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Come on, guys! TND isn't all THAT bad.

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Comments

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I actually like Brosnan's performance in TND more than any of his other 3 films but TND's biggest problem is it's so "by the numbers". IMO it's the most cliche Bond film in the entire series and displays box ticking at it's most blatant. Needless to say TND ranks very low on my list. However not as low as TWINE or DAD.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Tomorrow Never Dies is a brilliant movie. Brosnan is great. I said it in another thread, it's The Spy Who Loved Me of 1997.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    It was more like the Goldfinger or Die Another Day of '97 for me, but fair enough etc

    I had such high hopes when I first saw it on it's original release, a very entertaining teaser, Sheryl Crow does an outstanding tune, but it's all downhill thereafter and merely degenerates into a long and rather mundane hour and three quarters, Brosnan's second worst of his tenure he was involved in I truly feel. Michelle Yeoh is quite good though, but I always hate that stupid scene when they jump off shackled together in Saigon off the top of the Carver building, that was almost of Moonraker proportions for unmitigated nonsense

    Half way down (Brosnan) - 'ooh, wee, woo, ooh, argh, ooh, woo, next time I'll take the elevator', was he trying to emulate Moore at his pinnacle of Bond nonsense, It wasn't really the kind of thing you'd expect to see in a Brosnan Bond release :-<
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,976
    TND is a misfire IMHO. Boring teaser (let's just blow everything up), boring locations (Hamburg, really?--I don't even like when I have a layover there), boring Bond girls (no chemistry), an Avis tie-in with Q that makes me long for the British Airways plug in MR.

    As flawed as it is, TWINE is more ambitious and therefore better in my book.
  • Quantum89Quantum89
    Posts: 28
    I recently sat down and watched GE and TND one after the other on Sky Movies. I after say TND has grown on me much more than GE. Don't know why but it's much more tightly edited, Brosnan is much more like Bond, a more comfortable cocky Bond for sure. The action was also pretty decent, a bike chase and a car chase... What more could you want?
  • shamanimalshamanimal
    Posts: 623
    I liked it a lot. It's perhaps a personal favourite of the Brosnan Bonds, but I except Goldeneye is possibly the better movie.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,564
    It seems the most conspicuous failing of TND, at least so far as I can read here, is the "checking off of all the boxes." Fine, guilty as charged. I still appreciate that more than I do a Bond movie that leaves too many boxes painfully UNchecked. (I'm looking at YOU, QoS!)

    I quite like TND. From the top-notch PTS to Carver's party and the intro of Paris ("Tell me, James -- do you still sleep with a gun underneath your pillow?") ...from the confrontation with Kaufman to the garage scene with the remote controlled car... from Wei Lin's climbing the walls in Carver's printing plant to the motorcycle jump over the helicopter...and finally, yes, ending with the pair of agents vs. the stealth boat...I found this an enjoyable outing from start to finish. Jonathan Pryce as Carver was a unique villain with a motivation I found all too believable....a William Randolph Hearst for the cable television era. The one flaw I can find with this movie is the underuse of Ricky Jay as Gupta; I've seen some out-takes with him doing some potentially-deadly card tricks that might have put him in the league of GE's ever-so-invincible Boris.

    Overall, I think this is a very helpful question to address. TND is nowhere NEAR as bad to my eyes as some fans claim it to be. Perhaps another appropriate topic along these lines might be: Why does Pierce Brosnan get so little respect?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    TND was Brosnan's YOLT, except that he was having SO much fun in the role! And Wai Lin was the best Bond girl ever IMHO.
    A big brassy bold Bond movie!
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    It seems as though the development was very rushed off the back of GE's box office success. It works perfectly well but it's quite 2 dimensional.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote:
    TND is nowhere NEAR as bad to my eyes as some fans claim it to be.

    As far as I can tell, the biggest thing wrong with the film is Bond smiling during the car chase just after the super-serious "Me too" moment. Reminded me of the "Jovial Felix" bit at the end of LTK. Ah well, you film stuff out of sequence, the continuity girl is off flirting, s**t happens. ;)

    It's possible that the film as a whole might play a tiny bit better if some of the action in the last half had been trimmed a little, but then I imagine Barbra & Michael saying to Roger Spottiswoode "Are you crazy? It all looks beautiful, it all works, use it ALL!"
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    As far as I can tell, the biggest thing wrong with the film is Bond smiling during the car chase just after the super-serious "Me too" moment. Reminded me of the "Jovial Felix" bit at the end of LTK. Ah well, you film stuff out of sequence, the continuity girl is off flirting, s**t happens. ;)

    Well to be fair, if my tires had the ability to re-inflate after being popped, I'd be giggling with joy too. ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Watched it again last night. Some good scenes with a lively pace and fun action, but overall though a rather forgettable entry. Not bad but just...meh.

    I still think the HALO jump is a rather underrated stunt sequence though.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Birdleson wrote:
    It falls apart at the 58 minute mark. Almost exactly half the film. That's where it becomes a loud, non-stop action fest with no grounding in humanity or real suspense.
    Here, allow me to provide the step stool so you can safely come down from your soap box. Sir, it's just a movie. No need for the severe.
    Birdleson wrote:
    Someone said "brilliant". That word, along with "amazing" and "awesome", gets thrown around so much that it loses any weight.
    Einstein was brilliant. CITIZEN KANE was brilliant. Very few things in the history of mankind are brilliant, by definition. Clever, or the fact that you enjoyed it does not equal brilliant.
    Calm down Birdleson; take a breath. We speak in exaggerated terms every day. "I love this cute little dog!?" Oh yeah, you want to marry it then? "I hate Halle Berry!" So maybe she should get an order of protection from you just in case? It's all relative.
    If you come off a film with a good feeling from a fine time, that's really all that matters. More Bond films than not do that for me, TND included.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    I said TND was Brilliant and I stand by that. GoldenEye is sheer perfection. Tomorrow Never Dies is a stroke of brilliance. TWINE is a fine wine. DAD is junk food but still fun to eat. I love the Brosnan era. Brosnan's era is my generation of Bond. You'd never be able to convince me that his films were bad. After all, It is my opinion.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Murdock wrote:
    I said TND was Brilliant and I stand by that.
    GE & TND were my two favourite theatrical Bond experiences ever.
    Ever.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    I said TND was Brilliant and I stand by that.
    GE & TND were my two favourite theatrical Bond experiences ever.
    Ever.
    They were my favorite home video Bond experiences ever. The first Bond I saw in theaters was TWINE. :D
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Murdock wrote:
    The first Bond I saw in theaters was TWINE. :D
    TWINE was more like one of Dalton's films. Not AT ALL a bad thing now, but back then I think it just wasn't as much sheer fun for audiences like TND was.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    The first Bond I saw in theaters was TWINE. :D
    TWINE was more like one of Dalton's films. Not AT ALL a bad thing now, but back then I think it just wasn't as much sheer fun for audiences like TND was.

    I was constantly watching TND and TWINE consecutively to see which one I liked better of the two. GoldenEye was always king of the mountain and always will be.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Murdock wrote:
    GoldenEye was always king of the mountain and always will be.
    It is INVINCIBLE!
    ;)
  • SJK91SJK91
    edited March 2014 Posts: 1,310
    I do agree with the comments that it becomes a lesser film after the BMW backseat chase (which is a really cool chase by the way). I'm not going to say that it falls apart, but it becomes a little more generic and rushed as the film goes on.

    That being said, I've always had a soft spot for Tomorrow Never Dies, and despite its obvious shallowness, I've found it a fair bit of fun. (It also helps that it was the second Bond film I remember seeing!) I also think TND has - far and away - Brosnan's best performance as Bond.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think it could very well be Brosnan's best performance too. He seems at ease in the role and I really like him in the Kaulfman scene especially.

    My main problem with him in that film is his hair. It's always perfect, even after he's presumably shagged Paris senseless.

    Even so id take Brosnan in TND anyday over some of the lesser performances by Connery and Moore.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    SJK91 wrote:
    I've always had a soft spot for Tomorrow Never Dies, and despite its obvious shallowness, I've found it a fair bit of fun.
    Personally, I've always enjoyed a BIG & well made Bond film. If one can fully enjoy YOLT or TSWLM, I see no reason to NOT embrace TND on this same level. But for ME, TND is the best of that 'Big Three'.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I really like him in the Kaulfman scene especially.
    That & the scene where he rescues Lin are the two high points in the movie IMO.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    Posts: 832
    i actually like this movie a lot, its brosnan's 3rd best in my opinion. Its biggest flaws are an oversimplified plot and too much action
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Ottofuse8 wrote:
    i actually like this movie a lot,
    I believe this is generally frowned upon here.
    But I'm with you.
    *ducks*
  • XXXXXX Banned
    Posts: 132
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ottofuse8 wrote:
    i actually like this movie a lot,
    I believe this is generally frowned upon here.
    But I'm with you.
    *ducks*
    It's the perfect Bond movie flat out, just ask me.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,924
    Maybe I'm a bit biased towards TND as it was my first one on the big screen, but I still love this film a great deal. The PTS is one of the absolute best, the car chase is cool and unique, and Paris' death was great, not to mention the scene itself...

    It quietens down a bit come the HALO jump (which, as mentioned, is a great underrated stunt), but it also has a decent bike chase (rare in the series) with a neat jump over the helicopter. And (to build my case) let's not forget that one second shot of Gerard Butler.

    These days, I cannot decide whether I like TND or TWINE better, but TND definitely has the better Brosnan performance of the two.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    QBranch wrote:
    These days, I cannot decide whether I like TND or TWINE better, but TND definitely has the better Brosnan performance of the two.
    I think by TWINE he was comfortable enough to try a bit of Dalton's take on the character, and for the most part I think he succeeded, but yeah, TND is my favourite performance from Pierce.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,969
    TND has moved it's way up my list over the years; I think the PTS is one of the best of the series. The title song is a near miss; with a stronger vocal, it could have been a classic.
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    Scene eating villian - bad point.

    Brosnan - i love how he moves in this film - so cool, effortless and above all Bond.

  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,265
    Well it's in my bottom 3. I just can't forgive it for being what it ultimately is for me - generic, the most of any Bond film IMO. The best parts are Brosnan's performance, the Bond girl, and the motorcycle chase scene. Otherwise, there was little at all that stood out to me as unique. I know a lot of people like the PTS, and while I think it's solid, it's just kind of meh to me. I can never remember the story, I thought the villain was one of the series' worst, and in general, I just get a little bored with it. I know some people find it to be underrated and one of Brosnan's better ones, but I just don't see it. For me it's GE, TWINE, DAD and TND (practically tied). Okay movie I guess, just too generic and forgettable for me.
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