No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ouch.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ouch.

    I jest of course. It's my least favourite film but it has its moments.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited November 2016 Posts: 15,423
    DAF had a great MacGuffin. But, the film's boring story made it useless. However, like the poster above says, it has its moments, like the dialogues... And my favourite scene, Connery climbing onto Willard Whyte's penthouse.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ouch.

    I jest of course. It's my least favourite film but it has its moments.
    +1. That said, let's not turn this thread into a DAF deconstruction again.
  • Posts: 4,325
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ouch.

    I jest of course. It's my least favourite film but it has its moments.
    +1. That said, let's not turn this thread into a DAF deconstruction again.

    I missed it the first time - I sort of dip in and out of this thread as Bond 25 ain't being made any time soon.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Craig's 5th Bond film really needs to have the Guy Hamilton-esque joy. It should be inventive when it comes down to the action and stunts. In such a way that critics say "Wauw! We haven't seen this before in a Bond film!".

    But you can't have that, because people nowadays just want to see the same things again and again. EON did something new with Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, and people started whining "where's the action?"; "too depressing"; "we want over the top villains!"; "bring Moneypenny and Q back" and so on.

    Same with other franchises. Jurassic World and Star Wars 7 were massive successes just because they were remakes of the first chapter of each saga.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Walecs wrote: »
    Craig's 5th Bond film really needs to have the Guy Hamilton-esque joy. It should be inventive when it comes down to the action and stunts. In such a way that critics say "Wauw! We haven't seen this before in a Bond film!".

    But you can't have that, because people nowadays just want to see the same things again and again. EON did something new with Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, and people started whining "where's the action?"; "too depressing"; "we want over the top villains!"; "bring Moneypenny and Q back" and so on.

    Same with other franchises. Jurassic World and Star Wars 7 were massive successes just because they were remakes of the first chapter of each saga.

    Star Wars traded on nostalgia certainly, with many people who saw it in 1977 reliving that memory. Business wise it made sense, people wanted to reconnect to the original Star Wars world after the dreadful prequels. Bond is a bit different - certainly it has traded on nostalgia since the Connery films - Mendes' many references in Spectre is testament to that. But whereas Star Wars is just another trilogy with spin offs, Bond comes out fairly regularly, often with 2 year gaps between films (although this hasn't been the case recently). If the series is to survive another 50 odd years with the same level of popularity it has to navigate a very tricky line between adhering to the well established Bond formula (or cocktail if you will) and doing something different. In fact you could say that Skyfall, with its theme of old and new, tackled this issue head on - only to completely revert back to type in the next film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,971
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ouch.

    I jest of course. It's my least favourite film but it has its moments.
    +1. That said, let's not turn this thread into a DAF deconstruction again.

    I missed it the first time - I sort of dip in and out of this thread as Bond 25 ain't being made any time soon.


    That's a good point. If Craig makes a 5th film, it will be 2019 at the earliest. He will overtake Moore for longest time on the throne, and be the oldest Bond performance since Moore in 1985. Seems like only yesterday he was the rookie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I like Craig, but I really want Moore to retain the longest serving (continuous run) Bond title. He deserves it, due to his unyielding dedication as an ambassador for the franchise.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    bondjames wrote: »
    I like Craig, but I really want Moore to retain the longest serving (continuous run) Bond title. He deserves it, due to his unyielding dedication as an ambassador for the franchise.

    Can't Moore just settle for having been Bond more times than anyone else?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I like Craig, but I really want Moore to retain the longest serving (continuous run) Bond title. He deserves it, due to his unyielding dedication as an ambassador for the franchise.

    Can't Moore just settle for having been Bond more times than anyone else?
    He's technically tied with Connery on that one (if one includes NSNA). Connery also arguably has the longest run (but not continuous) from 62-83. That's why I'd like him to retain the continuous run title.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited November 2016 Posts: 11,139
    suavejmf wrote: »

    More historically inaccurate blackwashing of Shakespeare for no reason (other than to be modern and PC) I see in the cast.

    Please. Oyelowo played Henry VI 16 years ago; the first black man to do so, which netted his talents great reviews from initial sceptics. The guy is more than capable of playing a theatrical run of Othello. Meanwhile, throughout cinematic history till today, you have Hollywood still unceremoniously going to town with the whitewashing. If you're so concerned about historical accuracy then perhaps you should be bothered that Emilia, Desdemona and Bianca aren't being portrayed by men and of course never mind the fact that Othello being a Moor isn't a white guy in the first place.
  • suavejmf wrote: »
    nikos78 wrote: »
    Don't know if anyone else has posted this, but Othello's site refers to Craig as "007 incumbent". One more subtle hint that nothing has changed, then. http://www.newyorkcitytheatre.com/theaters/newyorktheaterworkshop/othello.php

    More historically inaccurate blackwashing of Shakespeare for no reason (other than to be modern and PC) I see in the cast.

    You're going to have a hard time expecting historical accuracy from Shakespeare at any rate, but I'd just like to point out that Othello is a Moorish general and has historically been portrayed as black or North African in appearance, although usually with white actors in blackface before the mid twentieth century. What you're complaining about is actually a rare example of historical accuracy in the bard's work.

    On a related note, it's actually a policy of the Royal Shakespeare company that race should have no bearing on who fills their roles - ergo, the best actor gets the part regardless of how they look. I went to a performance of Julius Caeser with a black actor in the lead role and it was easily the best portrayal I've seen on stage. When I'm watching a bunch of English actors pretend to be Roman politicians speaking 16 century English, whether they have strictly the same ancestry as the people they playing is really neither here nor there.

    I think that you'll probably enjoy life more if you relax a bit and stop looking for a "PC" conspiracy in everything.
  • Posts: 9,737
    Back on topic so between now and this time next year might we get at least the dam writers!!! At this rate it could be Adrian Turner and the user on here who wanted bond to fight Martians as long as we had some real news...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    No news till mid-2017. ;)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    doubleoego wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »

    More historically inaccurate blackwashing of Shakespeare for no reason (other than to be modern and PC) I see in the cast.

    Please. Oyelowo played Henry VI 16 years ago; the first black man to do so, which netted his talents great reviews from initial sceptics. The guy is more than capable of playing a theatrical run of Othello. Meanwhile, throughout cinematic history till today, you have Hollywood still unceremoniously going to town with the whitewashing. If you're so concerned about historical accuracy then perhaps you should be bothered that Emilia, Desdemona and Bianca aren't being portrayed by men and of course never mind the fact that Othello being a Moor isn't a white guy in the first place.

    Ah there is a difference there. Whitewashing is (nowadays) simply down to economics. E.g. If Hollywood is making a Hollywood film about Jesus they cast a white actor as there are no bankable Asian actors for starring roles in western funded films....i.e. Studio funding and audience appeal in the west. The fact of the matter is that the east watch our films but we have little interest in theirs.....america make the highest grossing and popular entertainment globally. However, casting say a black actor as Sherlock Holmes is just being PC as the character is white and the setting of the story means he would be white anyhow.
  • Posts: 9,737
    No news till mid-2017. ;)
    To be honest the video games is what help eases the lack of films but sigh
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Risico007 wrote: »
    No news till mid-2017. ;)
    To be honest the video games is what help eases the lack of films but sigh
    Video games are tied to Eon/Danjaq/MGM. So, no games... But, try the comics... They are brilliantly great.
  • Connery, Moore, and Brosnan all ended their Bond careers with romps. I guess it would be nice to see Craig end his Bond career with a romp also - with more humor than normal.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Craigs last film wont be a romp. Its gonna be a hybrid mix of CR with some dramatic tone akin to Skyfall. SP was Craigs TB, TSWLM, DAD
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If the dramatic tone from SF returns, then I am sure that Bond film will hit the rock bottom of my list.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,891
    I started to re-watch SPECTRE the other night, wanting so badly to enjoy it more than I have with previous viewings. There are some nice elements but as a whole it still disappoints.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,891
    Oh, and I turned it off after the escape from Blofeld's lair; I just couldn't make through the final act. :/
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    talos7 wrote: »
    Oh, and I turned it off after the escape from Blofeld's lair; I just couldn't make through the final act. :/

    I kinda like the third act ...it's different for Bond.

    Second act ends too easily ...and so does final I guess as well.

    I've been watching SP in parts on YouTube and some of the parts are quite good...
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    talos7 wrote: »
    Oh, and I turned it off after the escape from Blofeld's lair; I just couldn't make through the final act. :/
    Same for me. I greatly enjoy the PTS, the Q and Moneypenny scenes, Rome. Especially enjoy the Mr.White showdown, L'americain and the train fight.

    So far, so good! But all the last times I watched SP I turn it off once they left the train.

    Can't they just start B25 with Madeleine waking up, finding Bond under the shower and realizing everything else that actually happened in SP after falling asleep in L'americain was just a dream ;-) I would find that way more entertaining than what we actually got for the third act so far ...
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,891
    Lol, ah yes, the ole dream escape plan for misguided plotlines! ;)
  • Some are still hoping Bond will wake up hung over on M's couch the morning after she says, "You're bloody well not sleeping here!"

    (Either that or drunk and groggy at the bar next to Ronson. ;) )
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    The 3rd Act of Spectre is so bad, I actually liked the idea of the PTS opening on Bond 25 with Bond still in the chair with the drills in his neck with no sense of who he is. Steal a little form the Start of TMWGG novel where Bond arrives back in London brainwashed trying to kill M.
  • I understand people’s gripes with Spectre’s structuring. The problem is that the film is so bloated and full of portent, however, it also strives to be a piece of frivolous entertainment. The styles don’t really gel.

    So what you’re left with is a an oddly bitty film that never quite lives up to its potential. There are moments and scenes which work incredibly well but the entire rhythm of the piece is a little off and the film never truly flows.

    - The Mexico portion is incredible. It’s the apex of the movie.
    - The Rome segment is great fun – good old-fashioned escapism.
    - The Austria stuff is serious furrowed-brow character stuff (which I love and suits Craig perfect – the Mr. White scene and Hoffler Klinik stuff is fantastic. However, the plane chase is nonsensical and has major logic issues)
    - Morocco is great in-depth character stuff.
    - Blofeld’s lair is pretty awful– just doesn’t work. Clearly there were MAJOR script issues here.
    - London finale is a tad low-key and uneventful. I actually appreciate it for that reason, it’s slightly more claustrophic and haunting. But I really don’t like those tacked on scenes between M and C – it’s so badly written.

    Blofeld is the biggest issue in the Spectre script. He presented too many problems that they just couldn’t fix at the writing stage…..But there’s a silver lining…….

    He didn’t die. So there still is the possibility of bringing him back…..but should they? Could Christoph return? I feel these are the questions that EON are grappling with currently. Hence, why they haven’t announced anything in a year.

    I’d love to see a true adaptation of Fleming’s YOLT. But I also sorta hope we get an original film…
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,138
    I understand people’s gripes with Spectre’s structuring. The problem is that the film is so bloated and full of portent, however, it also strives to be a piece of frivolous entertainment. The styles don’t really gel.

    So what you’re left with is a an oddly bitty film that never quite lives up to its potential. There are moments and scenes which work incredibly well but the entire rhythm of the piece is a little off and the film never truly flows.

    - The Mexico portion is incredible. It’s the apex of the movie.
    - The Rome segment is great fun – good old-fashioned escapism.
    - The Austria stuff is serious furrowed-brow character stuff (which I love and suits Craig perfect – the Mr. White scene and Hoffler Klinik stuff is fantastic. However, the plane chase is nonsensical and has major logic issues)
    - Morocco is great in-depth character stuff.
    - Blofeld’s lair is pretty awful– just doesn’t work. Clearly there were MAJOR script issues here.
    - London finale is a tad low-key and uneventful. I actually appreciate it for that reason, it’s slightly more claustrophic and haunting. But I really don’t like those tacked on scenes between M and C – it’s so badly written.

    Blofeld is the biggest issue in the Spectre script. He presented too many problems that they just couldn’t fix at the writing stage…..But there’s a silver lining…….

    He didn’t die. So there still is the possibility of bringing him back…..but should they? Could Christoph return? I feel these are the questions that EON are grappling with currently. Hence, why they haven’t announced anything in a year.

    I’d love to see a true adaptation of Fleming’s YOLT. But I also sorta hope we get an original film…

    Waltz and Seydoux have said they would do more, but only if Dan was Bond.

    What was reported at the time http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/631378/daniel-craig-two-more-bond-films-christoph-waltz-blofeld

    he has since said he did not think he nailed the Character, that it had not been discussed as EON did not know what Studio would be producing the next film never mind forming a cast. That was in September.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/james-bond-christopher-waltz-unsure-about-return-as-blofeld-says-he-filed-to-nail-the-role-in-a7231556.html
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