No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited February 2018 Posts: 15,423
    00Agent wrote: »
    Don't worry about Bond. If there's a setback, they'll always make a comeback.

    The Mission: Impossible film franchise is highlighted for Tom Cruise's stunts mainly.

    The Bond franchise is celebrated for the Bond character and his gallantry mainly.

    So, no matter the circumstances, Bond will never go out of popularity. Not when there's a change in regime with more vision. The public demand for the character is also quite high, so I'm not quaking in my boots about Bond's future.
    Exactly.
    Mission Impossible is all about Tom, his Hollywood status and his newfound reputation as a suicidal maniac.

    Bond on the other hand reinvents itself every decade with a new face, and has done so for 60 years. A trick that MI has to pull of successfully first.
    Precisely!
    patb wrote: »
    "Exactly.
    Mission Impossible is all about Tom, his Hollywood status and his newfound reputation as a suicidal maniac."

    Thead drift ; sorry. If that were true, his other action movies would perform well which they dont. There is more to MI than Tom Cruise IMHO just as there was more to James Bond than Sean C.
    Edge of Tomorrow did very well, and Oblivion received moderate reviews. Regarding films like Knight and Day, there wasn't much of a story that would capture the public interest because it wasn't anything groundbreaking. I personally love that one a lot, but there's not much in it to die for, to be honest. The M:I film franchise is Cruise's main focus and he's putting a lot of thought in them as opposed to just appearing in them, totting guns away, swing a few punches, jump from a sidewalk to another, and wait for the director to yell "Cut!" and be done with it.
  • Posts: 4,600
    My impression is that the thought is coming from McQuarrie - it's his input that has taken the franchise to another level. We need to stop, we are way off topic
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    actually, patb, this is very timely-- that trailer (and granted, as we all know, a trailer can be, or not be, indicative of the final film), looks incredible.

    M:I's competition, including EoN, should take a careful look to see what their opponents are up to; and that's not so they do a copy-cat, but rather how the producers are spending money to deliver as many fans into the seats as they can.

    I usually shrug when I see another M:I film being released.

    This trailer actually got me excited.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,087
    Returning to Bond 25, what if the next one really is mediocre, as all last entries in long running Bond actors tend to be. Then all of a sudden the last good (considered good) Bond film was Skyfall, and that was ancient history for the kids growing up now. And how long will it take to get another reboot off the ground, 3 years minimum? I disagree that Bond popularity can be taken for granted. I hopes Babs doesn't have the same mindset as some members here, that everything will be alright on the night and not to worry. We are dangerously close to needing another TSWLM, GE, CR to pull us back from a rather sticky situation. This is what happens when the producers get lazy and just chuck together formula Bond without seeing how the audience is moving on.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    I'm optimistic but Bond 25 will really have to deliver and pull all the punches.
  • peter wrote: »
    "I've said all along: they know what they're doing."
    SP, DAD and - to a lesser extent - QoS are ample proof, that they don't.

    @noSolaceleft ... because you don’t like three films out of 24, that’s ample proof that EoN doesn’t know what they are doing? What an absurd and ridiculous statement; if you are being serious, then this, I’m afraid, is ample proof that you’re like a child throwing a tantrum.

    And am I to assume, since you didn’t put SF on your list, that you now appreciate the film in some manner?

    It's the job of a producer to know what works or what not. Somehow like a captain who tries to avoid any catastrophes on its way. Brothergate, Tsunami surfing Bond and a cutting that doesn't give the audience a chance to see the $200 million plus that were put into the making of the movie are ample proof that she doesn't know spit. Like it or not Barbara probably hasn't shown that there's anything that makes her more then a mediocre producer. Maybe not even that.
    Oh, and of course I could have put Skyfall on my list since the way I see it it's also the job of a producer to recognize a story that is as logical as f written on a late afternoon in a kindergarten.
  • patb wrote: »
    @ClarkDevlin "Bond will never go out of popularity."

    If that attitude resides within EON, then we are in big trouble. Society, culture, movies etc all move forward and nothing can be taken for granted.

    Bond, as a popular franchise, will endure, but only if it moves with the times and reflects society, just as you said. But who knows what future film-goers will be watching. I know certain millennials who do no like Bond, thinking he's a sexist caricature, so let's not just assume that Bond movies will always be popular. Also, the quality of Bond is variable (we hit new highs with Skyfall and new lows with Spectre). But the biggest problem with Bond and EON today is the lack of actual Bond movies. I know they are expensive to make, but Impossible Mission now shows that you can make these great action movies, and deliver all the excitement, style and intrigue in less than half the time and half the budget it takes EON to develop 1 mediocre Bond movie.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    You know I have chatted to a lot of friends and family of mine who have seen Spectre, and they all really enjoyed it. These will be people that would go to see Bond in the cinema once and then maybe watch it on TV if it was on but wouldn't be Bond fanatics like us here… Guess what? They all said they thought it was great and if they had any problems with it, they are nowhere near as negative about the film as some people seem to be here.

    There was so much good stuff in that film. Were there things that could've been better? Of course there were. There are things in nearly every film that could be better. But somehow the idea that Spectre was a complete disaster with no redeeming features at all is a load of rubbish.

    I really enjoyed the film when it came out, as I have enjoyed it the many, many times I have re-watched it since on Blu-ray. Is it perfect like Casino Royale, from Russia with Love, or Goldfinger et cetera? No, of course not. But it really, really is not as bad as some people are making it out to be here. I would put it over most of the Roger Moore entries, and pretty much all of the Brosnan entries.

  • Posts: 4,600
    Also, society/culture in general (for various reasons) has become less patient. Things generally move quicker and if something is "off the agenda", out of the headlines, it can become reduntant pretty quickly as the void is filled by something else. Four years now is like ten years in the sixties (if that makes sense). I'm not sure if EON are aware of this. Disney certainly are. The need for momemtum in any series/franchise is crucial IMHO.

    The whole MI team/cast appearing on BBC chat shows 6 months before release dates is a clear indicator of this. Staying in the headlines is key.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    edited February 2018 Posts: 189
    patb wrote: »

    The whole MI team/cast appearing on BBC chat shows 6 months before release dates is a clear indicator of this. Staying in the headlines is key.

    Bond is never out of the headlines. There are very few days of the week when I've not seen something about the films, Daniel Craig, or someone being "The James Bond of X" appearing in a newspaper or website.

    And I read both GQ and Esquire every month, and you can be guaranteed there will be at least one mention of Bond every single month in those magazines.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    patb wrote: »
    Four years now is like ten years in the sixties (if that makes sense).

    Really? I would say the other way around is more true.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    There was so much good stuff in that film.
    That's what makes me so angry about it exactly: The waste. Waste of good scenes, actors and loads of production value. Bautista was hell of a good henchman, Q had great scenes in the lift and in his "office", liked Bond's appartement, whole Mr.White segment ... all down the toilet for brothergate and all that.


  • Posts: 4,600
    As Bond fans, we can't judge the profile of Bond within mainstream media as we pick these things up on our radar and give them a higher profile. If you want to get Bond into mainstream media, then make a movie!
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    There was so much good stuff in that film.
    That's what makes me so angry about it exactly: The waste. Waste of good scenes, actors and loads of production value. Bautista was hell of a good henchman, Q had great scenes in the lift and in his "office", liked Bond's appartement, whole Mr.White segment ... all down the toilet for brothergate and all that.


    For me brother gate has been blown all out of proportion. When you come down to it all it is is that the Elder Oberhauser asked his son to treat the young orphan James Bond like a brother when he was there with them. That was it. And for some reason people have been saying that they are actually brothers. They are not. It was made clear in the movie but there are only two winters he spent with them and because the young Franz was an absolute nutcase, he was so jealous of the affection that the young James got that he ended up killing his father over it.

    Now would I prefer that they just made Blofeld "Blofeld"? Yes, absolutely. Does the "twist" ruin the film for me and turn it into "the biggest piece of sh*t, everyone should be shot who created this film, OMG there was never a worse film in the history of celluloid" film? No.

    But that is now the hysterical reaction on this board all the time. I was prompted by @SonofSean saying we had hit "new lows" with Spectre. There are many, many worse Bond films than Spectre.


  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,570
    @mybudgetbond . Last year I asked a few family members if they had liked Spectre and the answers were mixed. Generally favourable.
    I asked them what they thought about the big Bond/Blofeld reveal. None could even recall it. It had zero impact on them as a plot twist. Bond simply doesn't mean enough to them for this to be a deal breaker.

  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    edited February 2018 Posts: 189
    NicNac wrote: »
    @mybudgetbond . Last year I asked a few family members if they had liked Spectre and the answers were mixed. Generally favourable.
    I asked them what they thought about the big Bond/Blofeld reveal. None could even recall it. It had zero impact on them as a plot twist. Bond simply doesn't mean enough to them for this to be a deal breaker.

    Exactly!

    I have been a member of a few fan bases in my time, and I have come to learn the things that excite, annoy and even arouse us are generally not the interest of the public at large :-)

    Most cinema going people who enjoy a Bond film will go to it if the trailer excites them and maybe if the marketing makes out about it being Craig's last film.

    Brothergate will not stop them.



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Four years now is like ten years in the sixties (if that makes sense).

    Really? I would say the other way around is more true.
    No, I tend to agree with @patb on that one. In today's day and age time is critical. The pace of change is intense and minds are more fickle than ever. CR is like a generation ago almost. It's all about what have you done for me lately.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    NicNac wrote: »
    @mybudgetbond . Last year I asked a few family members if they had liked Spectre and the answers were mixed. Generally favourable.
    I asked them what they thought about the big Bond/Blofeld reveal. None could even recall it. It had zero impact on them as a plot twist. Bond simply doesn't mean enough to them for this to be a deal breaker.

    Agreed. While there’s polarising opinion on here it’s worth remembering the scrutiny is surgical and not necessarily representative of a wider world-view. Some of it is interesting some of it is mind-numbing.

    For me personally I’ve become quite bored with the endless stream of negativity (both blatant and subversive) from certain posters and their enablers, which is why I’ve taken to scanning rather than contributing over the last few months. Hopefully there will be some genuine optimism further down the line.
  • peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    yes, @bondjames-- your find, and your statement, as you're now seeing, means nothing more than: they connected with SF; not so much with SP. That's show biz.

    It means nothing more than that. And that was my point, lol! (as well as: on a lesser entry they can still make bucks, lol).

    Thanks you for finally seeing that.

    As I understand it the James Bond movies make constantly less box office in Asia than the mission impossible franchise. Let alone fast and furious. Especially in China they don't have any fuzzy,heartwarming memories of watching the Bond movies in their childhood so they just go for the entertainment factor. Note, I didn't say that the fast and the furious are somehow good movies. They are plainly not.

    You’ve been a busy boy today! Read the article I linked to. Other than one FF film, Bond beats it, and M:I, and many of its competitors, worldwide.

    Returning to our regular scheduled programming: Bond 25...

    Note, I specified Asia. That's why no "fuzzy, heartwarming memories"!
  • Posts: 15,818
    NicNac wrote: »
    The longer the breaks between films the harder they have to work to pull in a new generation.

    Exactly. Much harder, I'd say. Right now I don't feel the media is exactly Bond friendly with all the articles emphasizing his need to change, etc. Just about every article on Bond seems to have some sort of negativity regarding the character as out dated.

    Frankly, I'm tired of each new film having to prove Bond's relevance to suit mainstream audiences. Whether it be following the "re-boot" trend, tweaking the formula to the point it's barely recognizable, or self consciously forcing a story arc into the films, I don't find those as much fun.

    Re-introducing Bond worked for GE after six years, but at least the following films came out within a reasonable time frame without the need to prove Bond each film. They carried on as normal, albeit, with varying degrees of quality.

  • Posts: 4,600
    From a PR perspective, there is a world of difference between controlling the agenda (interviews, controlled leaks, posters, photoshoots etc) and having nothing to say and letting cheap, silly gossip fill the void.

    Bond is meant to be a "classy" brand and having nothing but rumour and "false news", whilst better than nothing", can be corrosive in the long term IMHO
  • Posts: 1,548
    Bring back Dalton after Craig for an old man Bond storyline.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    All it takes is one film to change the flavour of opinions on this thread. That's how fickle we've all become in this instant gratification age. Having said that I have certainly detected a point of view among my friends and family that Bond is a bit tired and in need of a shakeup. It's surprising to hear that given everyone thought things had actually gone in that direction with the prior 50th anniversary film. So once again, opinions are fickle. Coincidentally, they mirror my own.

    The most important thing with this new one is to make it feel fresh and not rehashed. I actually agree with P&W's comments indicating that SP sort of closed out a way of doing things (interestingly, those comments were made prior to them being officially rehired for the gig).

    I look forward to what they come up with, but for now I have other series and franchises to keep my interest. Bond has just become one of those, until they recast and reimagine everything once more, which they inevitably will at some point.
  • patb wrote: »
    The very fact that the thread has gone in this direction is evidence in itself. If you go back 18 years to the release of MI2, there would be no significant debate re Bond v MI.

    Now the debate exists and that speaks volumes IMHO

    Absolutely. The debate was unmerited until the sp/ rn cycle. Every other time bond has won by a landslide imo, sf/ gp being the next closest
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The very fact that the thread has gone in this direction is evidence in itself. If you go back 18 years to the release of MI2, there would be no significant debate re Bond v MI.

    Now the debate exists and that speaks volumes IMHO

    Absolutely. The debate was unmerited until the sp/ rn cycle. Every other time bond has won by a landslide imo, sf/ gp being the next closest
    They were smart not to go the action route with SF. They took a different approach and it was a massive critical success. Best not to take Hunt/Cruise on with his own game. You'll lose.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 4,600
    Yes. A more adult style triller with more tension and character. Please!!!

    DC hanging off a cliff? It's game over down that route.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    As long as it lights a fire under EON's rear end to get a move on and return to the standard Bond film every 2 years schedule, I'll be very happy.
    +1. Light the fuse. ;)
    +2. Get on with it.

    RE: MI vs Bond - a key point to consider is that MI:GP regained a lot of the audience which was lost for MI:3 (which wasn't as successful at the box office). MI:RN then pretty much retained all of that audience 4 years later (the global box office was near identical).

    The same can't be said of Bond, with SP losing 34% (even before adjusting for ticket inflation) of the audience in the US (still the biggest single market) and having the distinction of having sold the least number of tickets stateside since LTK. Let that sink in for a minute. Not a good sign because the rate of decline signifies something.

    This is why B25 is critical, especially after 4 years.

    I'm not sure where/how you are getting your numbers.

    SP outperformed RN, in the U.S.. In 2015...

    RN opened at 3, 956 screens. It grossed $55.5m in opening weekend and $195m, overall.

    SP opened at 3, 929 screens, It grossed $70.4m in its opening weekend and $200m overall.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=missionimpossible.htm

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=jamesbond.htm

    Furthermore, ticket sales are estimates and not at all accurate. I wouldn't get too concerned over that: SP's sales were generally the same as CR's.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?view=main&id=jamesbond.htm&adjust_yr=1&p=.htm
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @TripAces, as with another poster before there appears to be a misunderstanding in what I'm saying above.

    This isn't about RN vs. SP in absolute terms. We all know that SP was the more successful film. That has never been disputed by me. Bond is the more popular franchise as well. I'm very familiar with the numbers you have posted.

    What I'm saying is the rate of drop off in ticket sales between GP and RN vs. SF and SP signifies a drop off in enthusiasm among the viewers. It was a rather dramatic decline, particularly for a continuation story. That indicates that the film didn't resonate on a relative basis, despite the fact that in absolute terms it was more successful. Moreover, it's overall gross as a % of opening gross was less than RN's which also signifies a relative lack of 'legs'. These are measures which track enthusiasm after the initial burst of viewers. Bond films tend not to open big but rather draw in their audiences in the US over several weeks. Check CR or SF's total US gross vs. its opening in comparison to see what I mean.

    Regarding ticket sales: Of course it's generally the same as CR. That's not something to be proud of however in my opinion. CR introduced a new Bond who was unknown in the US. SP followed on from the biggest Bond film in decades and yet ended up with ticket sales which were (just) below any film since LTK.

    The facts are the facts. One can interpret them any way one wants to.

    To be clear again, I'm referring to audience retention and used the SW8-TLJ example in one of my previous posts to indicate where there is a similar decline in relation to the prior film. In both cases, I'm assuming the production team will make some tweaks with the next film (which is why Waltz not returning doesn't surprise me). More dramatic changes than previously foreseen. Or perhaps they should.

    Once more and for the record, I have never made any statement about Bond declining as a franchise and what not and it would be incorrect to draw such broad and vague inferences from my posts.
  • //Furthermore, ticket sales are estimates and not at all accurate. I wouldn't get too concerned over that: SP's sales were generally the same as CR's.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?view=main&id=jamesbond.htm&adjust_yr=1&p=.htm //

    From 1995 to present, in the U.S., the box office by number of tickets sold has been 23 million to 27 million, with Skyfall as the exception (37.8 million).

    But it is also true that SPECTRE is the lowest in that group, lower than Quantum of Solace, for example.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,087
    It almost seems like something is destined to interfere with Bond 25. They managed to evade the writers strike, but now this hand injury and still the unknown identity of the mystery distributor. The silence gets spookier by the minute.
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