Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • Posts: 1,497
    Title Track: TB
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB
  • Posts: 418
    Title Track: Thunderball
    Title Credits: Thunderball
    Main Villain: Dr No
    Main Bond Girl: Dr No
    Overall Plot: Thunderball
    Dialogue: Dr No
    Score: Thunderball
    Settings: Dr No
    Action: Dr No
    Humour: Thunderball
    Minor Characters: Thunderball
    Glamour: Thunderball
    Ally: Dr No
    Henchman: Thunderball
  • Posts: 1,497
    This one's pretty evenly matched. The only category that doesn't come close is the score. Otherwise, I could see the case for either movie in each category. Are we counting henchwomen? If so, Fiona Volpe is hard to beat.
  • Posts: 418
    JBFan626 wrote:
    This one's pretty evenly matched. The only category that doesn't come close is the score. Otherwise, I could see the case for either movie in each category. Are we counting henchwomen? If so, Fiona Volpe is hard to beat.

    Yes, when i got to the 'Henchman', i automatically thought of Fiona Volpe.
  • You thought correctly, Zorin. Henchman is understood to include henchwoman as well.
  • Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: TB
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: TB
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TB
    Settings: DN
    Action: TB
    Humor: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: TB

    A pretty even match-up it seems
  • A pretty fascinating tussle, this one. Let's take a look at the results, shall we?

    TB wins nine categories, while DN wins seven. There was one tie.

    Here are the particulars:

    Title Track: 11-6 TB
    Title Credits: 14-3 TB
    Main Villain: 16-0 DN
    Main Bond Girl: 10-7 DN
    Overall Plot: 11-6 DN
    Dialogue: 12-5 DN
    Score: 16-0 TB
    Settings: 12-5 TB
    Action: 14-3 TB
    Humor: 11-6 TB
    Cinematography: 15-1 TB
    Benign Bizarre: 15-1 DN
    Suspense: 8-8 Tie
    Minor Characters: 12-4 DN
    Glamor: 17-0 TB
    Ally: 17-0 DN
    Henchman: 12-4 TB

    As for overall point totals, TB racks up 153 points, while DN hauls in 129.

    All in all, a rather close battle, but Largo and Volpe manage to toss Julius No into the shark pool. Alas poor Julius, we knew him well.

    Our next round is for the Brosnaphiles, as we'll pit TND against TWINE. Watch this space!
  • Okay, Brozzers' two middle films duke it out in this one. I know which film I prefer, but I'm not absolutely certain it will win. Let us see.

    PTS: TND
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain*: TND
    Main Bond Girl#: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TND
    Action: TWINE
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen$: TWINE

    *Elektra King for TWINE
    #Christmas Jones and Wai Lin
    $Renard for TWINE
  • Posts: 6,396
    PTS: TWINE (I'm not overly fond of it but it is better than TND)
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TND (I can't look over "he knew how to hurt me"
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TWINE
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,352
    PTS: The World Is Not Enough
    Title Track: The World Is Not Enough
    Title Credits: The World Is Not Enough
    Main Villain: The World Is Not Enough
    Main Bond Girl: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Overall Plot: The World Is Not Enough
    Dialogue: The World Is Not Enough
    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Settings: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Action: The World Is Not Enough
    Humor: The World Is Not Enough
    Cinematography: The World Is Not Enough
    Benign Bizarre: The World Is Not Enough
    Suspense: The World Is Not Enough
    Minor Characters: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Glamor: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Henchmen: Tomorrow Never Dies

    I think. I don't really know. They're such evenly matched, poor films in my opinion.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,677
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TWINE, though TND is pure action in the finale.
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND

    @Samuel001, don't lie, you know you love them both and you find them vying for first place on your favorites list. ;-)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    PTS: TND
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TND
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND
  • Title Track: The World Is Not Enough
    Title credits: The World Is Not Enough
    Main villain: The World Is Not Enough
    Main girl: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Overall Plot: The World Is Not Enough
    Dialogue: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Settings: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Action: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Humour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Cinematography: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Bengin Bizarre: The World Is Not Enough
    Suspense: The World Is Not Enough
    Minor Characters: The World Is Not Enough
    Glamour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Henchmen: Tomorrow Never Dies

    TND wins which is strange because although it's fun I prefer TWINE, which is one of my favourites.

    And here's DN vs TB because I missed it.

    Title Track: TB
    Title credits: TB
    Main villain: DN
    Bond girl: DN
    Plot: TB
    Dialouge: TB
    Score: TB
    Settings: DN
    Action: TB
    Humour: TB
    Cinematography: TB
    Suspense: DN
    Benign Bizzare: DN
    Minor characters: DN
    Glamor: TB
    Ally: DN
    Henchman: DN
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2013 Posts: 17,702
    PTS: TND
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TND
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND

    That was an easy win for TND...

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,339
    PTS: TND
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 2,400
    Gee... wonder how this one's gonna go...

    PTS: TWINE. Really the only tough call here. I do love the "White Knight" sequence but Pierce is so much better in the banker's office and at MI6 in TWINE. Yes it's the longest PTS but it's brilliant from start to finish.

    Title Track: The World Is Not Enough. TND is an awful song, whereas TWINE is one of the better of the whole lot. Not YKMM level quality, but I can see it being top ten.

    Title credits: The World Is Not Enough. I also prefer the oil imagery to the technology imagery of TND.

    Main villain: The World Is Not Enough. Whether you go with Renard or Elektra, both are miles above the awful Carver.

    Main girl: Tomorrow Never Dies. Denise Richards is sexier but at least Wai Lin is a believable character portrayed by a fantastic actress.

    Overall Plot: The World Is Not Enough. Easily. "I'm going to start WWIII to make my news company the best ever" is a shit plot. Though TWINE sometimes faltered in its execution, at least its' intent was a very interesting, even compelling plot.

    Dialogue: The World Is Not Enough. Despite several horrible one-liners and Denise Richards, Zukovsky and Bond both have some great lines here, and nothing in TWINE is as bad as "Delicious." or pretty much anything that came out of Stamper's mouth.

    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies. Very faithful to Barry. Kind of a testament to how bad a film TND is when the composer gave the best performance in it.

    Settings: The World Is Not Enough. I like the imagery better.

    Action: Tomorrow Never Dies. Finally TND gets a point other than the score. As much as I love the PTS of TWINE, and the showdown at the plutonium mine, buzzsaw helicopters and the awful ski sequence drag the film down. I don't like how TND is a start-to-finish shootout but at least it (sort of) wasn't stupid.

    Humour: The World Is Not Enough. The scenes with Moneypenny are fantastic as are many of Bond's one liners other than the ones he has with Christmas Jones.

    Cinematography: The World Is Not Enough. I think Apted is the better of the two directors and, as I said in "Settings", I like the imagery a lot more.

    Bengin Bizarre: The World Is Not Enough. Renard is enough to tip this in TWINE's favour.

    Suspense: The World Is Not Enough. TWINE was my first ever Bond film and the torture sequence to this day sends chills down my spine.

    Minor Characters: The World Is Not Enough. Zukovsky, Lachaise, and as shit as he is, even Bullion is memorable. All TND has going for it is Kaufman and even he can't cancel out how bad Jack Wade is.

    Glamour: The World Is Not Enough. Yet again, imagery.

    Henchmen: Tomorrow Never Dies. I really, really didn't want to give this one to TND because Stamper is possibly the worst henchman in the entire series, but Kaufman is absolutely fantastic. In TWINE, Bullion is awful and Gabor does nothing except get knocked out, and later shot by Bond.

    13-4 for TWINE. Yup. Makes sense.
  • Posts: 418
    PTS: The World Is Not Enough
    Title Track: The World Is Not Enough
    Title Credits: The World Is Not Enough
    Main Villain: The World Is Not Enough
    Main Bond Girl: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Overall Plot: The World Is Not Enough
    Dialogue: The World Is Not Enough
    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Settings: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Action: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Humour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Cinematography: The World Is Not Enough
    Benign Bizarre: The World Is Not Enough
    Minor Characters: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Glamour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Henchmen: Tomorrow Never Dies
  • PTS: TND
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TWINE
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND

    11-6 for TND. Solid win.
  • RC7RC7
    edited November 2013 Posts: 10,512
    Glad to see a couple of us giving PTS honours to TND. I always think TWINE gets a little more credit than it's perhaps due, given it's extensiveness. As a tight, tension driven, yet action packed opening, I don't think many Bond PTS' have topped TND, for me. Great acting, great action, great editing, great score. Sorry, slightly off topic. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Back to the listings...
  • PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: TWINE
    Glamor: TWINE
    Henchmen: TND

    11-6 win for TND
  • RC7 wrote:
    Glad to see a couple of us giving PTS honours to TND. I always think TWINE gets a little more credit than it's perhaps due, given it's extensiveness. As a tight, tension driven, yet action packed opening, I don't think many Bond PTS' have topped TND, for me. Great acting, great action, great editing, great score. Sorry, slightly off topic. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Back to the listings...

    Agreed completely. Although I would go so far as to say that TWINE's PTS is DRAMATICALLY overrated. The only good bits are the section dealing with the "Swiss banker" and the conclusion with Cigar Girl. The rest is plot convolution and a deadly dull boat chase. It's pretty bad when you're simultaneously nodding off and shaking your head in confusion before the film proper has even started.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2013 Posts: 14,191
    I prefer TND, but let's see how it goes.

    PTS: TND (Both epic- but TND sees Bond tearing up the place in a jet, plus the final line of dialogue is the icing on the cake)
    Title Track: TND (Not much better than TWINE- I like both but they fall a bit flat)
    Title Credits: TND (There's more going on in this one. Bonus points for the babe wearing the diamond necklace)
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND (Wai Lin gets more to do, and she's badass)
    Overall Plot: TWINE (Elektra's motives leave Carver looking rather "pathetic")
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND (Surrender is all over the place, and the music we hear when Bond arrives at CMGN is awesome)
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND (Thrilling PTS, car park chase, halo jump, stealth boat shoot 'em up. It's all there)
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE (The pipeline scene with M is good)
    Minor Characters: TWINE (Zukovsky, Mr. Bullion)
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND (Stamper and Dr. Kaufman > Bullion and Gabor)
    *Gadgets: TND (Thought I'd add this category for fun. I like TWINE's flash-bang P99/specs and piton watch, but TND wins for the car/phone)

    No surprise here. TND takes the round.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I would go so far as to say that TWINE's PTS is DRAMATICALLY overrated.

    I was probably being unnecessarily diplomatic. I'd agree with this.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: TWINE (Overrated but better than TND.)
    Title Track: TWINE (Garbage's contribution isn't fantastic but is underrated.)
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TND (Pryce had fun with it.)
    Main Bond Girl: TND (Not a big fan of Wai Lin but Denise Richards... just no.)
    Overall Plot: TWINE (It had potential to be one of the best. Seriously.)
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TND (Some beautiful locations here.)
    Action: TWINE (The action scenes of both are lacking but TWINE has a slight edge.)
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TWINE (I really like Gupta but Paris Carver ruins it.)
    Glamor: TWINE
    Henchmen: TWINE (Since Renard is the henchman I have to go with TWINE.)

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    PTS: TWINE (TND is nearly a tie)
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND

  • Posts: 1,817
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2013 Posts: 4,479
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TMND
    Main Bond Girl: TWINE
    Overall Plot: TMND
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TWINE
    Action: TMND
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: TMND
    Suspense: TMND
    Minor Characters: TWINE
    Glamor: TMND
    Henchmen: TMND

    TWINE and TMND are my 2th and 3th favorite Bond movie. Sometimes i also feel it the other way around and TMND be 2th. For me chacter develop/chacters and humor go to Twine because it be thing take over from my 1th Bond movie Goldeneye. Also explain the succes of Casino Royale. Skyfall problem of course be that there try to remake points of Twine and TMND again and those classic elements there try to let comeback and that stupid choose for going to digital earlier be a problem.
  • PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TND
    Title Credits: TND
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamor: TND
    Henchmen: TND

    TND= 11; TWINE= 6. Yep. Consistent with my rankings.
  • As I expected, this was a fairly close battle with TND finally managing to drill TWINE's nuclear family. Here are the official results:

    TND wins the categories count 10-7.

    PTS: 12-6 TWINE
    Title Track: 17-2 TWINE
    Title Credits: 15-4 TWINE
    Main Villain: 10-9 TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: 18-1 TND
    Overall Plot: 11-8 TWINE
    Dialogue: 11-8 TND
    Score: 15-4 TND
    Settings: 17-2 TND
    Action: 14-5 TND
    Humor: 13-6 TND
    Cinematography: 11-8 TND
    Benign Bizarre: 13-6 TWINE
    Suspense: 16-2 TWINE
    Minor Characters: 12-7 TND
    Glamor: 16-3 TND
    Henchmen: 16-3 TND

    In terms of overall points, TND brings home 160 votes, while TWINE garners 141.

    Moving right along, our next pairing will pit DAF against MR. I'll format the contest in the next post.
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