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Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    I'm with @DarthDimi. It's an abomination of a film that literally manages to piss all over the first 2 films in it's opening 20 minutes.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    @WillyGalore, great minds and all that. ;-)
  • mepal1mepal1
    Posts: 1,098
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @WillyGalore, great minds and all that. ;-)

    I've got a great mind as well. ;)
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I enjoyed Terminator Salvation more, Bale's ego or not.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    I agree, @Agent007391. TS is better than TG even if that's hardly a high bar.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Sounds like James Cameron needs to raise the bar again. :))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    Cameron won't touch Terminator any more. He said everything there is to say about Terminator with the first two films.
  • mepal1mepal1
    Posts: 1,098
    Cameron actually gave an interview saying he thought TG was a good film, could just of been PR speak though!
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Cameron actually gave an interview saying he thought TG was a good film, could just of been PR speak though!

    You think? ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    Seriously, Cameron would never endorse a film that negates and / or messes up his own stories.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Seriously, Cameron would never endorse a film that negates and / or messes up his own stories.
    He sounded sincere enough to me. He wouldn't comment on T3 or Salvation, but he sad Genysis brought something new & unexpected to the party, and for that he liked it.
  • mepal1mepal1
    edited December 2015 Posts: 1,098
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Seriously, Cameron would never endorse a film that negates and / or messes up his own stories.
    He sounded sincere enough to me. He wouldn't comment on T3 or Salvation, but he sad Genysis brought something new & unexpected to the party, and for that he liked it.

    It is true what @chrisisall has said, i saw the interview as well, and it did appear Cameron was genuinely pleased with TG.

    I can see why the critics (US critics that is) didn't like the film much, as if you hadn't been keeping upto date with the franchise, the fact that the complex story, and the different terminators from different time periods did make it confusing. But, i guess making John Connor an enemy was the factor that put a lot of people off, even though Connor was effectively changed into being an enemy, through no fault of his own.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    There's no denying that TG did not have the powerhouse direction of a Cameron film, but no Terminator film will ever be as great without Cameron, period.
    This film frankly surprised me being better than I imagined possible.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    I can't believe you guys are so forgiving. :D

    - Bad performances;
    - Terrible characters (O'Brian for example, wtf?!);
    - Bland score;
    - Extremely poor teen light novel kind of writing;
    - Confusing plot;
    - "Pops"
    - ...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    I never saw it so lucky me. :D
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    One thing I'm still trying to wrap my head around involves Connor. Even though it's pretty cool, the whole idea from the original movie, where Reese is the father, is far fetched as hell. But it was fine, it worked with the movie.

    NOW however, the timeline is beyond fucked. Where does Connor even come from now??

    One thing from all the movies that portrayed Connor always had me wondering was 'what was so special about him.' TG makes it seem like it's just because he had future knowledge.

    That's fair enough I suppose... but imagine for a second that in TG, Pops doesn't go back to raise Sarah, but instead goes back to raise John! Maybe while Sarah's in the asylum (which still happens years before T2 takes place) Pops could arrive and train him to be a badass like what he did with Sarah in TG. That would solve the 'so now how is John born' problem, and we'd have a better understanding as to why he's such an important legendary warrior later on.
    Admittedly though, I guess that could make it a little too similar to T2... and Uncle Bob would have no purpose (team up against Robert Patrick? =)) )
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    Guys, you want serious time-line logic then watch Back To The Future movies. :)
    Seriously though, time travel movies & TV shows screw themselves logically in service to the drama. Paradox slippery slopes abound, and only TOS Trek addressed it all correctly in eps like City On The Edge Of Forever & Assignment Earth IMHO. Even the first Terminator movie has to work in a convoluted series of timelines to create John as we see him in T2... God, a person could go crazy...
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Just putting Cameron at the helm won't save another movie. His endorsement alone would have stopped me from watching it if I wasn't so interested in how John Connor became a terminator.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Guys, you want serious time-line logic then watch Back To The Future movies. :)
    Seriously though, time travel movies & TV shows screw themselves logically in service to the drama. Paradox slippery slopes abound, and only TOS Trek addressed it all correctly in eps like City On The Edge Of Forever & Assignment Earth IMHO. Even the first Terminator movie has to work in a convoluted series of timelines to create John as we see him in T2... God, a person could go crazy...
    Actually, BTTF is not flawless either ;) But surely better than TG
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    No, even BTTF is an awful awful awful mess... ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    Time travel hardly ever works in films. You have to accept a certain amount of paradoxes and logistical issues. Good time travel movies can, at best, distract us from those. In a minor few cases, the film is smart enough not to go too deep into the reality of the time travel, telling us we shouldn't care. While something of a cheat, that actually helps. Sometimes. ;-)

    Of course in many cases we shouldn't care. Time Cop, Star Trek IV, ... some films don't ask us to take it too seriously. But films like TT and T2 had it figured out pretty good though not perfect. I think Primer, a little known film, comes close.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    It seems the philosophy of Star Trek (minus the Abram's films) is that once you effect travel in time you cannot change events permanently, you simply become part of what was to be anyway, and really, that's the only way time travel makes even a tiny bit of sense IMO.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited December 2015 Posts: 7,653
    Loved this last installment of the Terminator saga and funny enough the baddy used to a bloody Timelord. Well chosen I'd say.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    People have told me that one of the big flaws of T2 is that Skynet develops a more advanced cyborg, i.e. the T-1000, yet doesn't send it back to 1984, when Sarah and Kyle had barely been able to defeat a less advanced type. Instead, the liquid metal terminator is sent back to about ten years later, when Sarah has grown tougher and more prepared. In fact, why not send the Terminator back to 1800-something, to some distant ancestor of Sarah? That problem was fixed by Cameron himself. Skynet's records are incomplete. It wouldn't know much about Sarah's family tree. Still, why not attack her as a kid, an early teen? Why not send the T-1000 back to the day she was first attacked by the T-800? Kyle struggled so much with that one terminator in the Tech Noir, surely he couldn't have handled a T-1000 at the same time...

    I have always put my own spin on that. If you want to move an object in space, energy is required. It probably would be the case with sending something through time too. Now, imagine some kind of exponential relationship between the amount of energy required and the time gap one hopes to bridge. As such, the further back in time Skynet wants to send a terminator, the more energy it needs to accomplish that. It must have taken Skynet 'some' time to develop the T-1000, so that delay might be the reason why the T-1000 couldn't be sent back to 1984 any more. Even Skynet cannot draw infinite amounts of energy, ergo if another ten or twenty year interval increases the energy demand beyond reasonable supplies, it cannot be done and Skynet must settle for a date closer to its 'present day'. There is of course a way to bypass that. You can send a terminator back in time, say 10 years, have it build a time machine itself, then go back in time another 10 years and so on. I'm still looking for a way out of that. I have some thoughts but I'm waiting for the one that I like best. ;-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2015 Posts: 15,692
    @DarthDimi I find it funny how we are arguing here about continuity in the 'Terminator' franchise, while at the same time being huge James Bond fans, which means being fans of the franchise which gave absolutely no care in its continuity. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Even Skynet cannot draw infinite amounts of energy, ergo if another ten or twenty year interval increases the energy demand beyond reasonable supplies
    You've clearly put some thought into this, DD!
    To ME, the time travel as depicted in the Terminator films is much like throwing a dart at a dartboard; imperfect at best. Even a bulls-eye can land you years or miles from the white dot...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,602
    @chrisisall,
    In some of the comics, a point in time and space can be fixed pretty precisely. ;-) But yeah, that's another possible route to follow. We could say that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle puts the time travellers more or less where they want to be but never accurately. :-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For a smart time travel film-watch Looper.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    For a smart time travel film-watch Looper.
    That one breaks SO many of even the most basic 'rules' of time travel I'd use that as a worst example...

    =))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,513
    It's a rare occurrence for me, but I couldn't even finish 'Genisys.' It was awful.

    However, in proper 'Terminator' news, 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day' will be getting a 3D re-release in theaters next year, and Cameron says this is the way it should be seen.
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