True Detective (2014 - present)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,459
    Well, I just found a rather interesting article about the symbolism and in particular references to a book from long ago that mentions
    the Yellow King and details found in True Detective
    . This was written back in Feb., was I wanted to share it. The references are new to me and give another layer of interest to the writing and direction. Don't read it if you have not seen the show. Spoilers ...

    http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497

    So really, I bet we could pick up on plenty of things when we watch it a second or third time, especially symbolism.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 2,081
    Oh wow. Fascinating. Thank you, @4EverBonded!

    The comments (there are hundreds of them!) are worth reading, too, btw.

    (Also my list of stuff to read just got longer.)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    I read that same article a while back, too. It does help with tracing and connecting a lot of the symbolism and events in the show, that's for sure.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    Well, I didn't see this coming: Vince Vaughn is apparently in talks to join season two of the show:

    http://www.slashfilm.com/vince-vaughn-true-detective-season-2/
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Ooooh! I like him. Nice! Thanks for finding this.
    I'm still hoping Colin Farrell really does get on board for this one, too.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    You're welcome. Interested to see him tackle a dramatic television role. I really hope Farrell ends up being confirmed soon.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,888
    Interesting choice with Vaughn. I like him to a degree, and I guess I haven't seen enough of his work to give a complete opinion, but if the rumour is true, it'll sure be exciting to see what he's capable of. Bring it on, I say.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,081
    I watched the whole season 1 the last couple of nights - episodes 1-2 from 4 am to 6 am on Sunday, and episodes 3-8 from midnight to 6 am on Monday. (What kind of a sadist makes the tv program schedules, I wonder...) Not much sleep and +30C is not a good combo, but it was worth it... This was only my second viewing. Mmmmm. Simply loved it. So much to admire - writing, acting, technically, music... and heck, it was even funnier than I remembered. I could listen to more of those Rust-Marty dialogues. Fabulous, fabulous stuff. I'm sure there are many more details to notice, too. I need to see it again - obviously. :D
    The very ending is pretty special; in just a few minutes it had me laughing, crying, laughing again, and then grinning ... and then grinning some more for a long time afterwards.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    It is special - the whole darn thing. I loved the
    ending; it was satisfying and still true to their personalities.

    I have my friend buying the DVD set for me and shipping it to me here. I can't wait!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    It appears Elisabeth Moss is circling season two, and more details are revealed:

    http://www.slashfilm.com/elisabeth-moss-true-detective-season-2-cast/

    I'm not crazy about her, so I suppose we'll wait and see how she does.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,459
    I don't know her all. Do you know what else she has been in, @Creasy47?

    But then, I didn't know the main actresses in the first season either and they would very good indeed.

    Read the article - they are giving details of the story and characters, so if folks do not want any spoilers perhaps they should not read that. I don't mind knowing some ideas.

    Also - I really appreciated the director for the season 1 a lot, and he is not coming back. I enjoyed his style so very much and he sure got great performances from all actors, even those in lesser roles. It is so important that good directors are on board for season 2. Apparently it will feature several directors, not just one.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,400
    I don't know her all. Do you know what else she has been in, @Creasy47?

    But then, I didn't know the main actresses in the first season either and they would very good indeed.

    Read the article - they are giving details of the story and characters, so if folks do not want any spoilers perhaps they should not read that. I don't mind knowing some ideas.

    Also - I really appreciated the director for the season 1 a lot, and he is not coming back. I enjoyed his style so very much and he sure got great performances from all actors, even those in lesser roles. It is so important that good directors are on board for season 2. Apparently it will feature several directors, not just one.

    I hate when television series have more than one director (which is almost always) because 95% of the time there's a lack of aesthetic cohesiveness between episodes.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Yes, I agree with you, @StirredNotShaken. With the awards and buzz and respect that series 1 received (and is still getting), I am hopeful that at least the very best directors working in tv will want to do series 2. So I hope they have good directors to choose from. But of course, the style and tone will vary during the season due to that, which I would prefer not to happen. Series 1 was seamless, in large part due to Cary Joji Fukunaga's outstanding direction of each episode.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,443
    The article definitely reveals a lot of story information - especially the characters - but it comes across as all four actors having already been cast. Is that confirmed? I thought most of them were in talks, not confirmed yet, though I could be wrong.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I am sure not confirmed yet, but the article is strongly hinting that they are.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Probably confirmed, just not announced.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Yes, technically. We don't have official word yet, to put it another way.
    I do want Colin and Vince. But that is because I know their work a bit and I think they may bring something really substantial to this season 2.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2014 Posts: 40,443
    Would be interesting to see Vince play an antagonist once again in a project that isn't horrible. I hope both he and Colin do end up in it. I'm sure Moss will be fine, but as for Kitsch, the shooting schedule may interfere with his possible work on the remake of 'The Raid,' so who knows what he'll end up choosing.

    Apparently, the creator of the show has been accused of plagiarism:

    http://defamer.gawker.com/true-detective-creator-accused-of-plagiarism-1616949034
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,459
    True Detective has picked up 4 Emmy awards! For some of the categories that are given out early. The major acting and other show awards are on August 25th.

    The show did just win for: cast (casting director), cinematography, main title design, and make-up for a single camera series (non-prosthetic).
    Congratulations to all involved with this great first season. =D>

    Yay! I love the quality of this show.

    As for the plagiarism, it is being roundly denied by all parties involved with the show. I hope all allegations are false, of course. I'm not particularly worried about this as I have not read of this advancing further, with any evidence of anything. So let us hope it was truly the writer's work; and if so, that these allegations are put to rest. The writing is outstanding.

    I am rooting for Matthew (although he'd have to beat out Woody to do so, and Woody was great, too); the director, Cary Joji Fukunaga; the writer, Nic Pizolatto; and for the series itself to win an Emmy. Good competition this year in many categories.

    http://deadline.com/2014/08/nic-pizzolatto-hbo-refute-true-detective-plagiarism-claims-816105/
  • Posts: 2,081
    Thanks for the info on the wins. I hope it wins everything else possible as well, and Matthew over Woody (I agree he was great, too, but Matthew was exceptional).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Congratulations to the team on well deserved awards.

    As for the plagiarism allegations, I don't think they hold much weight. Yes, Pizzolatto lifted some ideas/statements from sources on philosophy, but he did so in a naturalistic way. What I mean by that is Rust would naturally have a lot of the same thoughts Nietzsche and Ligotti did because of his nihilistic beliefs, and would have likely read some of their books to influence his own feelings, so Pizzolatto made that feel very realistic and natural as well as part of his character, and has been open about the influences those men had on his work. The only gripe I have with him is a scene he ripped from an Alan Moore comic book that he hasn't been as up front about:

    http://www.vulture.com/2014/03/true-detective-finale-comics-alan-moore-homage.html
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,459
    Oh, I cannot read that for some reason, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Essentially what is it?

    By the way, I agree about your thoughts on the natural writing and Rust quoting others. I am no expert but I have not read any verified examples of true plagiarism in True Detective (and one thinks examples would have been found by now).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2014 Posts: 28,694
    Oh, I cannot read that for some reason, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Essentially what is it?
    Basically, the Alan Moore comic called Top 10 deals with a character who is on the side of the Great White, who stands for creation, existence and light, and fights against the Great Black, who exemplifies destruction, nothingness and darkness. It's similar to Rust and Marty's talk about the light battling the dark. Here's the panel of the comic where that dialogue is spoken:

    a_560x375.jpg
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Okay. Well, I don't know this comic. I can see the similarity, sure.
    "Once there was only black." That exact line. And talking about winning. White being light and good and black being dark and bad is rather universal, though. Seems like he really was influenced by this comic for just that particular bit of dialog. Do we know if he likes this comic?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Okay. Well, I don't know this comic. I can see the similarity, sure.
    "Once there was only black." That exact line. And talking about winning. White being light and good and black being dark and bad is rather universal, though. Seems like he really was influenced by this comic for just that particular bit of dialog. Do we know if he likes this comic?

    He's a big comics fan, and has been since childhood, naming creators like Moore as some of his biggest favorites and influences.

    I think a lot of peoples' problems with Pizzolatto aren't the kinds of things he lifted from other works, but because of how silent he has been on some of his influences before being accused. Only until he was put under fire did he name drop his influences, so many take that as him saving face and trying to act like he was giving credit where it was due all along instead of acting like all the ideas were his own. As for me, I'm not Pizzolatto so I won't judge him, as I don't know what his mindset was while writing the script or if he actively stole the work. I don't think he had any of those intentions in mind, and was simply taking some of his biggest influences and packing them into his narrative in an effective and powerful way that served to deepen the characters and the impact of the story as a whole.
  • Posts: 2,081
    I don't see a problem myself. Everyone is influenced by what they see, hear and read, and use some of that material in their work one way or another. Using ideas, philosophies, or occasional short sentences others have used is not a problem.

    What I consider actual plagiarism is, for instance, a recent example from the UK: a guy wrote (non-fiction) books that lifted whole paragraphs from articles written by his colleagues in British and I think one major US paper, without giving credit and collecting his paychecks. If it had happened once or twice it could have been carelessness, some mistake, but when it's maybe hundreds of borrowed paragraphs over years there's no excuse. He is currently suspended by the paper who he's worked for, while they investigate. But I've seen enough evidence never to trust or respect him even if he gets to work at his previous job again. Stealing, plain and simple.

    Influences is another matter. Didn't people start pointing out influences in True Detective as soon as they'd seen it? Surely it wouldn't have been ideal for Pizzolatto to start discussing the influences beforehand? He has discussed them in interviews after people had a chance to see the series and that's fine by me. I was pleased to be ignorant while watching and not having any clues or anything revealed in advance, and am now fascinated by references and have a list of stuff I'm curious to read if I manage to find the time to do so.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2014 Posts: 12,459
    I definitely did not want influences discussed until the series was finished; I agree with you, @Tuulia. Afterwards, I think it is fine to acknowledge some influences. I have not read anything about this that smacks of true plagiarism.

    I also think how would you bring this up, if you were the writer? In any interview .... would you have a set statement ready to say something like] "Yes, Rust quoted or was obviously influenced by people such as _____ and ______. The Yellow King and Carcosa are things mentioned in ________ and a comic I enjoy mentioned the dark and light in an interesting way that I picked up and ran with. " etc. It all feels awkward. He did "run with" these themes and various quotes, to tell his own story with his own characters.

    I guess if I were the writer and I were asked, I would say of course various things influenced the characters, including Rust's outlook on life, his philosophy he elaborates on throughout the film. If it was important (I'd have to really be in the writer's situation to know this, and I don't) I'd say that the light vs. dark motif at the end was a nod towards that particular comic.

    And Brady, you said: I think a lot of peoples' problems with Pizzolatto aren't the kinds of things he lifted from other works, but because of how silent he has been on some of his influences before being accused. Only until he was put under fire did he name drop his influences, so many take that as him saving face and trying to act like he was giving credit where it was due all along instead of acting like all the ideas were his own.
    I guess that is maybe why some people are upset with him, yes. but I feel it may be overreacting. Does a writer, or any artist, need to immediately (especially after a wildly successful effort) acknowledge their influences? I guess it is a gracious thing to do, yes. But the timing of that, and how to acknowledge particular influences in his or her own work, is influenced by many things, including the artist's own personality.

    But plagiarism? Not from what I can tell. I sincerely want Nic Pizzolatto win the Emmy for this; I think he deserves it. I really don't want tinges of plagiarism to ruin this for him.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2014 Posts: 28,694
    I agree with both of you. Pizzolatto likely didn't want to cite all his "sources" or influences so that the audience could experience the show for themselves and find their own connections. He's a brilliant guy and good writer, so these stupid allegations shouldn't be putting him through the mud. I hope he wins for the screenplay, that'd be great.

    People who read about the plagiarism allegations also need to do their own investigating, and not listen to the word of mouth.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    This article has no real news except to say that the second season will not be quite so dark.

    http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2014/08/22/True-Detective-season-two-not-as-dark-says-HBO/1341408730316/?spt=sec&or=en
  • Posts: 317
    Although I don't share the same praise as some of the other commentators here for the show I did enjoy it quite a bit. I just wouldn't put it anywhere near my favorite shows. Hope next season is as good.
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