Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • Pre Titles - Skyfall
    Title Track - Casino Royale
    Title Credits - Skyfall
    Main Adversary - Skyfall
    Main Girl - Casino Royale
    Overall Plot - Skyfall
    Dialogue - Skyfall
    Score - Casino Royale
    Settings - Casino Royale
    Action - Skyfall
    Humor - Skyfall
    Cinematography - Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre - Casino Royale
    Suspense - Casino Royale
    Minor Characters - Casino Royale


    Pre Titles - The Living Daylights
    Title Track - License to Kill
    Title Credits - The Living Daylights
    Main Adversary - License to Kill
    Main Girl - License to Kill
    Overall Plot - License to Kill
    Dialogue - The Living Daylights
    Score - The Living Daylights
    Settings - The Living Daylights
    Action - The Living Daylights
    Humor - The Living Daylights
    Cinematography - The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre - License to Kill
    Suspense - The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters - License to Kill
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I am yet to decide upon a comparison of SF and CR, but here's my TLD and LTK decisions-
    Pre Titles - LTK
    Title Track - TLD
    Title Credits - TLD
    Main Adversary - LTK
    Main Girl - LTK
    Overall Plot - TLD
    Dialogue - LTK
    Score - TLD
    Settings - TLD
    Action - I know you shouldn't do this, but I can't decide!
    Humor - LTK
    Cinematography - TLD
    Benign Bizarre - LTK
    Suspense - TLD
    Minor Characters - LTK

    DRAW- However, on my Bond ranking thus far, LTK is 0.2+ than TLD.
  • I guess I'm not too late for LTK and TLD.

    Pre Titles- LTK
    Title Track- TLD
    Title Credits- TLD
    Main Adversary- LTK
    Main Girl- LTK
    Overall Plot- LTK
    Dialogue- TLD
    Score- TLD
    Settings- TLD
    Acion- LTK
    Humor- TLD
    Cinematography- TLD
    Benign Bizarre - LTK
    Suspense - TLD
    Minor Characters - LTK

    TLD:8 - LTK:7. Hmmm. I think this is consistent with my personal ranking.
  • Posts: 1,405
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: LTK
    Title Credits: TLD
    Main Villain: LTK (Sanchez way more menacing the either Necros, Whitaker or Koskov)
    Main Bond Girl: LTK
    Overall Plot: LTK
    Dialogue: TLD
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: LTK (Bond's fight on the rooftop vs 2 Chinese agents one of my favorite franchise scene, even if Bond lost)
    Humor: TLD
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: LTK
    Suspense: LTK
    Minor Characters: TLD (LTK's got no Saunders)
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,483
    But LTK does have Professor Joe, Truman-Lodge, the hilarious Barrelhead Waitress, the ever gracious Bank President, Killifer, Milton Krest, Heller, the menacing Kwang, etc.
  • It seems these two films are not as evenly matched as I suspected.

    TLD wins 11 categories, LTK wins 4.

    PTS 19-2 TLD
    Title Track 16-5 TLD
    Title Credits 12-8 TLD
    Main Villain 21-0 LTK
    Main Bond Girl 11-10 LTK
    Overall Plot 11-10 TLD
    Dialogue 16-5 TLD
    Score 21-0 TLD
    Settings 21-0 TLD
    Action 11-9 TLD
    Humor 14-7 TLD
    Cinematography 20-1 TLD
    Benign Bizarre: 21-0 LTK
    Suspense 11-10 TLD
    Minor Characters 13-8 LTK

    TLD wins in total points, too:

    TLD 190 total points
    LTK 123 total points
  • Posts: 6,396
    Can you do DAD vs MR next @Perilagu_Khan? Fascinated to see how that one turns out.
  • We will get to that one in due course, WG. But next up is Doctor No versus Thunderball. Obviously, the PTS can't figure into this one, but I've added three new categories: glamor, ally and henchman.

    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    *Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: TB
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 6,396
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    *Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

    What are you classing the title track for DN as? The Bond Theme? Under The Mango Tree?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited October 2013 Posts: 13,350
    Title Track: Dr. No
    Title Credits: Thunderball
    Main Villain: Dr. No
    Main Bond Girl: Thunderball
    Overall Plot: Dr. No
    Dialogue: Dr. No
    Score: Thunderball
    Settings: Thunderball
    Action: Thunderball
    Humor: Dr. No
    Cinematography: Thunderball
    Benign Bizarre: Dr. No
    Suspense: Thunderball
    Minor Characters: Dr. No
    Glamor: Thunderball
    Ally: Dr. No
    Henchman: Dr. No
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2013 Posts: 17,687
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,447
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: DN
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB
  • Posts: 2,400
    Title Track: DN. Can't beat the Bond theme.
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    Overall Plot: TB
    Dialogue: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: TB
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: DN. Dent is the best in the series.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Funny thing to ME is that a measly little million dollar movie stacks up so well against a multi-million dollar sequel.
    It really is in the writing & creativity, not in the budgets....
  • Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: DN
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: DN

    11-5 for Dr. No, and Thunderball only wins a few of those because Dr. No was the first entry, and therefore less refined.
  • Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    *Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

    What are you classing the title track for DN as? The Bond Theme? Under The Mango Tree?

    The Bond Theme with the lengthy percussion coda.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: DN
    chrisisall wrote:
    Funny thing to ME is that a measly little million dollar movie stacks up so well against a multi-million dollar sequel.
    It really is in the writing & creativity, not in the budgets....
    A smaller budget forces you to be more creative and put more emphasis on story and characters, in my opinion. Not such a bad thing at all.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    pachazo wrote:
    A smaller budget forces you to be more creative and put more emphasis on story and characters

    What, like the first Star Wars or Indy movies? ;)
  • Posts: 1,817
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    Overall Plot: TB
    Dialogue: TB
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: TB
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

    I am a big fan of Thunderball! (Sorry there, Calvin Dyson)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    0013 wrote:
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    You only picked TB because she was as hot as a sun spot on a summer day.
  • Posts: 1,817
    chrisisall wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    You only picked TB because she was as hot as a sun spot on a summer day.

    Ain't that enough to make the choice? Haha
    Actually, I've never been the #1 fan of Honey Rider, no matter how emblematic she is.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    0013 wrote:
    Ain't that enough to make the choice? Haha
    I came *this close** to choosing her myself...
  • Posts: 2,400
    Personally, I picked Domino because she's given a LOT more to do. She's part of the plot whereas Honey just APPEARS in Dr. No. She kills Largo whereas Honey is pretty much useless during DN. Also I vote Domino is hotter even though Honey is stunning.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: TIE
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: TB
    Score: TB
    Settings: DN
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: TIE
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TIE
  • Posts: 6,396
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    *Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

    What are you classing the title track for DN as? The Bond Theme? Under The Mango Tree?

    The Bond Theme with the lengthy percussion coda.

    Oh well in that case, I'll edit mine. The Bond theme is always going to win :-)
  • We will get to that one in due course, WG. But next up is Doctor No versus Thunderball. Obviously, the PTS can't figure into this one, but I've added three new categories: glamor, ally and henchman.

    Like to add Bond Himself as a element? For example I like the more relaxed prowess of Connery in TB to more than the more exitable Connery of DN. Just a thought?

    Anyway here are my thoughts with added commentery:

    Title Track: TB is a bit of a slow paced din. Granny music like my granny's old tape deck. I think I give the edge to DN, a bit more bold and vibrant and changed the world of music in the early 60s. Film music, that is. Sorry my backspace doesn't work, if I #$*% up It's out there for all to see.

    Title Credits: DN again. The dots are creative and bold. TB drags a bit.

    Main Villain: DN. Well what more can you see. A formidable villain, a template to. Largo is undone by the actor dubbing his voice, Robert Rietty. Very overcooked. Adolfo Celi provided a whispery voice I prefer. You can hear it on the Patrick Macnee doco on the disc.

    *Main Bond Girl: Gotta give this to TB. I'd like to play Dominoes with Domino every time. A case on black on white". (I'm of Tunisia extraction)

    Overall Plot: Definitely TB. A nuclear threat is still with is. The ticking clock, the sense of worldwide panic, love it all. DN is a leisurely walk thru Jamaica, just a snore.

    Dialogue: TB has gthe best dialouge in the whole franchise, so obviously I give the edge to TB by the landslide. "On yogort and lemon juice, I can't wait!"

    Score: Another definite TB. "Underwater Mayhem" I like to turn on in my car, do a bit of fancy footwork to get thru the traffic. Look out rush hour, here comes John Barry :)

    Settings: TB yes again. Beautiful Nassau trumps violence riddled Jamaica. Jamaica has most homicides in world. Murder capital 1. So no go. Nassau is a millionaire's playground, sand, surf, the lot. Also throws in France and Shrublands for good measure.

    Action: TB again. DN is weakest actioneer in the franchise. Nothing to look forward to. He goes round the same fricking corner 6 times in DN car chase in the Sunbeam! TB has some great fights and some underwater mayhem. Yes, there we go again :)

    Humor: TB again. I laugh a lot, during this one. Keeps me in good spirits when I flick on the disc. Love it when he locks Count Lippy in the heat box. "What the hell you think you're doing?"... lol!!! Love the crab on the seafloor too.

    Cinematography: TB a no brainer. Widescreen Panavision.

    Benign Bizarre: TB. The jetpack, the stretching machine, the War Room, a shark pool. Love it all. DN is hamstrung by budget. Would love to have seen a smaller story done first with the low budget. DN needed to be made in 1967 with YOLT money. Think of the possibilities. One of Fleming's flights of fancy.

    Suspense: TB but on my the fault! I snoose a lot during TB, off the sandman. But you know what. DN is even more boring. Wow just wow.

    Minor Characters: TB. Love the Home Secretary and the tension between him an M. M stands up for his best agent. Home Secretary could not give a hoot less of a hoot, he has bigger issues to deal with than Bond's playboy antics. I like Quarrel but he's just not enough. TB has more of a team aspect. Bond as teamk player? Get outta here, but it works.

    Glamor: TB again. Bond dressed with finesse in TB. Bond looks like he raided my grand father's wardrobe in DN :) More jet set, and like I said, Jamaica is murder Capital of the world. Yuck. Sugar cane industry brought it down. Doesn't stop me cooking up a meal every now and them though

    Ally: DN has it. Quarrel a good bloke, a sad end too. Felix what a creep (in TB)!

    Henchman: TB. "Yanni... meet Mr Vargas..." Bravo to that.

    Bond: TB. Connery has the icy cool. Love the more relaxed and positive Bond, less stress than he is in DN. A good role model if you're looking for a more positive outlook every day.

    In conclusion, DN 4 points, TB 14 points. Ding Ding ding arrooga we have a winner!
    In conclusion, love the topic. What's next?
  • I consider Fiona to be the main henchman--so to speak--with Vargas a secondary henchman. But I suppose I didn't specify "main." Next time I'll do differently.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Title Track: Dr No
    Title Credits: Thunderball
    Main Villain: Dr No
    Main Bond Girl: Dr No
    Overall Plot: Thunderball
    Dialogue: Dr No
    Score: Thunderball
    Settings: Thunderball
    Action: Thunderball
    Humor: Thunderball
    Cinematography: Thunderball
    Benign Bizarre: Dr No
    Suspense: Dr No
    Minor Characters: Dr No
    Glamor: Thunderball
    Ally: Dr No
    Henchman: Thunderball

    Interesting idea this. Still prefer Dr No tho...

    ;-)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,889
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: TB
    Score: TB
    Settings: TB
    Action: TB
    Humour: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TB
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB
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