No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • RC7RC7
    edited May 2018 Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Even a small business should always be planning ahead. Two or three good guys in a room for a few days, coming back with some ideas for the direction/tone. You need some sought of vision to start working towards. Seems bonkers to start with a blank canvass after every movie when, at least some thought could have gone into initial ideas/planning. It's really what we are doing on this thread. It's not as though Bond 26 won't happen.
    @patb, I quite agree. I don't expect anyone to have a long term plan of action regarding scripts, but a general narrative trajectory should have been in place at a high level with the Craig era particularly. Why? Well, because they deliberately attempted continuity with this iteration. When one decides to do that (misguidedly with this franchise imho), then one should at least have the bloody brains to think ahead just a little.

    That’s not strictly true, though, is it? After CR’s success they decided to follow up with a sequel, nothing wrong with that in principle (wouldn’t be my choice) and of course they had a ‘general narrative trajectory’ - ie. Bond going after the ‘organisation’.

    After the (relatively) lukewarm reception to QoS (and with a delay that was out of their hands), they reverted to a standalone with SF. Up until that point there is no real issue.

    The real issue is EON not forcing Mendes to make SP a standalone picture. That’s where things unravel. So, if we’re going to crucify them, let’s not pretend the whole era has been tarnished by a lack of foresight, it’s been tarnished (as some people claim), by giving a director carte Blanche for his follow up and not properly considering the impact of that decision.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I just viewed QoS last night. The fact that Greene spouts "I told you everything you wanted to know about Quantum" is a disgrace. Surely they should have realized then that one day they may in fact get the rights back to Spectre.

    Bit OTT.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Even a small business should always be planning ahead. Two or three good guys in a room for a few days, coming back with some ideas for the direction/tone. You need some sought of vision to start working towards. Seems bonkers to start with a blank canvass after every movie when, at least some thought could have gone into initial ideas/planning. It's really what we are doing on this thread. It's not as though Bond 26 won't happen.
    @patb, I quite agree. I don't expect anyone to have a long term plan of action regarding scripts, but a general narrative trajectory should have been in place at a high level with the Craig era particularly. Why? Well, because they deliberately attempted continuity with this iteration. When one decides to do that (misguidedly with this franchise imho), then one should at least have the bloody brains to think ahead just a little.

    That’s not strictly true, though, is it? After CR’s success they decided to follow up with a sequel, nothing wrong with that in principle (wouldn’t be my choice) and of course they had a ‘general narrative trajectory’ - ie. Bond going after the ‘organisation’.

    After the (relatively) lukewarm reception to QoS (and with a delay that was out of their hands), they reverted to a standalone with SF. Up until that point there is no real issue.

    The real issue is EON not forcing Mendes to make SP a standalone picture. That’s where things unravel. So, if we’re going to crucify them, let’s not pretend the whole era has been tarnished by a lack of foresight, it’s been tarnished (as some people claim), by giving a director carte Blanche for his follow up and not properly considering the impact of that decision.
    They perhaps should have made SP a standalone, particularly given the direction they are reportedly heading in now. Having said that, we are where we are. How we got there is to some extent irrelevant now. I have already mentioned how SP has impacted my perception of the Craig era negatively and affected how I view his earlier films (particularly CR) on a back to back Bondathon. That could have been avoided with a little foresight (as I have noted, at the time when QoS and SF were being formulated) and/or clarification and finessing during the SP scripting process. Yes, I recognize they got themselves into a mess with Logan, but again that could and should have been avoided. In this case, I don't think it's a matter of family run vs corporate. It's just a matter of control and management.
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I just viewed QoS last night. The fact that Greene spouts "I told you everything you wanted to know about Quantum" is a disgrace. Surely they should have realized then that one day they may in fact get the rights back to Spectre.

    Bit OTT.
    Just a bit perhaps, for effect, but not untrue.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    patb wrote: »
    Taking a step back, can anyone explain why Bond movies are/have been produced seemingly in isolation rather than planning ahead? Is there any reason why plans for Bond 26 can't start now? @bondjames mentioned a "reimagination" which I think sums things up. Why wait another 2/3 years for this to start?

    Many factors:

    - Barbara doesn't have the same steam she once did/what her father had.
    - Eon caters to Craig who doesn't ever really seem keen to do Bond, he even said so himself.
    - After the "unsuccessful" QoS release, and the "successful" Skyfall release, one might put two-and-two together and say longer release = better film.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Even a small business should always be planning ahead. Two or three good guys in a room for a few days, coming back with some ideas for the direction/tone. You need some sought of vision to start working towards. Seems bonkers to start with a blank canvass after every movie when, at least some thought could have gone into initial ideas/planning. It's really what we are doing on this thread. It's not as though Bond 26 won't happen.
    @patb, I quite agree. I don't expect anyone to have a long term plan of action regarding scripts, but a general narrative trajectory should have been in place at a high level with the Craig era particularly. Why? Well, because they deliberately attempted continuity with this iteration. When one decides to do that (misguidedly with this franchise imho), then one should at least have the bloody brains to think ahead just a little.

    I just viewed QoS last night. The fact that Greene spouts "I told you everything you wanted to know about Quantum" is a disgrace. Surely they should have realized then that one day they may in fact get the rights back to Spectre. The fact that just a scant 7 years later we have a new name for the organization to confuse new viewers to the franchise is rather embarrassing and unnecessary. I saw SF a few days back too. If they wanted to make Silva a Spectre operative, then they should have at least kept it more vague during the earlier film, rather than so convincingly selling the revenge narrative only to pooh pooh it a mere 3 years later. All Broccoli had to do in this case during SP script development was veto Silva's involvement (using the Connery Goldfinger example) and told them to insert something re: the name change of the organization (or say it was a subsidiary) for the purpose of audience clarity.

    Then, on top of all of this, they tease us with an 'ending' which suggests Craig is out and / or Blofeld will be back. Neither appears to be the case now. More confusion. Now we are hearing that it could be a completely different story, further splitting the core fanbase between those who wanted a YOLT adaptation (which was, again teased) and those who didn't. So we get the same actor back after a 4 (or 5) year gap, no continuation (even though one was teased) and we're supposed to accept it and move on.

    So again, they are the ones who dug this hole for themselves. Nobody asked them to get cute with continuity narratives. Now it appears they want to click their fingers and move on from their own mess. Fine. Good. My view is they should go all the way, but once again they appear to disappoint.

    My hope's alive still. Just.

    Bingo.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 615
    Greene didn't even know the Spectre organization existed. (Mr. White did, but not Greene -- nor Le Chiffre.)

    Quantum was a front group... A cozy, conspiratorial cabal comprised of "respectable" politicians and industrialists who would balk at joining a secret organization that included sex/drug traffickers.

    A front... a "cut-out"... secretly controlled by Blofeld and Spectre.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    peter wrote: »
    Watching scenes of Sp, I think DC makes a sympathetic and empathetic Bond when, after his growl at Mr. White (not my favourite), he then starts to negotiate with a dead man. He hasta convince this dying man to trust in his word... That's f*****g gold.

    @peter There was a lot of good stuff in SP. It wasn't a complete waste, and this scene with White a perfect example. When White says, "Here we are, two dead men enjoying the evening," it is a direct connection to the film's theme: Jungian duality, and our living/dead selves. Bond and White are both there in a living sense, but then also there in a dead sense. The opening title card and the pts set this note for the rest of the film.
  • Posts: 2,115
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @bondjames
    I entirely agree. I'm open to a "completely different story", but not after all the shenanigans of the previous film, tying it all up, supposedly, and leaving us thinking that this Bond won't be back.

    Then again, Naomi Harris WASN'T going to be MP, Ralph Fiennes WASN'T going to be M, Waltz WASN'T going to be Blofeld, and CR WASN'T going to have any explosions. They say a lot. ;) I guess my hopes are still alive too.

    They also denied Ben Whishaw was going to be Q, roughly around the time Whishaw would have completed his work on Skyfall.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 4,400

    Danny Boyle has been filming his latest movie in Suffolk this week:
    https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=dannyboyle&src=typd
    DcLvq4BWsAUR1zw.jpg

    So it appears that Boyle is near-deep in production and his entire focus is on the musical.

    I just keep reading the tea leaves on this one and coming up with the same answer. This film is not coming out in 2019.

    They want Bole and that means waiting. Craig is having a baby and will probably want to be at home during the next year or two. There is no distributor and MGM want to sell.

    2019 is becoming a very distant possibility. I have no clue why they didn't attempt to get a 2018 date. Daniel Craig hasn't exactly been busy, he hasn't shot a film for around a year. What does this guy do with his free time exactly?

    I have very little enthusiasm for a Craig/Boyle film. Just bring me the reboot.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    To be fair, regarding Boyle, this film won't take more than a few months, and it's unlikely they were going to shoot Bond 25 anytime before December 2018/January 2019, so there's still time on that front. Could get a distributor announcement in the next couple of months, too.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Why the assumption Hodge isn't onto the second draft, by now? And besides, Boyle's film is said to wrap up production on the musical in June or whereabouts. I don't see how that might delay the film from its November 2019 release. It's not like if they announce the distribution deal that might mean things only got picked up in development. There even might be a chance they won't announce the distributor until the official press conference later this year just before production commences on the film.
  • Posts: 3,164
    If Boyle is shooting the musical *now* that's a great sign, if anything - he'll 100% wrap on it by September, and have time to prep for Bond starting filming in December. And have the musical edited in the meantime/parallel, as Baz himself said.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 4,600
    "After CR’s success they decided to follow up with a sequel, "

    There lies a possible issue.

    "Lets wait and see if the movie is successful and then decide if we shall do a sequel or not." If you have confidence in the quality of the story, the characters and in the end result, then you go ahead with the sequel and start planning early. Each movie should not be a "focus group" to then decide the next direction.

    re SP and the White scene, it was a sucker punch. Used in the trailer as it wreaks of quality and tension. Loved the scene.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    TripAces wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Watching scenes of Sp, I think DC makes a sympathetic and empathetic Bond when, after his growl at Mr. White (not my favourite), he then starts to negotiate with a dead man. He hasta convince this dying man to trust in his word... That's f*****g gold.

    @peter There was a lot of good stuff in SP. It wasn't a complete waste, and this scene with White a perfect example. When White says, "Here we are, two dead men enjoying the evening," it is a direct connection to the film's theme: Jungian duality, and our living/dead selves. Bond and White are both there in a living sense, but then also there in a dead sense. The opening title card and the pts set this note for the rest of the film.

    Agreed @TripAces . SP is my least favourite of DC’s four. There are indeed issues. But it’s far from the disaster some believe be it to be. Oh well, perception is reality.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    "After CR’s success they decided to follow up with a sequel, "

    There lies a possible issue.

    "Lets wait and see if the movie is successful and then decide if we shall do a sequel or not." If you have confidence in the quality of the story, the characters and in the end result, then you go ahead with the sequel and start planning early. Each movie should not be a "focus group" to then decide the next direction.

    Do you work in the industry?
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    We have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes. They'll make the announcement when they're ready - so buckle up for more focuses of the week, more behind the scenes stories, and more Bond Girl Friday's shared on all the James Bond/MI6 social media websites. You gotta start pushing these expectations out of your mind and let yourself be pleasantly surprised when an announcement does inevitably come.
  • Posts: 12,269
    Didn’t we get the title/main cast news in December 2014 for SP, which was roughly a year before it came out? Maybe the big Bond 25 news we are looking for will hit in December again.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Didn’t we get the title/main cast news in December 2014 for SP, which was roughly a year before it came out? Maybe the big Bond 25 news we are looking for will hit in December again.

    Well that's a given if filming begins then. They'll run the usual press conference with the cast and whatnot.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,115
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    My favorite was relatively recently. The focus of the week was the SPECTRE car chase. It generated exactly two posts.

    1. Our focus this week is the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).

    2. Our focus this week was the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).
  • Posts: 2,115
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    We have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes. They'll make the announcement when they're ready - so buckle up for more focuses of the week, more behind the scenes stories, and more Bond Girl Friday's shared on all the James Bond/MI6 social media websites. You gotta start pushing these expectations out of your mind and let yourself be pleasantly surprised when an announcement does inevitably come.

    True enough. After all, there are plenty of other interesting things to do.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,000
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    My favorite was relatively recently. The focus of the week was the SPECTRE car chase. It generated exactly two posts.

    1. Our focus this week is the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).

    2. Our focus this week was the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).

    Which really was ridiculous because they could have gone into detail about how the DB10 was produced specifically for SP, or how Hinx’s Jaguar was originally going to be used in SF before they decided they couldn’t fit it into the film, or they could have talked about the Mercedes chase cars they used to film it; so many options.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    We have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes. They'll make the announcement when they're ready - so buckle up for more focuses of the week, more behind the scenes stories, and more Bond Girl Friday's shared on all the James Bond/MI6 social media websites. You gotta start pushing these expectations out of your mind and let yourself be pleasantly surprised when an announcement does inevitably come.
    Very well said.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    @AlexanderWaverly, par for the course, given how utterly barebones the last two films were with their home video releases.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Look I understand all of that I'm not some angry guy who constantly demands a official announcement to come and I do indeed find the focuses of the weeks to be pretty cool but when EON and MGM does deprive of real official information for a very long period of time and you get constant BS rumors about the film being delayed and having to put your trust on a reddit user than your patience does run kinda thin but I am anxiously holding out for the announcement and hopefully eon will pleasantly surprise us like last time I have been a huge bond fan since I was 13 and will continue to have faith in this extraordinary franchise
  • Posts: 2,115
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    EON just announced that their focus of the week is wai lin ughh!!


    Not sure what that has to do with B25. Take it you're not a Wai-Lin fan?

    No that's not the point I very much like wai lin the point is eon keeps giving us these focuses of the week instead of what we really need the official announcement which I feel they are ready to release

    My favorite was relatively recently. The focus of the week was the SPECTRE car chase. It generated exactly two posts.

    1. Our focus this week is the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).

    2. Our focus this week was the SPECTRE car chase (with accompanying video).

    Which really was ridiculous because they could have gone into detail about how the DB10 was produced specifically for SP, or how Hinx’s Jaguar was originally going to be used in SF before they decided they couldn’t fit it into the film, or they could have talked about the Mercedes chase cars they used to film it; so many options.

    Good points.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    Look I understand all of that I'm not some angry guy who constantly demands a official announcement to come and I do indeed find the focuses of the weeks to be pretty cool but when EON and MGM does deprive of real official information for a very long period of time and you get constant BS rumors about the film being delayed and having to put your trust on a reddit user than your patience does run kinda thin but I am anxiously holding out for the announcement and hopefully eon will pleasantly surprise us like last time I have been a huge bond fan since I was 13 and will continue to have faith in this extraordinary franchise

    Just block it all out. It clicked yesterday that the reason it feels like it's been so long since they announced the release date is because I pay no mind to the developments. Sure, I wouldn't mind an update, just like everyone else would, but I block it out and focus on other stuff: books, other upcoming movies and shows, etc. It's only going to make the wait 1,000x worse if you hungrily await it every single day. Take pride in the fact that we'll have something, at the absolute latest, by December, and just have patience accordingly.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Look I understand all of that I'm not some angry guy who constantly demands a official announcement to come and I do indeed find the focuses of the weeks to be pretty cool but when EON and MGM does deprive of real official information for a very long period of time and you get constant BS rumors about the film being delayed and having to put your trust on a reddit user than your patience does run kinda thin but I am anxiously holding out for the announcement and hopefully eon will pleasantly surprise us like last time I have been a huge bond fan since I was 13 and will continue to have faith in this extraordinary franchise

    Just block it all out. It clicked yesterday that the reason it feels like it's been so long since they announced the release date is because I pay no mind to the developments. Sure, I wouldn't mind an update, just like everyone else would, but I block it out and focus on other stuff: books, other upcoming movies and shows, etc. It's only going to make the wait 1,000x worse if you hungrily await it every single day. Take pride in the fact that we'll have something, at the absolute latest, by December, and just have patience accordingly.

    I appreciate the words of encouragement I have other things going on in my life so I'm not as fixated on it as I might come across as
  • Posts: 2,115
    To be fair, it has been almost 300 days since they announced the release date. While that's not even a tick of the clock in geologic time, it's not like the announcement was just the other day.
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