SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2014 Posts: 11,523
    All I had heard was that Newman did not want to put the Skyfall theme woven into the soundtrack and had to be coaxed or pushed into doing that; and pretty much the same thing for the James Bond theme. There was more than that, but that is what I remember clearly enough. If James Page is listing (or who is it making that list?) David Arnold as "expected" that is a strong endorsement, I feel.

    I would be really happy for Arnold to return. I was okay with Newman returning if he gave us more this time. The man is talented. I think - just pure speculation - that Newman maybe feels that one Bond film was enough for his repertoire, especially if there was a back and forth tug of war about some things.

    I'd love some confirmation on the composer asap!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    If Newman had such issues then he had no business scoring the movie in the first place. I really hope he doesn't come back.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,523
    I am only guessing the issues arose as the work was being done. He and Mendes have had a good partnership in the past. But Bond films are different - they have that special touch, and that part of what makes a Bond film a Bond film are the things like the theme song woven in and the use of the James Bond theme at times. It does not have to be overdone, but it is the flavor, part of what makes a Bond film unique and special, of being immersed in Bond's world, not just any action/spy adventure. Newman certainly does not need to prove himself in his profession, so I think, since it seems apparently he did not agree with those things in general about the score, that he felt didn't need the hassle by doing it a second time. And maybe the producers did not want him back so very strongly.

    Oh, this is still all speculation. But when I see "expected" and David Arnold's name I think Arnold is a definitely stronger likelihood than I had previously thought. Which, overall for me, is a good thing. :)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 32,521
    @4EverBonded, those were my thoughts when I checked the home page earlier today and saw that he was 'expected,' not 'rumored.'
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 13,217
    Dennis Gassner was also confirmed as Production Designer in February last year. There is no need for the 'expected' by his credit.
  • JamesPageJamesPage Moderator, Director
    Posts: 1,380
    All I had heard was that Newman did not want to put the Skyfall theme woven into the soundtrack and had to be coaxed or pushed into doing that; and pretty much the same thing for the James Bond theme. There was more than that, but that is what I remember clearly enough.

    You are bang on the money.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,523
    For once. :D

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 32,521
    For once. :D

    Give yourself more credit than that!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2014 Posts: 11,523
    Well, I do decently when it comes to my Bond knowledge, but I am not always on the mark about some things. :-B

    Nice to have have this info leaning into becoming more of a reality ... Arnold, Arnold, Arnold!
  • Posts: 4,619
    Don't forget that back at the end of 2010 David Arnold himself said that Bond 23 is back on, clearly indicating that he was on board at the time. (http://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=9110) That was a pretty strong confirmation yet he still didn't end up scoring Skyfall. I would say that anything can happen.

    If Newman is open to scoring another Bond film and Mendes wants to work with him again it would be really embarassing if the producers didn't let Mendes chose him again since Newman delivered the first Academy Award nominated Bond score since 1977. I don't care if people say Newman got a nomination only because of his name, the score of Skyfall is truly unique, much better than anything Arnold has ever done and most importanty incredibly bondian.
    JamesPage wrote:
    You are bang on the money.

    If that's true than the producers are complete morons when it comes to the soundtrack. How much of the GE theme was incorporated in the soundtrack of the movie? How about DAD, QOS, TND etc. etc.??? How much James Bond theme did CR or QOS have??? Do the producers have selective memories or are they getting senile? I love what they have done with the Bond franchise since 2006 but that doesn't mean I will agree with their every decision.

    I would have loved to see Barbara Brocolli's & Michael G. Wilson's faces when Skyfall received an Oscar nomination in the 'Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score' category! :)) =)) :bz
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,523
    Gee, someone else besides me enjoys using the emoticons. :) That's nice.

    I like much of Skyfall's score, actually; but it was not great. Newman could have been great, and the lack of theme woven in (especially such a lovely, melodic theme) and lack of James Bond theme was not good, in my opinion.

    If Newman is back, I am not horribly upset; I just want more from him. But it does seem we may be getting Arnold - and he did improve over time, I was happy with him.

    As for GE, one of the biggest complaints at that time (including loudly from me) was the lack of James Bond theme in it - and that was corrected for TND.

    :)>-
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Skyfall used the James Bond theme about twice as often than CR and QOS combined.
    Anyway, even if Newman doesn't return I really really really hope Mendes gets to chose a composer completely new to the franchise rather than bringing back David Arnold again.

    David Arnold would be a terribly boring, uninspired and corporatist choice and clearly a producer's choice rather than the director's.

    Barbara and Michael were practically begging Mendes to come back. I hope Mendes was clever enough to set a few conditions like having the right not to chose Arnold.

    (Off topic: Isn't it time to open separate threads for every major Bond 24 news/topics? Using this thread for everything will make things very messy.)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,523
    I like keeping the production news on one thread, I think it is actually easier to get to to stay current and to go back and see the entire line of news as it develops.

    I respect your opinion; you did not enjoy Arnold, that is understood. Plenty of people enjoyed Arnold's work, though. And this is not confirmed news yet, though it looks more likely. They could bring in a totally new composer at the last moment. However, I am happy with Arnold if he does come back.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,864
    If not Arnold then Michael Giacchino. "The Incredibles." Nuff said.
  • JamesPageJamesPage Moderator, Director
    edited March 2014 Posts: 1,380
    If that's true than the producers are complete morons when it comes to the soundtrack. How much of the GE theme was incorporated in the soundtrack of the movie? How about DAD, QOS, TND etc. etc.??? How much James Bond theme did CR or QOS have??? Do the producers have selective memories or are they getting senile? I love what they have done with the Bond franchise since 2006 but that doesn't mean I will agree with their every decision.

    They had to bring in someone else to rescore the GE tank chase as Serra wasn't using the Bond theme enough.

    Give the audiences what they want.

    CR deliberately didn't use the Bond theme for obvious reasons:
    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/interview_david_arnold_cr2_jbtheme.php3

    The other reasons why the song wasn't woven more in to the soundtrack was simply studio interference in selecting the song/artist late in the game.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Also, CR used motifs and cues from not only YKMN but the actual Bond theme too and QoS used cues from the Bond theme also. Arnold managed to expertly convey in those 3 films how to keep the soundtrack distinctively Bondian without having to explicitly use the theme every 3 mins.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 5,747
    doubleoego wrote:
    Also, CR used motifs and cues from not only YKMN but the actual Bond theme too and QoS used cues from the Bond theme also. Arnold managed to expertly convey in those 3 films how to keep the soundtrack distinctively Bondian without having to explicitly use the theme every 3 mins.

    Precisely. CR and QoS are excellent film scores even outside of the Bond world. Looking back at TND through DAD you can not even tell they're the same composer. I think Arnold perfectly matched the tone the producers wanted with their re-booted franchise. A splash of the Bond theme but ultimately a new and fantastic sound for the films. That's also why the hired him for TND. Something new with a dash of old.

    Does 'something new with a splash of the past' not perfectly describe their goals with Skyfall? It was Arnold's film to score.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 1,984
    If that's true
    It's been said publicly by persons involved that Newman and the producers ended not talking directly, but with Mendes as a mediator.
    Note also that the only person to my knowledge who acknowledged publicly there was budget cuts during the shooting is not back (Deakins).

    On the set on one of the biggest French movie where I was demonstrating some previz prototypes, I saw the director just 1/4 of a second away from punching the assistant director in the face, the fist was closed and the motion almost started. Officially, all was fine...
  • Posts: 5,384
    I would have loved to see Barbara Brocolli's & Michael G. Wilson's faces when Skyfall received an Oscar nomination in the 'Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score' category! :)) =)) :bz
    Two words: Halle Berry.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    I like keeping the production news on one thread, I think it is actually easier to get to to stay current and to go back and see the entire line of news as it develops.

    I respect your opinion; you did not enjoy Arnold, that is understood. Plenty of people enjoyed Arnold's work, though. And this is not confirmed news yet, though it looks more likely. They could bring in a totally new composer at the last moment. However, I am happy with Arnold if he does come back.

    For the record, I just asked Arnold, though I doubt I'll get an answer :-\"
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,083
    Newman score was good in some parts. But I think Arnold did it better as a whole. His scores kept coming better from movie to a movie.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,012
    Update on the Arnold affair, he answered me back:

    "I haven't heard those rumours.im assuming as it's Sam Mendes again,it'll be Tom Newman."
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,641
    Thanks, @Sandy. I liked the Newman score, it suited the film and even though he is no Barry, he did well. Would not mind Arnold either. His last two scores were quite good. We shall know soon enough who it is.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,523
    Well. I am taken aback a bit by Arnold's response. Of course we ALL assume it would be Newman because of Mendes (or nearly all of us). That answer could be just a brilliant way to be nice, polite, unable to confirm it. It really is the obvious answer if he cannot say that he is coming back yet - and it is the obvious answer if he really has not been contacted yet about returning. Hmmm indeed.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Well. I am taken aback a bit by Arnold's response. Of course we ALL assume it would be Newman because of Mendes (or nearly all of us). That answer could be just a brilliant way to be nice, polite, unable to confirm it. It really is the obvious answer if he cannot say that he is coming back yet - and it is the obvious answer if he really has not been contacted yet about returning. Hmmm indeed.

    I think he was very clear, also he answered very quickly without hesitation. I was hoping for an ambiguous answer or no answer at all but this direct answer took be aback as well.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,619
    boldfinger wrote:
    Two words: Halle Berry.

    What do you mean by that??? All I'm saying is that it's funny that the producers loved all the Arnold scores yet none of them received an Oscar nomination. Then the first score they are not happy with since GoldenEye gets the first Academy Award nomination for a Bond score since 1977!
    Note also that the only person to my knowledge who acknowledged publicly there was budget cuts during the shooting is not back (Deakins)

    I hope you don't believe that was the reason for Deakins not returning. Even if they knew about Deakins talking to the public about budget cuts and even if they were mad at him for doing that there is no way that had anything to do with his departure from the franchise. I don't think he ever wanted to work on more than one Bond film.

    By the way, there is absolutely no reason for them to hide the budget cuts ever since the movie had it's premiere. They should be proud of making a movie far superior to QOS for probably far less money.
    Sandy wrote:
    Update on the Arnold affair, he answered me back:
    "I haven't heard those rumours.im assuming as it's Sam Mendes again,it'll be Tom Newman."

    So it turnes out all that JamesPage knows is that there was friction between Newman and the producers. He just assumes Newman won't be back and he also just assumes that if Newman won't be back then surely Arnold would return. The fact that they had no talks with Arnold so far speaks volumes.
  • Posts: 1,103
    I've never heard any suggestions that the producers were not happy with Newman's score. Has anyone?

    So Newman had a few creative disagreements, big deal, that's the name of the game, that's filmmaking.

    I'm betting Newman will be back working with Mendes. Deakins clearly feels, from what he's expressed that we know about, that he's done Bond now and he wants to pursue other creative avenues, and no doubt, he's already deeply involved in another film project which might, quite possibly, clash with Bond 24 in terms of filming schedule.
  • Posts: 7,266
    Newman's back really.... sigh this kind of depresses me not gonna lie
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,864
    Risico007 wrote:
    Newman's back really.... sigh this kind of depresses me not gonna lie

    Me too. Though I liked about half of Newman's score. There wasn't enough Bond theme! Dammit, It's a James Bond movie USE THE DAMN THEME! I'm sick of this generic Hans Zimmer sound alike crap.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Murdock wrote:
    Me too. Though I liked about half of Newman's score. There wasn't enough Bond theme! Dammit, It's a James Bond movie USE THE DAMN THEME! I'm sick of this generic Hans Zimmer sound alike crap.

    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    I don't care about the Bond theme. All I care about is that the director gets to choose the composer without the producers interfering.
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