Thoughts on Licence to Kill?

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  • edited December 2021 Posts: 3,272
    Strange oddities, but I'd take them any day over Felix dying, Bond begging for mercy over his daughter, becoming bizarrely out-of-character chatty with long lost brother Blofeld, or being blown to smithereens in the final act.

    Welcome to the Daniel Craig Show!

    How have we managed to go from @mtm making a joke to you two moaning about NTTD. In a thread that has nothing to do with it. Again.

    Apologies. Time to get into the Christmas cheer mode now.
    Season Greetings to you all. <:-P
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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    It's a fish that winks every few minutes as water courses through it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    It's a fish that winks every few minutes as water courses through it.

    Do we know what kind of fish it is?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    It's a fish that winks every few minutes as water courses through it.

    Do we know what kind of fish it is?

    Blofish-?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    It's a fish that winks every few minutes as water courses through it.

    Do we know what kind of fish it is?

    Blofish-?

    That s a hoot.
  • A few thoughts LTK then. Firstly, in the much maligned slow-mo shot of Felix and the DEA running, if that's Dalton in the background, I'm DouDou.
    Oh yea, when the guy turns up in the boat with poor Sharkey, I think he reads his line wrong. He says . .
    "Guess what, his name was Sharkey!"
    Which suggests they were guessing his name prior to killing him. The line would be better read as "guess what, his name was Sharkey!". Know what I mean?
    There are some nice touches. I love it when the Oriental guys follow Sanchez instead of Truman Lodge who is the tour guide.
    I never got why Dario touched Bond's lips after tying his legs up by the crusher. What was that about?
    "Turn the bloody machine off!!" always got a laugh in the cinema.
    And you know what, I've seen this film loads of times but I've only just realised Dario's "you're dead" to Pam, was because he shot her in the back at the harbor club earlier in the film.
    "You'll kiss my ass to kill you" reminds me of Red Grant's "kiss my boot".
    I can see why people always say it looks like a TV movie. There's no sweeping panoramas or lingering atmospheric compositions. When you think of the Monica Bellucci scene in SPECTRE, there's nothing here remotely as stylish or artistic. Yet LTK is so much more involving than SPECTRE.
    The music isn't great. When Bond get in the truck right at the end, the score is like some Disney fanfare. For my money, LTK is one of the weakest scores in the series, along with FYEO and Goldeneye. Which is a shame. I do like the Spanish guitar pieces in the Isthmus bits though.
    The ending, where Bond shows Sanchez Felix's lighter (chortle!), I always thought needed some kind of facial recognition from Sanchez that he understood, just a second or two extra to give him time to know it was about revenge. I've thought this from the first time I saw it.
    Good job Sanchez never found that lighter when he put Bond in some pajamas and put a brand new suit on a hanger for him, wasn't it? That would have cocked it up completely.
    But yea, Dalton is brilliant. For my money he's number two after Connery in his first four movies. The eighties don't look great these days, and it's to LTK's credit that it hasn't aged that badly.
    The end titles song is pretty horrible, though.

    Anyone know the differences between the original UK cinematic release and the later DVD version? I think it's the most censored Bond flick. I've got the DVD on now, and I'm noticing quite a few longer scenes. . . (I was on the dole in the summer of 1989, and I watched the film at the flicks quite a few times).

    1) The whips with the stinger is longer, and you hear the boyfriend scream outside, wgich you didn't in the cinema version.
    2) Felix being eaten. Wow, this is quite graphic compared to the cinema cut. You even see Dario and Sanchez smiling as he's being chomped.
    3) Is there an extra few second of Killifer and the shark?
    4) Dario in the crusher.
    5) Heller's dead end
    6) Sanchez in flames
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited December 2021 Posts: 648
    The music isn't great.

    A few tracks sound like they're part of Kamen's work for Road House which came out the same year... and has a hero named Dalton. Eerie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 14,861
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    Strange oddities, but I'd take them any day over Felix dying, Bond begging for mercy over his daughter, becoming bizarrely out-of-character chatty with long lost brother Blofeld, or being blown to smithereens in the final act.

    It was just a joke, dear. Please take your NTTD whines to the appropriate thread, winky smug face emoji.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The music isn't great.

    A few tracks sound like they're part of Kamen's work for Road House which came out the same year... and has a hero named Dalton. Eerie.

    Never made that connection before. Nice.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    I never got why Dario touched Bond's lips after tying his legs up by the crusher. What was that about?
    Sanchez wants to know who Bond is working for, but he "don't wanna talk". Dario pinches Bond's lips together to let him know his silence will be permanent.
    And you know what, I've seen this film loads of times but I've only just realised Dario's "you're dead" to Pam, was because he shot her in the back at the harbor club earlier in the film.
    Didn't think of that either, makes more sense now!
    Good job Sanchez never found that lighter when he put Bond in some pajamas and put a brand new suit on a hanger for him, wasn't it? That would have cocked it up completely.
    That's a good point. Unlike Q, Bond would've done less damage in his pyjamas.

    You could explain it that Sanchez got his servant to attend to Bond instead.

    Although, it might've been a cool moment for the lighter to fall out of Bond's clothes and Sanchez picks it up but doesn't see the inscribed side, or goes to turn it over before being called upon.
  • QBranch wrote: »
    And you know what, I've seen this film loads of times but I've only just realised Dario's "you're dead" to Pam, was because he shot her in the back at the harbor club earlier in the film.
    Didn't think of that either, makes more sense now!

    I had never thought of that before either, but now it does sound like the most logical way to view the scene. I had always thought of it as Dario telling Pam "After I finish this guy, you're next."
  • I had never thought of that before either, but now it does sound like the most logical way to view the scene. I had always thought of it as Dario telling Pam "After I finish this guy, you're next."

    I'm glad it's not just me. It's only taken thirty one years for the penny to drop.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 3,272
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    If it's so great then tell me this: how does Felix pull his ripcord with a top hat in each hand? :D

    And why does a fish wink at the end?

    Strange oddities, but I'd take them any day over Felix dying, Bond begging for mercy over his daughter, becoming bizarrely out-of-character chatty with long lost brother Blofeld, or being blown to smithereens in the final act.

    It was just a joke, dear. Please take your NTTD whines to the appropriate thread, winky smug face emoji.

    Sincere apologies, my dear mtm. Please forgive me, happy smiley emoji.
  • Posts: 6,726
    Regarding the "You're dead!" line, I got that the first time I saw it, what I didnt get, which someone pointed out (on here, I think!) was that the fact Pam was wearing white cape, made Dario think he was seeing a ghost!!
  • The way they filmed it, and the music, did suggest something 'ethereal' about it. It was more obvious in the cinema, as she seemed to come through of the mist of the drug dust. Perhaps Dario was tripping?
    But yes, I do think they tried to make her some kind of ghostly figure. Not sure it worked.
  • Mathis1 wrote: »
    Regarding the "You're dead!" line, I got that the first time I saw it, what I didnt get, which someone pointed out (on here, I think!) was that the fact Pam was wearing white cape, made Dario think he was seeing a ghost!!

    I have read the "ghost" or "angel" theory on here. Never once crossed my mind all the times I've seen LTK.
  • Posts: 1,545
    Dalton was so very poorly served by tepid and uninspired scripts, wan direction, etc.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 988
    I have read the "ghost" or "angel" theory on here. Never once crossed my mind all the times I've seen LTK.

    For some reason, it was more obvious in the cinema. The way the music kicks in, and the way she stands there in white, it's like they're trying to make her somehow mystical. I saw that effect it every time I saw it at the pictures, (as I've said, I was unemployed in summer '89, and spent many an afternoon watching LTK at the multiplex in Brierly Hill).
    A similar thing happens when they trash the DB5 in Skyfall. Craig looks angry, the music is more forceful, and the hint is. .

    He was pissed off before, but now you've blown his car up, he's really pissed!

    But it's not that obvious, it's a little subtle. It's less subtle than the 'ghost Pam' bit, but I'm convinced they tried to show her as back from the grave from Dario's point of view. A spectre, as it were.
  • Posts: 3,272
    Since62 wrote: »
    Dalton was so very poorly served by tepid and uninspired scripts, wan direction, etc.
    I think LTK is one of the best scripts in the franchise. TLD isn’t far off either. And give me Glen’s direction in LTK any day over most of the other directors. Only Campbell, Young, Hunt and Hamilton are better.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    QBranch wrote: »
    And you know what, I've seen this film loads of times but I've only just realised Dario's "you're dead" to Pam, was because he shot her in the back at the harbor club earlier in the film.
    Didn't think of that either, makes more sense now!

    I had never thought of that before either, but now it does sound like the most logical way to view the scene. I had always thought of it as Dario telling Pam "After I finish this guy, you're next."

    I must admit I’d always got that: it’s why she’s filmed a bit like she’s an Angel or something in that shot (I feel the music almost does a heavenly choir thing).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Since62 wrote: »
    Dalton was so very poorly served by tepid and uninspired scripts, wan direction, etc.
    I think LTK is one of the best scripts in the franchise. TLD isn’t far off either. And give me Glen’s direction in LTK any day over most of the other directors. Only Campbell, Young, Hunt and Hamilton are better.

    It is an unusually cohesive script for a Bond: most Bond scripts wouldn’t have remembered that Dario thought Pam was dead. And I love that Bond’s theft of the drug money is both an exciting action scene and sets up the whole next section of the film, as well as having many different ramifications throughout the rest of the film.
    But I don’t think Glen directs it particularly well. With Kamen along the ride it’s hard not to compare it with the work of other directors he was working with at the time like Richard Donner or John McTiernan, and LTK feels pretty flat against their work - I think it could have done with some of that punchiness those guys would have brought. I’m also not sure he ever really directed Dalton well: he’s so much more charismatic in other, non-Bond pictures.
  • Posts: 6,726
    Dalton doesnt need much direction, he's a strong actor with natural screen presence and charismatic! I think Glens direction is solid, without being flashy, he had a good story and a good cast, and of course, knows action better then the majority of Bond directors!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2021 Posts: 17,687
    mtm wrote: »
    I don’t think Glen directs it particularly well. With Kamen along the ride it’s hard not to compare it with the work of other directors he was working with at the time like Richard Donner or John McTiernan, and LTK feels pretty flat against their work
    To me, Bond has never been about directorial flashiness, it's been about the wild situations and the charisma of the actor playing Bond. Glen's direction served Bond I thought; McTiernan direction might have turned the movie in to an event-driven affair wherein Bond is just the hero running through the waves of incredible camerawork & explosions.... if that makes any sense....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    What makes most sense to me is that overthinking Bond is a road to nowhere. 😉
  • Posts: 3,272
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Dalton was so very poorly served by tepid and uninspired scripts, wan direction, etc.
    I think LTK is one of the best scripts in the franchise. TLD isn’t far off either. And give me Glen’s direction in LTK any day over most of the other directors. Only Campbell, Young, Hunt and Hamilton are better.

    It is an unusually cohesive script for a Bond: most Bond scripts wouldn’t have remembered that Dario thought Pam was dead. And I love that Bond’s theft of the drug money is both an exciting action scene and sets up the whole next section of the film, as well as having many different ramifications throughout the rest of the film.
    But I don’t think Glen directs it particularly well. With Kamen along the ride it’s hard not to compare it with the work of other directors he was working with at the time like Richard Donner or John McTiernan, and LTK feels pretty flat against their work - I think it could have done with some of that punchiness those guys would have brought. I’m also not sure he ever really directed Dalton well: he’s so much more charismatic in other, non-Bond pictures.

    I found Glen's direction fairly flat in his first 3 films, but I think by TLD he got into his stride.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Dalton was so very poorly served by tepid and uninspired scripts, wan direction, etc.
    I think LTK is one of the best scripts in the franchise. TLD isn’t far off either. And give me Glen’s direction in LTK any day over most of the other directors. Only Campbell, Young, Hunt and Hamilton are better.

    It is an unusually cohesive script for a Bond: most Bond scripts wouldn’t have remembered that Dario thought Pam was dead. And I love that Bond’s theft of the drug money is both an exciting action scene and sets up the whole next section of the film, as well as having many different ramifications throughout the rest of the film.
    But I don’t think Glen directs it particularly well. With Kamen along the ride it’s hard not to compare it with the work of other directors he was working with at the time like Richard Donner or John McTiernan, and LTK feels pretty flat against their work - I think it could have done with some of that punchiness those guys would have brought. I’m also not sure he ever really directed Dalton well: he’s so much more charismatic in other, non-Bond pictures.

    I found Glen's direction fairly flat in his first 3 films, but I think by TLD he got into his stride.

    Yeah, he just kept refining his style... TLD & LTK were his crowning achievements IMO.
  • Posts: 6,682
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What makes most sense to me is that overthinking Bond is a road to nowhere. 😉

    That's what a discussion board like this leads to. It invites one to focus on the minutia of things. And after a certain point, that can become counterproductive. Your mileage may vary, of course.

    Personally, after NTTD, I have no strong desire to discuss any Bond film, or read opinions about them. Watching them --interacting with them in a sensory way, rather than thinking and writing about them in hindsight-- is much more appealing at the moment. The music scores are the main exception to that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Personally, after NTTD, I have no strong desire to discuss any Bond film, or read opinions about them.
    Understandable.
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