"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,054
    @Murdock, @Gustav_Graves, I agree completely. Amazing choreography, set design, sound design, camera composition, the whole nine. It's like watching two wild beasts raging at each other in front of the pride. There's moments in the fight where I wince every time, like how Madeleine accidentally gets her head snacked when the table flies up at her or the sound that's created when Hinx tries to go for Bond's eyes like he did the chap at the Rome meeting.

    And yes, the kicker was seeing Bond really get messed up in this fight. He's gotten cut up before, but here we saw him getting absolutely pulverized at times which was shocking as we hadn't ever seen Craig's Bond this outmatched before. Bautista owns the scene and he's intimidating without doing anything at all. The elephant-like pounding of his heavy feet as he approaches Bond for the kill is immaculate, as is the shattering and crunch of the glass he and Bond smash into, the clinking pots and pans, the sound of the flame that starts on Hinx's arm, and more. Perfection.

    Bond is a franchise that has train bouts as a staple at this point, and this scene here is right up there with the Bond and Grant fight in FRWL, and succeeds for much the same reason: the score is largely cut out, and we see Bond really fighting to stay alive as he gets bloodier and sweater as the deadly confrontation with his animalistic opponent goes on.

    This is a main highlight of SP for me, and one of my all time favorite Bond moments, closed off with Madeleine's amusingly awkward yet human statement of, "What do we do now?"

    It was a fight that left me breathless and you're right it was the first time we've seen Bond for all his endeavours, helpless in a fight.

    Best scene in the film. I couldn't stop talking about it to my poor wife when we left the cinema! But it was the Bond fight I'd been waiting years for!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The Train Fight has already gone done in Bond history as ICONIC, there I said it again @Shardlake :P
    I promise to be more careful with that term in the future but I think here it applies even if the movie is barely a year old.

    Personally there are more sequences that I would have to put into a Top 20 of best action scenes ever.
    -The whole PTS really.
    -The plane/car chase.
  • Posts: 676
    Something in Spectre I thought was a clever, fresh idea was having Bond attend one of the organization's meetings.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    The Train Fight has already gone done in Bond history as ICONIC, there I said it again @Shardlake :P
    I promise to be more careful with that term in the future but I think here it applies even if the movie is barely a year old.
    I agree. It was reminiscent of the Grant fight whilst being fresh & new at the same time. A definite Bond high point!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The Train Fight has already gone done in Bond history as ICONIC, there I said it again @Shardlake :P
    I promise to be more careful with that term in the future but I think here it applies even if the movie is barely a year old.

    Personally there are more sequences that I would have to put into a Top 20 of best action scenes ever.
    -The whole PTS really.
    -The plane/car chase.

    Big call. Rick Sylvester launching himself from Asgard - iconic. Shirley Eaton covered in gold paint - iconic.

    It's riffing on a scene that encompassed more than just thrills, it redefined action editing.

    As for the plane/car chase being in the top 20 action scenes ever. It doesn't even make the Bond top 20.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I agree about the PTS ending up being iconic, so many reactions from the audience onto the positive nod. But, the plane/car chase? I don't think anyone remembers it that fondly, and I doubt the regular cinemagoer will remember these in a few years.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    . But, the plane/car chase? I don't think anyone remembers it that fondly, and I doubt the regular cinemagoer will remember these in a few years.
    Yeah, it was just okay.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    chrisisall wrote: »
    . But, the plane/car chase? I don't think anyone remembers it that fondly, and I doubt the regular cinemagoer will remember these in a few years.
    Yeah, it was just okay.

    I was expecting a lot more from it for sure and I question Bond's judgement during that sequence too. Plus the score was so, so bland during that chase.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    chrisisall wrote: »
    . But, the plane/car chase? I don't think anyone remembers it that fondly, and I doubt the regular cinemagoer will remember these in a few years.
    Yeah, it was just okay.

    I was expecting a lot more from it for sure and I question Bond's judgement during that sequence too. Plus the score was so, so bland during that chase.

    Check out this version. :)
  • Posts: 1,296
    I would place Bond v Hinx on the same level as Bond v Osato Heavy from YOLt, a good fight yes but not quite up there with the most memorable and hardwon classics like the fight with Grant.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    The Train Fight has already gone done in Bond history as ICONIC, there I said it again @Shardlake :P
    I promise to be more careful with that term in the future but I think here it applies even if the movie is barely a year old.

    Personally there are more sequences that I would have to put into a Top 20 of best action scenes ever.
    -The whole PTS really.
    -The plane/car chase.

    Big call. Rick Sylvester launching himself from Asgard - iconic. Shirley Eaton covered in gold paint - iconic.

    It's riffing on a scene that encompassed more than just thrills, it redefined action editing.

    As for the plane/car chase being in the top 20 action scenes ever. It doesn't even make the Bond top 20.

    The plane chase only scrapes 3rd best action sequence in SP FFS.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    The Bond/Hinx fight is certainly one of the best/brutal of the franchise. The rest of the action is meh.
  • Posts: 1,296
    The plane/car chase is the crown jewel of the film.
  • The plane chase was alright (got better as it went on), but you really do wonder what Bond is thinking. I almost prefer the boat chase where Bond shoots down the helicopter with his popgun.
  • I don't get it.

    Why is a tank chase more exciting than a plane/ice/car chase? Or why is a car chase with a 2CV more exciting than the Rome car chase?

    I know the answer. Every bit of action has been done before. And although we long for some quality of past action glory in Bond films, we cannot seem to be happy by it anymore if the action sequences echoes that Remy Julienne esque fun.

    Yes, one can expect a lot. But sometimes.....
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Someone said here before. The car chase is beautiful shot, of two hypercars driving not particularly fast. The gags are kind of funny but unfulfilling on rewatches. The budget went to the cars themselves which means they can't be damaged

    That's before mentioning the recycled score that wasn't good the first time around

    The Aston chase as recently as 2008 got it mostly right
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited September 2016 Posts: 28,694
    The car chase I can appreciate enough because it flips the notion of a chase on its head and uses more exposition and the scope of Rome's architecture to make it feel grand as opposed to adrenaline-fueled, which is okay as we've had those types of chases already in ample supply.

    But even I cannot really get behind the plane chase. As @IncompetentHenchman states, I really do wonder what Bond is thinking throughout. He's flying the plane into a tight spot where he should know he's going to get his wings clipped in that heavy collection of trees, not to mention that one screw up on his part could kill Madeleine who is vulnerable in one of the cars. The whole scene feels reckless, which doesn't fit who Bond is at this point in his arc.

    I know that Dan's injury made it so that the action had to be changed here and there, and that may have forced the team to rely much more heavily on vehicular action in SP, but it's so dull to me at times. I like to see Bond chasing, or fighting or shooting, something that involves him in kinetic movement. SP is so full of vehicular action that Bond almost feels removed from it all, if that makes sense. Whether he's chasing someone in a car, being chased, flying a plane and chasing someone, or shooting at Blofeld in a helicopter from a boat, it just gets to be too much, I think. I wanted and expect more sequences like the Hinx fight, a brutal and mesmerizing scene of the ilk that have been a Craig Bond staple and made them iconic. It's why we still remember the Obanno fight or Slate fight; they're visceral and stick with you. SP could have used some more of that, for sure.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    By the way, I've been thinking a lot about the Craig era as a whole and how it connects in SP, and I think I have finally uncovered the mysterious identity of 009, who Bond seems to enjoy screwing with so much.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you....

    http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/james-bond-007/images/a/ac/Casino-Royale-0116.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151211190052
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    A rookie mistake
    touching his ear like that!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond 25 plot:

    Carter resigns as 009 and teams up with Blofeld to get revenge on Bond for leaving him for dead in Madagascar. He got bit by the snake but survived with a similar scar to Blofeld's and not the two are gearing to screw up Bond's life.

    One scene will involve Carter trying to torture Bond by cutting his ears off.

    "Don't touch your ear, right Bond?! Oh, you can't now, can you?"
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't get it.

    Why is a tank chase more exciting than a plane/ice/car chase? Or why is a car chase with a 2CV more exciting than the Rome car chase?

    I know the answer. Every bit of action has been done before. And although we long for some quality of past action glory in Bond films, we cannot seem to be happy by it anymore if the action sequences echoes that Remy Julienne esque fun.

    Yes, one can expect a lot. But sometimes.....

    But there's some gusto to the tank chase. It's faintly ridiculous at points, but it has an energy to it and like all good sequences it has peaks and troughs and, more importantly, it escalates.

    In the case of the plane sequence it's all a bit beige. It's nothing to do with everything having been done before, the sequence just lacks some basic invention. The action is too signposted and the coverage and editing is a bit pedestrian.

    In the cold light of day it's just very lacklustre.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Hey don't give P&W any ideas!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    Murdock wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    . But, the plane/car chase? I don't think anyone remembers it that fondly, and I doubt the regular cinemagoer will remember these in a few years.
    Yeah, it was just okay.

    I was expecting a lot more from it for sure and I question Bond's judgement during that sequence too. Plus the score was so, so bland during that chase.

    Check out this version. :)

    A big, ballsy score like that would have improved it immensely. Even just the usage of the "Underwater Mayhem" version of the 007 theme lifted it (even if it wasn't a perfect fit) just like it did during the slowly paced underwater sequences in Thunderball.
  • Posts: 7,518
    Well I liked the plane seqence from SP. I though it was well thought out, Bond approaching the convoy from different angles in order to derail them, with the plane breaking up, building to it crashing through the barn, and Newmans score is not that bad here. I do prefer it to the tank chase, which for me, was played for laughs too much, which diffuses the excitement!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Well its the only thing to hand that Bond can use to try to stop the Spectre convoy...he knows that if he loses them then he probably wont see Madeleine again,meaning he has no information or leads to progress...you can see his desperation in the scene - I like it.
  • Posts: 7,518
    Exactly! And it least it felt like the big Bond action set-pieces they used to do so well! As I said in another thread, the action in SF was fairly meh!, a shootout at an inquiry, a foot chase through the subway and yet another shootout at Skyfall lodge, all fairly ordinary, and dare i say, dull!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I'll take the SF shootout at the inquiry any day of the week and twice on Sunday over that dull SP plane/car chase (which borrows conceptually from the far superior copter/Lotus chase from TSWLM and the tank sequence from GE).

    The inquiry scene is tense and features a killer Bond moment (one of Craig's best): namely the wink at Mallory followed by shooting the extinguisher and confidently walking out into the open like a total badass firing his Walther with one hand. Silva's disgust at not being able to get a 2nd shot at M is also an immense moment, as is Mallory's bravery in saving M (unlike Tanner). Even useless Naomi (Eve) steps up and does her bit when Bond kicks the gun her way. M's fated expression when she sees Silva is also brilliant. All in all it's full of great teamwork and smart thinking. The fact that the shootout interrupted M's increasingly boring and pretentious monologue is an added bonus.
  • Agree with you on the SP plane/car chase. Why couldn't they just given us a ski chase instead...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    Agree with you on the SP plane/car chase. Why couldn't they just given us a ski chase instead...

    Because they knew how bad I wanted to see a Craig skiing sequence.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Agree with you on the SP plane/car chase. Why couldn't they just given us a ski chase instead...

    Because they knew how bad I wanted to see a Craig skiing sequence.

    That was apparently the plan, but Dan didn't want to do it and/or the knee injury complicated the possibility of the idea.
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