No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • edited August 2017 Posts: 6,844
    The source is Waltz himself, who said they couldn't agree on the character and that he was disappointed with how it turned out. Perhaps someone can dig up his actual quotes.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Was this posted? So Bigelow was offered Bond in the past (Amy Pascal at Sony was trying to push it to her), and she passed.
    http://variety.com/2017/film/features/detroit-kathryn-bigelow-john-boyega-1202511077/
    Bigelow herself has been approached about big-budget comic-book movies, and indeed, she says she has been offered major mainstream films. Former Sony chief Amy Pascal publicly stated that she urged her to shoot a Bond film. So far, at least, Bigelow’s not interested in taking the plunge.

    “Those opportunities are out there, and I’m grateful,” the director says. “I’m just more drawn to a journalistic aspect of film. That opens up very specific avenues as opposed to more comforting avenues. It’s a responsibility I’m excited to pursue, whereas something that has less content is less compelling to me.”
  • I love TWINE. Always have. It's probably my pick for the most underrated film of the series, along with OP.

    The story is great. Renard and Elektra's relationship is fascinating. I love the scene where she's teasing him in bed and he's on the verge of tears because he can't feel anything. Elektra is without a doubt one of the best villains of the series imo. So deliciously manipulative and evil. I can see why people find Renard disappointing but he's a great character in his own right, weirdly sympathetic. The film also does wonders for Bond's character too. This was probably the most vulnerable we'd seen him since OHMSS, and despite overacting at times on the whole I think Brosnan really sells it well. You can tell that once the penny drops and he realizes Elektra is in on it, he's really cut up about it. He's angry at himself for letting his guard down and he's angry that he's not allowed a chance at actual happiness. Then when he kills her at the end it's even more heartbreaking because you get the sense that any vulnerability/humanity he had left died with her. All that's left is this hardened assassin. Plus Elektra's scheme is a great, modern Bond villain scheme.

    I've said this before and some Craig fans seem to be in denial about it but it really is the precursor to the Craig era. A more grounded grittier story a more fleshed out human 007, more M, etc. SF is basically a remake! You can criticize the execution but I hate when people deny any link to the Craig films. It was clear that TWINE was sort of Babs' and P and W's first attempt at doing that sort of Bond. They were just too scared to fully commit to it at the time because of how popular Brosnan's Bond was, so we still get gadgets, OTT action scenes, a ridiculous Bond girl, etc. But personally I didn't mind any of that because I really liked Brosnan's Bond anyway, I didn't think a complete reinvention was necessary at all. I'm not saying that if we didn't have TWINE we wouldn't have CR, I'm just saying that you can see what they really wanted to do start to show here, and that they developed these ideas more from 2006 onwards.

    I also really like the action. The bankers office scene is fantastic and probably Brosnan's finest hour as Bond, the way in which he goes from cheerily spewing cringey lines at cigar girl and exchanging pleasantries with the banker to effortlessly taking out the guards and counting down to putting a bullet in his skull perfectly captures what was great about him. Wolf in sheep's clothing. Charm like Roger Moore but you get the sense that this is an act hiding someone much more dangerous. Anyway that's a great stunt with a brilliant use of the Bond theme, followed by the boat chase which is great OTT fun (and it was nice seeing Bond in action on home turf for pretty much the first time, only other instance I can think of is the auction house in OP and playing golf in GF) and has a brilliant ending: cigar girl blowing herself up instantly sells Renard as a threat, Bond landing on the dome and just barely surviving by the skin of his teeth was fantastic and a great way to open the film (the usually unfappable Brosnan survives basically by pure luck and injures himself in the process). People criticize the ski chase and the factory shootout but at least there's some cool, inventive concepts there (the parahawks, the buzzsaw helicopters). I love the factory shootout in particular and how it uses the different levels really well, there's a great bit where Bond shoots a guy through the ceiling, and when he dives down the stairs to get to the BMW as bullets slam into the ground around him. And I think the finale is great too. I love Bond swimming alongside the sub, so tense. Him getting in and taking out the guard at the last second is a fantastic moment too. And the fight with Renard may have been sloppy but I loved that because of how passionate it felt, you really get the sense that both of them are really angry and emotional. Plus Bond is probably exhausted at this point so it makes sense. Makes a great contrast to the 006 fight: instead of two highly trained professionals using the best of both their skillsets, you get one professional on the brink of exhaustion trying desperately to take out a man who may not be as well trained but has just lost everything he cared about.

    Plus there's Zukofsky and him coming through for Bond at the end. Q's heart breaking final scene. The bit where Bond takes out Zukofsky's bodyguard at the casino, pins him to the bar with his own knife then casually reaches over and takes a refreshing first sip of his martini. Judi Dench on top form when M playing a role in the plot was actually an original concept, with no overly sentimental surrogate mum subtext in sight. MI6 being blown up, again when it was actually an original concept. Bond's gadget filled car turns out to be completely useless.

    I even like Denise Richards. She's perfectly fine in the role imo and makes a great bit of eye candy. Completely unnecessary mind and I can see why people hate her, but like I said I don't mind the tropes so I was okay with it, and at least they had a half decent reason for including her in the story. Bit biased because I mean just look at her, but I also genuinely didn't think she was that bad at all.

    All in all I think it's a great film with great characters and a great story, and even if you're not a fan of how they executed them or how they still refused to break away from the formula despite them, I think it deserves a lot more credit for all the original brilliant ideas it has. Sorry for the essay length post but I always feel compelled to defend TWINE whenever it comes up. One of the best for me.

    In fact even though SF is probably a better film and a better execution of that story (it is basically the same plot), I'd still rank TWINE over it any day of the week. Mostly because SF feels very smug and pretentious. Love how they make a point of mocking the Brosnan era with the exploding pen jab in what's essentially a remake. Plus some of the concepts like M playing a bigger role had been run into the ground by the time of SF, and SF is also hampered by the whole origin story baggage (so glad they could finally break away from that with SP). Both are top ten films but I have to give TWINE the edge.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 6,682
    The source is Waltz himself, who said they couldn't agree on the character and that he was disappointed with how it turned out. Perhaps someone can dig up his actual quotes.

    Here, I found it: commanderbond.net/18999/waltz-on-blofeld.html
    ‘I cannot claim that I’ve really nailed Blofeld. Overall it held water, was okay. But it wasn’t what I’ve been looking for. I was searching for more inspiration.’

    He has been getting this vibe even before shooting started, but by then it was already too late.

    ‘An actor can only be really good when there are shared possibilities.’

    He refuses to be any more specific about it, but it’s clear what he means by that: apparently the chemistry between him and director Sam Mendes didn’t play out the way he would have wished for.

    The magazine has the full interview, of course.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Here, I found it: commanderbond.net/18999/waltz-on-blofeld.html
    ‘I cannot claim that I’ve really nailed Blofeld. Overall it held water, was okay. But it wasn’t what I’ve been looking for. I was searching for more inspiration.’

    He has been getting this vibe even before shooting started, but by then it was already too late.

    ‘An actor can only be really good when there are shared possibilities.’

    He refuses to be any more specific about it, but it’s clear what he means by that: apparently the chemistry between him and director Sam Mendes didn’t play out the way he would have wished for.

    The magazine has the full interview, of course.
    And he wants back? I doubt he'll get the chance, to paraphrase MP. Why would EON bring this guy back when he's taking veiled shots at Sam. He's done imho.
  • I love TWINE. Always have. It's probably my pick for the most underrated film of the series, along with OP.

    The story is great. Renard and Elektra's relationship is fascinating. I love the scene where she's teasing him in bed and he's on the verge of tears because he can't feel anything. Elektra is without a doubt one of the best villains of the series imo. So deliciously manipulative and evil. I can see why people find Renard disappointing but he's a great character in his own right, weirdly sympathetic. The film also does wonders for Bond's character too. This was probably the most vulnerable we'd seen him since OHMSS, and despite overacting at times on the whole I think Brosnan really sells it well. You can tell that once the penny drops and he realizes Elektra is in on it, he's really cut up about it. He's angry at himself for letting his guard down and he's angry that he's not allowed a chance at actual happiness. Then when he kills her at the end it's even more heartbreaking because you get the sense that any vulnerability/humanity he had left died with her. All that's left is this hardened assassin. Plus Elektra's scheme is a great, modern Bond villain scheme.

    I've said this before and some Craig fans seem to be in denial about it but it really is the precursor to the Craig era. A more grounded grittier story a more fleshed out human 007, more M, etc. SF is basically a remake! You can criticize the execution but I hate when people deny any link to the Craig films. It was clear that TWINE was sort of Babs' and P and W's first attempt at doing that sort of Bond. They were just too scared to fully commit to it at the time because of how popular Brosnan's Bond was, so we still get gadgets, OTT action scenes, a ridiculous Bond girl, etc. But personally I didn't mind any of that because I really liked Brosnan's Bond anyway, I didn't think a complete reinvention was necessary at all. I'm not saying that if we didn't have TWINE we wouldn't have CR, I'm just saying that you can see what they really wanted to do start to show here, and that they developed these ideas more from 2006 onwards.

    I also really like the action. The bankers office scene is fantastic and probably Brosnan's finest hour as Bond, the way in which he goes from cheerily spewing cringey lines at cigar girl and exchanging pleasantries with the banker to effortlessly taking out the guards and counting down to putting a bullet in his skull perfectly captures what was great about him. Wolf in sheep's clothing. Charm like Roger Moore but you get the sense that this is an act hiding someone much more dangerous. Anyway that's a great stunt with a brilliant use of the Bond theme, followed by the boat chase which is great OTT fun (and it was nice seeing Bond in action on home turf for pretty much the first time, only other instance I can think of is the auction house in OP and playing golf in GF) and has a brilliant ending: cigar girl blowing herself up instantly sells Renard as a threat, Bond landing on the dome and just barely surviving by the skin of his teeth was fantastic and a great way to open the film (the usually unfappable Brosnan survives basically by pure luck and injures himself in the process). People criticize the ski chase and the factory shootout but at least there's some cool, inventive concepts there (the parahawks, the buzzsaw helicopters). I love the factory shootout in particular and how it uses the different levels really well, there's a great bit where Bond shoots a guy through the ceiling, and when he dives down the stairs to get to the BMW as bullets slam into the ground around him. And I think the finale is great too. I love Bond swimming alongside the sub, so tense. Him getting in and taking out the guard at the last second is a fantastic moment too. And the fight with Renard may have been sloppy but I loved that because of how passionate it felt, you really get the sense that both of them are really angry and emotional. Plus Bond is probably exhausted at this point so it makes sense. Makes a great contrast to the 006 fight: instead of two highly trained professionals using the best of both their skillsets, you get one professional on the brink of exhaustion trying desperately to take out a man who may not be as well trained but has just lost everything he cared about.

    Plus there's Zukofsky and him coming through for Bond at the end. Q's heart breaking final scene. The bit where Bond takes out Zukofsky's bodyguard at the casino, pins him to the bar with his own knife then casually reaches over and takes a refreshing first sip of his martini. Judi Dench on top form when M playing a role in the plot was actually an original concept, with no overly sentimental surrogate mum subtext in sight. MI6 being blown up, again when it was actually an original concept. Bond's gadget filled car turns out to be completely useless.

    I even like Denise Richards. She's perfectly fine in the role imo and makes a great bit of eye candy. Completely unnecessary mind and I can see why people hate her, but like I said I don't mind the tropes so I was okay with it, and at least they had a half decent reason for including her in the story. Bit biased because I mean just look at her, but I also genuinely didn't think she was that bad at all.

    All in all I think it's a great film with great characters and a great story, and even if you're not a fan of how they executed them or how they still refused to break away from the formula despite them, I think it deserves a lot more credit for all the original brilliant ideas it has. Sorry for the essay length post but I always feel compelled to defend TWINE whenever it comes up. One of the best for me.

    In fact even though SF is probably a better film and a better execution of that story (it is basically the same plot), I'd still rank TWINE over it any day of the week. Mostly because SF feels very smug and pretentious. Love how they make a point of mocking the Brosnan era with the exploding pen jab in what's essentially a remake. Plus some of the concepts like M playing a bigger role had been run into the ground by the time of SF, and SF is also hampered by the whole origin story baggage (so glad they could finally break away from that with SP). Both are top ten films but I have to give TWINE the edge.

    Wow. So much yes to everything you just wrote, @thelivingroyale. You've captured my own thoughts on TWINE wonderfully. I sometimes gripe about tonal imbalances in the Bond films where they clumsily veer from the comedic and the fantastical to the dark and the gritty, but TWINE is a rare example where you have a Bond adventure with heart and drama, characters who have inner conflicts beyond world domination, and yet all the fun and the fantasy, the gadgets, the babes, the jokes, the explosions, and it all melds with nary a hiccup. And all those class moments you mentioned: Q's heartbreaking goodbye, pinning Zukovsky's bodyguard to the bar, the stylish caviar factory shootout. I may have to write my own ode to TWINE one day, but for now, it's good to read some love from a fan who gets TWINE like I do. (Even if it's here in the MI6 free-for-all thread ;).)
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 386
    Yes, enjoy the passionate defences of TWINE.

    Good reading.
  • Posts: 6,682
    I now have an irresistible urge to go watch The World Is Not Enough.
  • I may join you! I'm well due!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    TWINE is a very solid Bond film. Now, back to Bond 25.
  • With pleasure, @jake24 ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2017 Posts: 5,921
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I would like to see Waltz get a second chance as Blofeld. Give him something to sink his teeth into and show his more ruthless side.

    That begins with a great script. A talented actor can only do so much.

    I disagree. Ewan McGregor was great in the execrable SW prequels. Some actors are so transcendent that they can direct themselves.
    antovolk wrote: »
    Was this posted? So Bigelow was offered Bond in the past (Amy Pascal at Sony was trying to push it to her), and she passed.
    http://variety.com/2017/film/features/detroit-kathryn-bigelow-john-boyega-1202511077/
    Bigelow herself has been approached about big-budget comic-book movies, and indeed, she says she has been offered major mainstream films. Former Sony chief Amy Pascal publicly stated that she urged her to shoot a Bond film. So far, at least, Bigelow’s not interested in taking the plunge.

    “Those opportunities are out there, and I’m grateful,” the director says. “I’m just more drawn to a journalistic aspect of film. That opens up very specific avenues as opposed to more comforting avenues. It’s a responsibility I’m excited to pursue, whereas something that has less content is less compelling to me.”

    Bigelow is a diplomatic person and wonderful director. I'd love to see what she would do with a Bond film. Sadly, it's likely not to be.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Waltz was okay but let down a bit by crummy writing and poor direction.

    Waltz himself admits he didn't really nail it. There was also tension between Waltz and Mendes about how to portray the character.

    A bit of an anticlimax if you ask me and of course Brofeld is a travesty but not something Waltz can be blamed for.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Waltz was okay but let down a bit by crummy writing and poor direction.

    Waltz himself admits he didn't really nail it. There was also tension between Waltz and Mendes about how to portray the character.

    A bit of an anticlimax if you ask me and of course Brofeld is a travesty but not something Waltz can be blamed for.

    The problem remains that if they bring back Waltz, they bring back the foster brother as well.
    Speaking strictly personally, I can't even tell you how sick ,and also embarrassed as a Bond fan, this pathetic rape of Flemings work makes me.
    I say, burry this rendition of Blofeld, dig a deep hole for him and let the grass grow. And let it grow high!

    I can see a version of Blofeld in Bond 25 where he's mad at Bond about being defeated, not about the foster-brother issues (which should rightfully be glossed over, even moreso than Swann).
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 2,081
    mattjoes wrote: »
    The source is Waltz himself, who said they couldn't agree on the character and that he was disappointed with how it turned out. Perhaps someone can dig up his actual quotes.

    Here, I found it: commanderbond.net/18999/waltz-on-blofeld.html
    ‘I cannot claim that I’ve really nailed Blofeld. Overall it held water, was okay. But it wasn’t what I’ve been looking for. I was searching for more inspiration.’

    He has been getting this vibe even before shooting started, but by then it was already too late.

    ‘An actor can only be really good when there are shared possibilities.’

    He refuses to be any more specific about it, but it’s clear what he means by that: apparently the chemistry between him and director Sam Mendes didn’t play out the way he would have wished for.

    The magazine has the full interview, of course.

    Yeah, well, that tends to be the case. There's only so much actors can do, and collaborations can't always work.

    Thanks for finding that, I hadn't seen it before. He doesn't say that much, yet kinda does, and that's interesting. If those comments were definitely about Mendes (I don't think it's 100% certain from that, though indeed likely), then I guess they won't be working together again, probably on anything. And if the problem was differences between their views on what to do with the character, then no surprise it felt unconvincing and sorta half-arsed. (I previously assumed it was mostly bad writing that caused that.)
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    For anyone state side:

    Halle Berry is on Jimmy Fallon tonight. Wonder if she'll say anything about Craig.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    For anyone state side:

    Halle Berry is on Jimmy Fallon tonight. Wonder if she'll say anything about Craig.
    She's promoting her new movie, Kidnap.
  • Posts: 12,243
    I feel like Blofeld will be in Bond 25 in at least some capacity - unless Craig is coming back for two more, in which case he may not return until Bond 26. But I feel fairly certain they will use him again assuming Craig is coming back. Whether or not Waltz comes back is far less certain - especially with Mendes out of the picture.

    I'm neutral about Madeleine, but I'd rather the next film not even feature her. Just drop her out of the next story, like it used to be in the golden age Bond films.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I feel like Blofeld will be in Bond 25 in at least some capacity - unless Craig is coming back for two more, in which case he may not return until Bond 26. But I feel fairly certain they will use him again assuming Craig is coming back. Whether or not Waltz comes back is far less certain - especially with Mendes out of the picture.

    I'm neutral about Madeleine, but I'd rather the next film not even feature her. Just drop her out of the next story, like it used to be in the golden age Bond films.
    +1
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    For anyone state side:

    Halle Berry is on Jimmy Fallon tonight. Wonder if she'll say anything about Craig.
    She's promoting her new movie, Kidnap.

    Ohhh, forgot about that movie.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Okay so there is differance of opinion within bond fans but would I be correct in saying most of us want to see an ohmss yolt style film for bond 25?
  • Posts: 12,243
    YOLT-esque sounds good.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Not me. At least not playing the Tracy angle where Bond again suffers from the loss of another one and goes emotionally rampant all over again.

    Although, using the other storyline elements of YOLT like Blofeld in his castle working on something deadly, and for Bond to thwart it, I'm all for that.
  • Posts: 12,243
    I don't think many of us want to see OHMSS-esque right now after the melodrama of SP - coming from someone who still likes the film. I'm really craving something more like a non-DAF Connery feature. YOLT-esque could definitely be awesome.
  • Posts: 17,241
    I just want some fun with B25, not silly fun, but Bond blockbuster fun. A well executed TWINE, perhaps. Not shy of fun moments, but still a decent story with a dangerous villain.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I just want some fun with B25, not silly fun, but Bond blockbuster fun. A well executed TWINE, perhaps. Not shy of fun moments, but still a decent story with a dangerous villain.

    This. All of this!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Craig SHOULD be preparing for two more films dealing with Blofeld and wrapping up his tenure.

    Whether this is what is actually going on behind the scenes is another matter. EON and Craig's inability to get their ducks lined up is pretty pathetic IMO.

    You get the sense that they're stuck in a quandary about what to do because obviously the DC era has a story arc which it would be strange to now diverge from. But how do they plan the end of the DC era if Dan isn't prepared to commit to 2 more films within a reasonable time span?

    The problem seems to be that EON lack a clear vision and this has necessitated Dan stepping into a producer role, which in turn has given him too much leverage and power.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    Craig SHOULD be preparing for two more films dealing with Blofeld and wrapping up his tenure.

    Whether this is what is actually going on behind the scenes is another matter. EON and Craig's inability to get their ducks lined up is pretty pathetic IMO.

    You get the sense that they're stuck in a quandary about what to do because obviously the DC era has a story arc which it would be strange to now diverge from. But how do they plan the end of the DC era if Dan isn't prepared to commit to 2 more films within a reasonable time span?

    The problem seems to be that EON lack a clear vision and this has necessitated Dan stepping into a producer role, which in turn has given him too much leverage and power.

    Well, earlier this year I wrote this article @Getafix for Bill Koenig's spy blog. It would be good to revisit this. And not just us, but also Neal Purvis & Robert Wade andddd co-producer Daniel Craig:

    https://spycommandfeatures.wordpress.com/the-spectre-of-bond-25/

    Because I agree with you that the producers should maintain a certain stricter creative control. They become a bit....too 'liberal' if you ask me. Gone are the days when Barbara and Michael say to Neal & Robert en Daniel: I'm sorry guys, but we can't go through with...such a storyline.
  • Posts: 386
    I feel that we have entered an era of four-year intervals.

    Babs seems to welcome/need help from her creative principals, which of course adds layers of complication.

    Combine that with inevitable industrial obstacles, along with interest in other projects, and I just can't see EON producing Bonds with the regularity we pine for.
  • Posts: 17,241
    Wouldn't be surprised if four-year intervals is the new thing. Will be interesting to see the interval between Craig's last film, and the first with a new actor - and the intervals between each film with the new guy. Wouldn't mind a three-year interval, though. That could be doable.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Off topic #1 : I also like TWINE ,and love the caviar factory scene.
    Off topic #2 : Waltz is a damn good actor and could nail ESB given the right circumstances and being allowed to express his talents.

    On topic : I think if Craig was to go it would free up the Bond team to go with fresh ideas which are not linked to SP,a new actor with enthusiasm in a standalone film as per the past.
    It also might re-introduce the 2 year gap once more.

    I still think Craig is the problem now,with the storyline they have with him at the moment,they are boxed into a corner.
  • Posts: 17,241
    They really need to wrap the storyline up now, don't they? B25 needs a hell of a script, in my opinion.
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