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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited November 2016 Posts: 6,844
    Must wholeheartedly disagree about the hand-to-hand combat in TND being weak. To the contrary it is downright fantastic, as are the film's action sequences. The soundproof room fight is played purely for comedy—Bond smashing the guards with a microphone stand and a cello? Wai Lin's bike shop fight is full of old-school Hong Kong-style fight choreography, and the Stamper fight at the end is as purely entertaining as they come.

    Also, as mcdonbb mentioned, Elswit's choreography was indeed fantastic. Something in the vein of TND—inventive and streamlined action sequences, ample fights staged throughout, big grand-scale plot, ticking clock finale, just the right amount of drama and comedy—would positively be a breath of fresh air at this junction in the series.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2016 Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    Spottiswoode did a decent enough job with TND. It was 'Bondian' enough. If he had a better female cast, tried to be a little more innovative rather than derivative in plot, and injected a little more old school romantic flavour rather than modernesque industrial feel, I would have much preferred that film.

    His action directing was spot on, but the hand to hand combat was weak, as was the glamour aspect, which GE nailed in Monaco for instance.

    I'll agree with that.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd rather have Roger Spottiswoode return over another Mendes Bond.

    Spottiswoode is known to be indecisive and that caused a lot of issues and friction on TND. I know people who worked on it and found it a strain due to the man at the helm.

    That could explain why he was never asked back. At the time I had been disappointed in TND, especially after GE, but now I have more appreciation for it. I never felt there was anything particularly wrong with his direction. TND had decent pacing, was the first Bond since DAF to clock in just under 2 hrs, and certainly felt like a Bond film. I tend to see GE and TND as the '90's equivalent to TSWLM and MR.
    After the tearjerker ending of SF and the brotherly love of SP, I'd be more than happy if B25 went the route of something like TND. I think it's okay to have a popcorn Bond film once in awhile.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The soundproof room fight scene could have been good, but it wasn't. And neither was any of the subsequent fights in the Brosnan era until Casino Royale came along. I mean, speaking as a fan of the Brosnan Bond, one of the major downers in his tenure was the close quarters combat choreography. It was quite decent in GoldenEye, and his fight with Alec was brilliantly gritty, violent and fast-paced... And then what do they give us in Tomorrow Never Dies? Bond, a professional special operative merely struggling with a henchman on top of a crane or whatever it was, punching the goon like a grandfather in his 80s... What were they thinking really?

    It's not that bad.
    I'd love to agree, mate, but it kind of is that bad. The way he was swinging the punch like he was high or something. The Craig Bond would have incapacitated that guard with one headbutt.
    Agreed. It really declined post-GE, and GE's fight was one of the best since FRWL so I was quite disappointed. That fight atop the conveyor belts at the paper factory was disgraceful. DH2 blew it away 7 years earlier at the airport.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd rather have Roger Spottiswoode return over another Mendes Bond.

    Spottiswoode is known to be indecisive and that caused a lot of issues and friction on TND. I know people who worked on it and found it a strain due to the man at the helm.

    That could explain why he was never asked back. At the time I had been disappointed in TND, especially after GE, but now I have more appreciation for it. I never felt there was anything particularly wrong with his direction. TND had decent pacing, was the first Bond since DAF to clock in just under 2 hrs, and certainly felt like a Bond film. I tend to see GE and TND as the '90's equivalent to TSWLM and MR.
    After the tearjerker ending of SF and the brotherly love of SP, I'd be more than happy if B25 went the route of something like TND. I think it's okay to have a popcorn Bond film once in awhile.
    +1
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,770
    What about Roger Mitchell who nearly directed Quantum of Solace or Michael Apted who did direct The World is not Enough.

    I honestly don't think Mendes will come back as he tends to do family stories specifically older generation vs younger generations and we had the mom battle of Skyfall and the father/ brother angle in Spectre unless they do a bond child thing in Shatterhand (let's be honest if Mendes comes back there is no need to keep the title in secret as that is the only S title from Fleming left and likely what Mendes will call his third film) which is possible... stupid but possible and technically Fleming accurate (yes the man was just that a man and occasionally did stupid things with his own character the ending of you only live twice for example) I doubt Mendes will see anything he can really bring to the table.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If Mendes comes back, Irma Bunt will be Blofeld's daughter seeking revenge from Bond for imprisoning her daddy-o.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Michael Apted who did direct The World is not Enough.
    X_X

    Oh dear. Please no.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,770
    Actually all kidding aside I am now actually afraid Mendes will return and the film will deal with Bond trying to settle down with Swann and realizing he just can't because her and possibly their kid will be in danger to often...

    Well at least Shatterhand is a Fleming title and their might be some good moments.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The soundproof room fight scene could have been good, but it wasn't. And neither was any of the subsequent fights in the Brosnan era until Casino Royale came along. I mean, speaking as a fan of the Brosnan Bond, one of the major downers in his tenure was the close quarters combat choreography. It was quite decent in GoldenEye, and his fight with Alec was brilliantly gritty, violent and fast-paced... And then what do they give us in Tomorrow Never Dies? Bond, a professional special operative merely struggling with a henchman on top of a crane or whatever it was, punching the goon like a grandfather in his 80s... What were they thinking really?

    It's not that bad.
    I'd love to agree, mate, but it kind of is that bad. The way he was swinging the punch like he was high or something. The Craig Bond would have incapacitated that guard with one headbutt.
    Agreed. It really declined post-GE, and GE's fight was one of the best since FRWL so I was quite disappointed. That fight atop the conveyor belts at the paper factory was disgraceful. DH2 blew it away 7 years earlier at the airport.

    I think of those fights- the soundproof room and the paper factory as similar to Ivan and Boris or the fight at Stacey's mansion. So we had gone from a Connery-esque FRWL style fight to Moore. Not much balance in between during the Brosnan era to give him his own individual style, with maybe the exception of the Manticore. In fact, neither TWINE nor DAD had any decent hand to hand combat scenes IMO. The Craig era has corrected this for the most part, although some may argue his fights are a bit too Jason Bourne. I think the fight with Hinx was a pretty good balance really. I'd like to see something akin to the Franks elevator fight in B25.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The fight choreography in the Bourne films and the Craig Bond films are different styles, though. Bourne tends to be more realistic while Bond is given a thrown-in of mixture of fighting styles which makes it cinematic rather than realistic.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The fight choreography in the Bourne films and the Craig Bond films are different styles, though. Bourne tends to be more realistic while Bond is given a thrown-in of mixture of fighting styles which makes it cinematic rather than realistic.
    I agree for the most part, with the exception being Slate. That was totally Bourne, right down to the folded book/magazine.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The fight choreography in the Bourne films and the Craig Bond films are different styles, though. Bourne tends to be more realistic while Bond is given a thrown-in of mixture of fighting styles which makes it cinematic rather than realistic.
    I agree for the most part, with the exception being Slate. That was totally Bourne, right down to the folded book/magazine.
    Yes, the fight with Slate was totally Bourne. I just wish it didn't have the shaky-cam motion.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The fight choreography in the Bourne films and the Craig Bond films are different styles, though. Bourne tends to be more realistic while Bond is given a thrown-in of mixture of fighting styles which makes it cinematic rather than realistic.
    I agree for the most part, with the exception being Slate. That was totally Bourne, right down to the folded book/magazine.

    I definitely had Slate in mind. I have also heard people compare the stairwell fight to Bourne as well. Not sure I agree with that though. I think the stairwell was one of Craig's best and very Bondian actually.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Yes, I agree. The stairwell fight was a real return to form. It wasn't so close quarters. Rather, it had perspective and context as well as tightly filmed combat. There were long range establishing shots as well as bruising punches. I could have sworn that Craig stuntman whacked the back of his head when he fell backwards against the wall. I always wince even now when I see it. It's like when the Madeline stuntwoman looks like she's been hit in the face when Hinx kicks the table in SP.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Yeah the stairwell fight was brilliant. It's only really QoS to me that feels a bit Bourne influenced, which isn't surprising since they hired a 2nd unit director and editor who had both worked on Bourne.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    The fight choreography in the Bourne films and the Craig Bond films are different styles, though. Bourne tends to be more realistic while Bond is given a thrown-in of mixture of fighting styles which makes it cinematic rather than realistic.
    I agree for the most part, with the exception being Slate. That was totally Bourne, right down to the folded book/magazine.

    I definitely had Slate in mind. I have also heard people compare the stairwell fight to Bourne as well. Not sure I agree with that though. I think the stairwell was one of Craig's best and very Bondian actually.

    I agree and I enjoy the Slate fight too.. ends in a shock moment which tended to dominate Craig's first two films. Although Brosnan had his shock moments in TWINE dumping the baddie in the trash bin and pushing that thug in a wheelchair into the wall in DAD.

    Skyfall featured less but that was ok the shock of th he shock was wearing off. I don't really remember what Bond did in SP except some extraordinary marksmanship.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The strairwell fight, again, is different from the Bourne choreography. Bourne's fights tend to lean on one fighting style. From what I spotted with the fight between Bond and Obanno, it had at least three different fighting styles combined into one.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Your're all going to get told off for de-railing the thread again !! b :)>-
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    We're going off-topic again.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Gary Powell and Ben Cooke should return for Bond 25.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    Spottiswoode is a hack, and TND is the single worst Bond movie of all time. The franchise can not survive another TND.
  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,107
    So, Quentin Tarantino still wants to direct Bond....Bond in Tarantino style...

    Maybe not. Though it would be different. Lot of talk, movie inspired by mix of different gengres and seventies grindhouse or what-you-call-it.

    Oh and the soundtrack. David Bowie's 'the man who sold the world', when we have montage of Craig putting on his warpaint and choosing his arsenal to take out Brofeld and Irma Bunt.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Spottiswoode is a hack, and TND is the single worst Bond movie of all time. The franchise can not survive another TND.
    Now now. That, if anything, is a misleading message at best. ;)
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Spottiswoode is a hack, and TND is the single worst Bond movie of all time. The franchise can not survive another TND.

    I didn't realize it was Opposite Day!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Superintendent wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Rome and Austria are the highlights, but tonally feel like they are from entirely different movies.

    I guess you could say that, but IMO the SPECTRE meeting and Mr. White scene are very much in line, tonally.

    The problem is the tonal whiplash after the Spectre meeting courtesy of the jokey car chase.

    Yes, and it's repeated again with the White scene followed by the cringeworthy plane chase. In a way Morocco is the most tonally consistent part of the movie.
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Dear Lord, I hope Craig doesn't pull Mendes back for a third.

    Lets hope he already pulled Steven Soderbergh in.

    Well if that were the case, Soderbergh could have the thing shot in three weeks and released early next year. ;)

    I haven't seen as much of Soderbergh's filmography as I would like to make an informed decision on yay or nay for him for Bond, but I do recall him lavishing praise upon OHMSS on his website, which is always a good sign in a director.

    I'd get behind Soderbergh. His involvement would pretty much guarantee a lean-and-mean movie, and maybe Craig would like a shorter shooting schedule for Bond.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Soderbergh would be great for a Bond film. If he'd make a straightforward Bond film with a brief satirical tone (not parody, spoof, comedy or anything before anyone attacks) in the vein of the Ocean's Trilogy, I'd be more than happy. And David Holmes would make hell of a Bond composer.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    SharkBait wrote: »
    So, Quentin Tarantino still wants to direct Bond....Bond in Tarantino style...

    Maybe not. Though it would be different. Lot of talk, movie inspired by mix of different gengres and seventies grindhouse or what-you-call-it.

    Oh and the soundtrack. David Bowie's 'the man who sold the world', when we have montage of Craig putting on his warpaint and choosing his arsenal to take out Brofeld and Irma Bunt.

    Tarantino doing a Bond film would be amazing. He proved it with Inglourious Basterds & Hateful Eight imo.

    However it would probably only work with a new actor.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    A Quentin Bond film would be amazingly edgy, and most probably terribly charismatic. One for the ages. We could also expect great dialogue.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited November 2016 Posts: 15,423
    But, we'd also have over the top theatrics which might make it a bit ridiculous for a Bond film. I don't know, but Tarantino makes the cinematography too theatrically racy. Everyone will sound and look like an Elliot Carver and Raoul Silva on steroids.
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