts?

    Yes, I can see how that would vex people. However, I have seen the film twice. Just to clarify. I saw it on opening day in the states, and once on video on demand with a family member, not that long ago.
    🙂
  • Posts: 526
    Can you show where a mod has engaged in "outright hostility and childish name calling"? Or, what exactly are the mods in question being accused of?

    No, they have never engaged in name calling, or anything like that. I probably need to let it ride, @007ClassicBondFan had some very wise words there. I was going on different threads about NTTD (this is one example) and was stating x,y and z about NTTD, none of it was positive, but it wasn’t outlandish or patently false (imo anyway). This mod even referenced me in another thread (lately) after one mod had intervened and said that if I needed to be flagged, I should be. Basically, I and someone else here (that’s well respected) thought he was saying that I needed to be flagged. Can a mod bait a poster? Food for thought. Honestly, I think it simply boils down to a personality conflict and I probably should just leave it at that. For the record, I don’t have an issue with any poster on this site. Has anyone seen a poster doing repetitive praise of NTTD on various threads (mine is as called spam)? I have. Has any mod intervened on any of that posting? No. What’s wrong with that picture? I’ll leave my gripe at this: sometimes a valid viewpoint or fact is false if someone disagrees with it.

    Well I for one am always interested in hearing your own opinions, as well as that of any Bond fan on the site, and will always respect them, even if I don’t agree with them 😁

    Thanks friend! Same here 😀
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,976
    All right. Okay.


    It's more behavior than opinion isn't it. Touched on above, there's no moral equivalence between praising praising praising and complaining complaining complaining. When it's frequently expressed, the second case likely stops being civil.

    My example for this shared elsewhere was a person doesn't go to a favorite restaurant and keep complaining about the food. A negative point made isn't off limits, but its mention goes a long way. After a point, if you don't like something on the menu don't order it. For someone compelled to keep harping on the negative, I expect the person wouldn't get away with similar behavior in the workplace. At home with family. Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your family, that kind of thing. Not so civil.

    Haven't read all the exchanges at the time of the release, likely I'll go back to them eventually. Normally that period is wildly out of control, credit to the Mods for keeping things under control. That's no small feat.

    Regarding positive comments being protected thought, not so much. I've been around long enough to see posters that obviously lurked in the background to learn likes and dislikes expressed, careful to assess posters' and Mods' own views. Then they play the board like a cheap violin for a while. Emerge to do their mischief, drawing heat from regulars and claiming victimhood to be rescued by the like-minded. It's common in Management to receive well what aligns with their opinion, to the point of being tone deaf to behavior and how it's expressed. So I've seen wholesale chronically negative views by bad actors shepherded here, and fine posters dressed down or driven out. I don't have recent specific examples for that, and probably wouldn't offer them up if I did. Just my observation take it or leave it. And those mischief-makers don't endure anyway in the long view.

    As far as negative views, and I haven't seen everything including responses to what I reference, but I recall a poster freely offered up that the latest Bond film and/or its content represented
    a steaming turd.
    I did not see any pushback on that from Mods or otherwise. Beyond opinion to me that's the example of offensive, hate-filled, disruptive behavior that has no place on a discussion board like this. And I'm not misusing the word hate, it was openly offered up as part of the expression. By design it's a lashing out of frustration intended to provoke similar and opposite frustration from the alternate positive view. And normally good folks either police their own or higher authority steps in. You can't let bad things happen to good people, right? Not about opinion. Again, there's no direct equivalence between praise and complaints in this case. But that's just me.

    So if there's enough empathy to truly go around, there should be some for the folks who are enjoying the latest Bond film during its release is all.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,687
    Beyond opinion to me that's the example of offensive, hate-filled, disruptive behavior that has no place on a discussion board like this. And I'm not misusing the word hate, it was openly offered up as part of the expression. By design it's a lashing out of frustration intended to provoke similar and opposite frustration from the alternate positive view.
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post. I wasn't intending it as a provocation for fighting- I was just letting off the steam the movie pumped into me by making the lazy writing & killing choices that it did. I don't go into a Bond movie with a chip on my shoulder, I simply expect it to entertain me. When so many here were shooting down SPECTRE left & right, I was one of what seemed like small number of fellows here defending it.
    They killed M & I disliked it.
    They killed Leiter & Bond & I hated it.
    I am now free of the hate- I just won't ever watch it again.
    In my mind, Bond lives to die another day.

    B-)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,976
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post.
    That wasn't it, @chrisisall.

    What's in spoilers is a specific reference to a comment, exact language.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post.
    That wasn't it, @chrisisall.

    What's in spoilers is a specific reference to a comment, exact language.

    No, I'm just saying that I too layed into it a bit, and that possibly others taking pot shots at it may have had the same motivation as I.
  • Posts: 526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post.
    That wasn't it, @chrisisall.

    What's in spoilers is a specific reference to a comment, exact language.

    No, I'm just saying that I too layed into it a bit, and that possibly others taking pot shots at it may have had the same motivation as I.

    I think we’re on the same page @chrisisall. I saw the spoiler and term in there. I’ve never said anything of the kind. My criticisms have I’d say, 95% plus been backed up by reasoning. If someone went around saying what @RichardTheBruce referred to in his spoiler tag, I can see why that would invite trouble. I’d almost guarantee if someone tried to start a “No Time to Die: Why it Should Not Have Been Made“ thread, it would get shut down.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post.
    That wasn't it, @chrisisall.

    What's in spoilers is a specific reference to a comment, exact language.

    No, I'm just saying that I too layed into it a bit, and that possibly others taking pot shots at it may have had the same motivation as I.

    I think we’re on the same page @chrisisall. I saw the spoiler and term in there. I’ve never said anything of the kind. My criticisms have I’d say, 95% plus been backed up by reasoning. If someone went around saying what @RichardTheBruce referred to in his spoiler tag, I can see why that would invite trouble. I’d almost guarantee if someone tried to start a “No Time to Die: Why it Should Not Have Been Made“ thread, it would get shut down.

    I'm game. :D
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    I think, negative opinions and calling the film a turd or fetid or whatever, it’s perfectly valid. Comments ad nauseum though, between positive or negative, the negative ones are going to stick out more for sure, and I think it’s reasonable to expect this.
  • Posts: 526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, I semi-comically referred to NTTD as 'fetid' in one post.
    That wasn't it, @chrisisall.

    What's in spoilers is a specific reference to a comment, exact language.

    No, I'm just saying that I too layed into it a bit, and that possibly others taking pot shots at it may have had the same motivation as I.

    I think we’re on the same page @chrisisall. I saw the spoiler and term in there. I’ve never said anything of the kind. My criticisms have I’d say, 95% plus been backed up by reasoning. If someone went around saying what @RichardTheBruce referred to in his spoiler tag, I can see why that would invite trouble. I’d almost guarantee if someone tried to start a “No Time to Die: Why it Should Not Have Been Made“ thread, it would get shut down.

    I'm game. :D

    I would start the thread, but I don’t think I’m on the Christmas Card list at the moment. I was also accused of “trying to get people to not like NTTD.” That was total conjecture and speculation. Plus an inaccurate judgment. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean I’m on a crusade. Good grief. But this incident did occur with a mod. At this point, I’m pretty much numb to NTTD. If someone does want to start it , I’ll be the first to post.

    @NickTwentyTwo
    I think you’re absolutely right-your two posts about negativity being more of a target. But, does that make it right? A double standard. I can’t see how that’s fair. It’s certainly easier to curb and control, but not just imo. Of course, I’m just a new poster. No more, and no less.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    If someone does want to start it , I’ll be the first to post.
    Well, maybe not the first.... ;)

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,976
    A little.

    escape-from-new-york-reboot-in-the-works-with-saw-co-creator_sbms.280.jpg

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    A little.

    escape-from-new-york-reboot-in-the-works-with-saw-co-creator_sbms.280.jpg

    Big Plissken fan here, BTW. B-)
  • Posts: 526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    If someone does want to start it , I’ll be the first to post.
    Well, maybe not the first.... ;)

    😂 very good! 😃
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    If someone does want to start it , I’ll be the first to post.
    Well, maybe not the first.... ;)

    😂 very good! 😃

    Like Jack Burton said, you never know 'till you try... :))
  • Posts: 526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    If someone does want to start it , I’ll be the first to post.
    Well, maybe not the first.... ;)

    😂 very good! 😃

    Like Jack Burton said, you never know 'till you try... :))

    Yes indeed, very true! ;) I honestly don’t see what would be wrong with it, but I don’t think it would make it. For those that don’t like the movie, it would keep the other NTTD threads clear. People that enjoy it could chat away. Win-win imo.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,459
    peter wrote: »
    @sworddevil1
    But you haven’t seen the film, though? Is that right? I think that’s what ticks people off. If you haven’t seen the film then how can you have an opinion on any of the nuances of what makes a film?

    I mean if you said: I just can’t watch a film that kills James Bond, you could debate and argue your legitimate stance from here…

    But instead you’re criticizing a film you haven’t laid eyes on.

    Can you see why that would turn people off of your posts?

    Yes, I can see how that would vex people. However, I have seen the film twice. Just to clarify. I saw it on opening day in the states, and once on video on demand with a family member, not that long ago.
    🙂

    My apologies @sworddevil1 , I thought you were the poster who hadn't watched the film. Fire at will then, lol.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    All right. Okay.


    It's more behavior than opinion isn't it. Touched on above, there's no moral equivalence between praising praising praising and complaining complaining complaining. When it's frequently expressed, the second case likely stops being civil.

    My example for this shared elsewhere was a person doesn't go to a favorite restaurant and keep complaining about the food. A negative point made isn't off limits, but its mention goes a long way. After a point, if you don't like something on the menu don't order it. For someone compelled to keep harping on the negative, I expect the person wouldn't get away with similar behavior in the workplace. At home with family. Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your family, that kind of thing. Not so civil.

    Haven't read all the exchanges at the time of the release, likely I'll go back to them eventually. Normally that period is wildly out of control, credit to the Mods for keeping things under control. That's no small feat.

    Regarding positive comments being protected thought, not so much. I've been around long enough to see posters that obviously lurked in the background to learn likes and dislikes expressed, careful to assess posters' and Mods' own views. Then they play the board like a cheap violin for a while. Emerge to do their mischief, drawing heat from regulars and claiming victimhood to be rescued by the like-minded. It's common in Management to receive well what aligns with their opinion, to the point of being tone deaf to behavior and how it's expressed. So I've seen wholesale chronically negative views by bad actors shepherded here, and fine posters dressed down or driven out. I don't have recent specific examples for that, and probably wouldn't offer them up if I did. Just my observation take it or leave it. And those mischief-makers don't endure anyway in the long view.

    As far as negative views, and I haven't seen everything including responses to what I reference, but I recall a poster freely offered up that the latest Bond film and/or its content represented
    a steaming turd.
    I did not see any pushback on that from Mods or otherwise. Beyond opinion to me that's the example of offensive, hate-filled, disruptive behavior that has no place on a discussion board like this. And I'm not misusing the word hate, it was openly offered up as part of the expression. By design it's a lashing out of frustration intended to provoke similar and opposite frustration from the alternate positive view. And normally good folks either police their own or higher authority steps in. You can't let bad things happen to good people, right? Not about opinion. Again, there's no direct equivalence between praise and complaints in this case. But that's just me.

    So if there's enough empathy to truly go around, there should be some for the folks who are enjoying the latest Bond film during its release is all.

    Excellent post.

    To be fair, mods may not react because they simply haven't read a certain post. We do what we can but the NTTD threads filled up very fast and some of that content will have gone unnoticed. It helps if people flag. 😉
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I think it s important to remember that not everything a mod writes is intended as moderator talk. They are also just regular people who like to speak their mind.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,564
    Well as long as we're being divisive...

    Several years back, in one of the few threads that was allowed to discuss politics, I developed a habit of commenting via song postings. "If they won't listen to me, maybe they'll listen to this." I've largely ceased this tactic...but hey, a great song is a great song, whether you agree with me or not. So here/hear:


    Sour Milk Sea had everything going for it. The 3rd release from The Beatles' label, Apple Records, the song was written and produced by George Harrison, with 3/4 of The Beatles as the backing band, plus additional contributions by Eric Clapton and Nicky Hopkins. It sank without a trace, except in the memories of people like me... Turn it up & rock out!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    I think it s important to remember that not everything a mod writes is intended as moderator talk. They are also just regular people who like to speak their mind.

    This. I try to note what’s an official moderator announcement or request from me (not that it matters to some) versus random comments and participating in conversations.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think it s important to remember that not everything a mod writes is intended as moderator talk. They are also just regular people who like to speak their mind.

    This. I try to note what’s an official moderator announcement or request from me (not that it matters to some) versus random comments and participating in conversations.

    And we get drunk a lot.

    A lot!
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 214
    It's definitely divisive....there's a Spectre Bonga Bonga going on in that thread why it shouldn't have been made. :D
  • It's definitely divisive....there's a Spectre Bonga Bonga going on in that thread why it shouldn't have been made. :D

    Yes, but it WAS...and somehow the franchise soldiers on. I was not a huge fan of Roger Moore's Bond... but I learned to accept it and enjoy it when & where I could. Now I can even admit that the franchise is better for Roger's contributions. Same for Dalton, same for Brosnan... and same for Craig.
  • It's definitely divisive....there's a Spectre Bonga Bonga going on in that thread why it shouldn't have been made. :D

    Yes, but it WAS...and somehow the franchise soldiers on. I was not a huge fan of Roger Moore's Bond... but I learned to accept it and enjoy it when & where I could. Now I can even admit that the franchise is better for Roger's contributions. Same for Dalton, same for Brosnan... and same for Craig.

    And for Lazenby as well. I’ve learned to love and appreciate all the Bond actors and what they’ve brought, it’s why I love the franchise as much as I do, because it can constantly evolve and adapt with the times.

  • Yes, but it WAS...and somehow the franchise soldiers on. I was not a huge fan of Roger Moore's Bond... but I learned to accept it and enjoy it when & where I could. Now I can even admit that the franchise is better for Roger's contributions. Same for Dalton, same for Brosnan... and same for Craig.

    Rog was the reason I became a fan.

    Of course, I saw all of the Bond films up to 1995 out of sequence...and started to go to the cinema during Brozza's tenure....but started to dislike Brozza's run after TND....and haven't watched any of his films in full since 2002.

    Depending on who gets cast for Bond 26, I'll know if I'll be along for the ride, or call it a day and just stick to the ones which I enjoy the most.

  • Posts: 526
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @sworddevil1
    But you haven’t seen the film, though? Is that right? I think that’s what ticks people off. If you haven’t seen the film then how can you have an opinion on any of the nuances of what makes a film?

    I mean if you said: I just can’t watch a film that kills James Bond, you could debate and argue your legitimate stance from here…

    But instead you’re criticizing a film you haven’t laid eyes on.

    Can you see why that would turn people off of your posts?

    Yes, I can see how that would vex people. However, I have seen the film twice. Just to clarify. I saw it on opening day in the states, and once on video on demand with a family member, not that long ago.
    🙂

    My apologies @sworddevil1 , I thought you were the poster who hadn't watched the film. Fire at will then, lol.

    No worries my friend. 🙂 It’s hard to keep track of so much activity on this board.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    started to dislike Brozza's run after TND....and haven't watched any of his films in full since 2002.

    You are dead to me.
    :P
  • Posts: 12,506
    After seeing the end of NTTD? Ofcourse it will be devisive. But all opinions are valid.
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