Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • edited March 2018 Posts: 6,601
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,626
    Agreed @Germanlady; I thought DC’s face wasn’t tampered with, but, he did appear as if he was enjoying his “downtime”. Once people quit booze (sugars), weight loss is immediate. Looks like Mr. Craig is getting ready for something big!
  • Posts: 19,339
    That was nice of him,and yes @Germanlady ,he is looking his old self again,which is great news.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Agreed, that was nice of him. And he looks great here. Good to see him back on track, again.
  • Posts: 14,859
    Wow! Really impressed! He looks so much better.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2018 Posts: 5,185
    And two weeks ago everyone was hyperventilating over nothing.
    I hope some people will remember this next time something like that comes up,
    but who am i kidding...
  • Posts: 3,333
    Ludovico wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    So ultimately, I don't think it's necessary but I don't have a problem with them going that route. Just make sure your actor is versatile (not all theatre actors are) and makes sure he can command the small screen with his presence as well.

    Is being versatile really the point. Does Bond require a good actor, or just someone who might be the worst actor imaginable, but they for some reason, are popular with the audience? Not aimed at any Bond actor, but a genuine question that popped into my head when I read your post.

    I think Lazenby proved in the past that you don't need to be a great actor (some would say Moore & Brosnan too) ,but I think now that Craig is seen as Bond then the next actor will need to match that calibre.

    That's true. Lazenby wasn't an actor, but got by on his charisma and natural toughness.

    But this was after the fact: during his short tenure he was not popular as Bond. And while he grew in the role his inexperience often shows.
    In what way was Lazenby not popular? The movie did very good business back in 69-70.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    So ultimately, I don't think it's necessary but I don't have a problem with them going that route. Just make sure your actor is versatile (not all theatre actors are) and makes sure he can command the small screen with his presence as well.

    Is being versatile really the point. Does Bond require a good actor, or just someone who might be the worst actor imaginable, but they for some reason, are popular with the audience? Not aimed at any Bond actor, but a genuine question that popped into my head when I read your post.

    I think Lazenby proved in the past that you don't need to be a great actor (some would say Moore & Brosnan too) ,but I think now that Craig is seen as Bond then the next actor will need to match that calibre.

    That's true. Lazenby wasn't an actor, but got by on his charisma and natural toughness.

    But this was after the fact: during his short tenure he was not popular as Bond. And while he grew in the role his inexperience often shows.
    In what way was Lazenby not popular? The movie did very good business back in 69-70.
    I don't think it was as popular (relatively speaking) in the US in comparison to what came before and what followed. There was a notable dip. Overall global gross was also down in comparison to YOLT, TB, DAF & LALD.

    EDIT: Profitability was also down in comparison to the films which came after (although Connery's charity got a large chunk of money for DAF).
  • Posts: 14,859
    What @bondjames said. Of course it's a bit unfair as there was at the time only one point of comparison to Lazenby but there you go.
  • Posts: 2,896
    bondsum wrote: »
    In what way was Lazenby not popular? The movie did very good business back in 69-70.

    The movie was more popular than Lazenby--even critics who praised him did so grudgingly. And though it did very well, grosses were disappointing compared to YOLT's. And when Connery returned Lazenby was forgotten about. Had Lazenby continued in the role things would have been different, but for a long time he was regarded by the public as a failure. Most of the casual Bond fans in my family and elsewhere used to completely dismiss him. OHMSS's reputation began rising steadily in the 90s, and so did Lazenby's, but before then only cultists thought highly of him.

  • Posts: 3,333
    Ok. I see, so we're talking retrospectively about Lazenby, not during his own solo tenure then? Just a side note, but the critics weren't as influential back then as they are today. I wish people wouldn't keep bring up the critical response as a reason why a film performed badly during the Sixties or Seventies. It just wasn't the case. Otherwise, all of Eastwood's movies would have bombed along with half a dozen other BO successes. Even the acid-tongued Pauline Kael didn't stick the boot in on the movie's original release, other than calling Lazenby "quite a dull fellow" and she wasn't particularly complimentary about the screenplay either, adding: "the script, by Richard Maibaum, isn't much." Though she does go on to say "but the movie is exciting, anyway. In some ways, it's the most dazzling of the series up to this time." The reason why I've included Kael, which some of you might not be aware of, is that she was the American big-cheese New York film critic of the time and she had quite the following. Not that she would've necessarily influenced those in other parts of America. I just think it's a bit sticky trying to unravel how audiences viewed a movie if you weren't there to experience it for yourself. Though I agree that OHMSS was unfairly maligned by its own studio and staff once Connery and Moore took over afterwards, which only added to its reputation as being a bit of a dud.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    bondsum wrote: »
    Ok. I see, so we're talking retrospectively about Lazenby, not during his own solo tenure then? Just a side note, but the critics weren't as influential back then as they are today. I wish people wouldn't keep bring up the critical response as a reason why a film performed badly during the Sixties or Seventies. It just wasn't the case. Otherwise, all of Eastwood's movies would have bombed along with half a dozen other BO successes. Even the acid-tongued Pauline Kael didn't stick the boot in on the movie's original release, other than calling Lazenby "quite a dull fellow" and she wasn't particularly complimentary about the screenplay either, adding: "the script, by Richard Maibaum, isn't much." Though she does go on to say "but the movie is exciting, anyway. In some ways, it's the most dazzling of the series up to this time." The reason why I've included Kael, which some of you might not be aware of, is that she was the American big-cheese New York film critic of the time and she had quite the following. Not that she would've necessarily influenced those in other parts of America. I just think it's a bit sticky trying to unravel how audiences viewed a movie if you weren't there to experience it for yourself. Though I agree that OHMSS was unfairly maligned by its own studio and staff once Connery and Moore took over afterwards, which only added to its reputation as being a bit of a dud.

    My shelves at home include half a dozen books of Kael's reviews. She was a great writer with an encyclopaedic knowledge of cinema. Sometimes unfair, usually controversial, but she trod her own path.
    She was fulsome with praise for the 1976 King Kong when everyone else hated it. Yet she tore into popular films like Doctor Shivago and The Sound Of Music.

    A true one off.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 2,896
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just a side note, but the critics weren't as influential back then as they are today.

    I think the opposite is true. Critics were far more influential back then because there were fewer media outlets before the internet. People make a big deal of Rotten Tomatoes nowadays, but in 1969 folks relied more on the opinions of a smaller number of critics, almost all in newspapers and magazines, and there were a smaller number of these as well. This meant that individual critics counted more, whereas today people rely on the consensus grade given by Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritics.
    Even the acid-tongued Pauline Kael didn't stick the boot in on the movie's original release...The reason why I've included Kael, which some of you might not be aware of, is that she was the American big-cheese New York film critic of the time and she had quite the following.

    Kael was also a genuine fan of the Bond films (unlike many other highbrow critics and her rival Andrew Sarris). She loved the Connery Bonds and Connery himself--"With the glorious exceptions of Brando and Olivier, there's no screen actor I'd rather watch than Sean Connery. His vitality may make him the most richly masculine of all English-speaking actors." She evidently grew to like OHMSS more over time; when she reviewed DAF she said OHMSS was "otherwise topnotch."

    Kael was a very highly regarded critic among the intelligentsia (and rightfully so, I love her writing), but she wrote for a magazine, The New Yorker, that didn't have a mass readership. She even said her influence was much less than that of the critics for The New York Times, who were read by far more people. The NYT critic who reviewed OHMSS wrote that Lazenby was a "casual, pleasant, satisfactory replacement" (faint praise); the NYT critic who reviewed DAF was so happy about Connery's return that he called OHMSS the worst Bond film. I think those attitudes sum up the critical and popular attitude treatment of Lazenby, who received grudging praise at best in 1969 and was reviled and forgotten afterward, in the wake of Connery's return and Moore's tenure (to his credit, Moore always spoke highly of OHMSS).
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 1,469
    I realize this deviates from the posts before it, but I thought it worth posting if you hadn't seen or heard it before, and maybe it bears repeating, because I think Roger Moore was talking truth when he told the Daily Mail in 2015, "I have heard people talk about how there should be a lady Bond or a gay Bond. But they wouldn't be Bond for the simple reason that wasn't what Ian Fleming wrote. It is not about being homophobic or, for that matter, racist--it is simply about being true to the character." I totally agree.

    Of course, Barbara Broccoli told the paper late last year "anything is possible" regarding changes to the character after the Craig era. And Craig basically agreed. But I think Moore was right on. Not everything has to change with the times and "political correctness". Doing so would violate the inherent nature and impression of a character that was created and had the same sex, ethnicity and basically the same habits throughout Fleming's original literary run. If that changes, it wouldn't be Bond to me, even if it is to Broccoli. Things change in life, but not everything does--some things are always the way the way they've always been, because of their inherent nature.

    A few examples showing many Americans still want what they want, even if these things are said by segments of "society" to be bad in whole or in excess. U.S. gun ownership stats show a slight drop-off since the early 1970's, but apparently one in three households now has at least one gun. Despite the dangers and stigma of smoking, about 15% of Americans say they still smoke, though that's down from previous years. And in the last two decades, Americans have been drinking more alcohol, especially more wine and hard liquor. Bond would appreciate knowing these things, but likely he wouldn't care and would just do his own thing...like many of his fans, I think. By the way, I think it's a great photo of Roger in the link.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3288147/Bond-row-looms-Roger-Moore-says-007-t-gay-woman-Star-88-says-political-correctness-not-considered.html
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Nice to see him giving a nod to Dalton. If true, that is.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited April 2018 Posts: 8,010
    I must admit that I scoffed at the suggestion of Nicholas Hoult, but recent photos are making me begin to reconsider; he’s a good actor and seems to be growing into his looks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5627359/Nicholas-Hoult-welcomed-child-model-girlfriend-Bryana-Holly.html
  • Posts: 14,859
    He looks a tad too soft on the DM pictures.
  • 001001
    Posts: 1,575
    Here is a henchman for bond.

    maxresdefault.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    I must admit that I scoffed at the suggestion of Nicholas Hoult, but recent photos are making me begin to reconsider; he’s a good actor and seems to be growing into his looks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5627359/Nicholas-Hoult-welcomed-child-model-girlfriend-Bryana-Holly.html
    I'm afraid I'm still scoffing. I've never seen the appeal in this guy.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,904
    Like 60's Dalton and 80's Brosnan, Hoult still needs to age a few more years. Maybe wait to see what he looks like at 40.
  • Posts: 17,341
    001 wrote: »
    Here is a henchman for bond.

    maxresdefault.jpg

    Good guy, you mean!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    bondjames wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I must admit that I scoffed at the suggestion of Nicholas Hoult, but recent photos are making me begin to reconsider; he’s a good actor and seems to be growing into his looks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5627359/Nicholas-Hoult-welcomed-child-model-girlfriend-Bryana-Holly.html
    I'm afraid I'm still scoffing. I've never seen the appeal in this guy.

    No. Just no to Hoult.
  • Posts: 19,339
    suavejmf wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I must admit that I scoffed at the suggestion of Nicholas Hoult, but recent photos are making me begin to reconsider; he’s a good actor and seems to be growing into his looks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5627359/Nicholas-Hoult-welcomed-child-model-girlfriend-Bryana-Holly.html
    I'm afraid I'm still scoffing. I've never seen the appeal in this guy.

    No. Just no to Hoult.

    Agreed....he is a bit of a wet fart atm...have a look in another 5 years (or more ).

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Nice to see him giving a nod to Dalton. If true, that is.

    "James Bond legend Sir Roger Moore has courted controversy by insisting that 007 could never be portrayed as a gay man – or be played by a woman.

    Sir Roger, who has previously come under fire for questioning whether the spy could be played by a black actor such as Idris Elba, risks a further backlash over his latest comments.

    He said: ‘I have heard people talk about how there should be a lady Bond or a gay Bond. But they wouldn’t be Bond for the simple reason that wasn’t what Ian Fleming wrote"


    Back lash for common sense. Laughable.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,010
    Like I said,growING into his looks
  • Posts: 3,333
    Revelator wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just a side note, but the critics weren't as influential back then as they are today.

    I think the opposite is true. Critics were far more influential back then because there were fewer media outlets before the internet. People make a big deal of Rotten Tomatoes nowadays, but in 1969 folks relied more on the opinions of a smaller number of critics, almost all in newspapers and magazines, and there were a smaller number of these as well. This meant that individual critics counted more, whereas today people rely on the consensus grade given by Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritics.
    I'm not sure of your age @Revelator? Are you talking from firsthand experience or are just making an assumption? If what you say was true then as I pointed out before, Psycho, Bonnie and Clyde, 2001 and Dirty Harry would have all flopped based on their poor critical reviews. As would have many other movies of that same period. I'm sure critics carried some sway in the late Sixties, but nothing like they would have done in the Thirties when their reviews could've killed a movie stone dead. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
    Revelator wrote: »
    Kael was also a genuine fan of the Bond films (unlike many other highbrow critics and her rival Andrew Sarris). She loved the Connery Bonds and Connery himself--"With the glorious exceptions of Brando and Olivier, there's no screen actor I'd rather watch than Sean Connery. His vitality may make him the most richly masculine of all English-speaking actors." She evidently grew to like OHMSS more over time; when she reviewed DAF she said OHMSS was "otherwise topnotch."
    Informative @Revelator. I had a few books by Pauline Kael in the late 80s. The reviews for the Bond movies were not what I would've called written by a "genuine fan". I seem to recollect that her review for Dr. No wasn't particularly glowing apart from praise for Connery holding the screen. She seemed to soften her stance by the time of YOLT and OHMSS. Of course, Kael's retrospective "otherwise topnotch" comment about OHMSS would not have helped its BO by the time of DAF's release. If indeed Kael's reviews influenced anyone at all, much like other movie critics of the time.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,159
    There is doubt over another Mad Max due to legal disputes. If Venom ends up not doing well later on in the year, Tom Hardy would be free of any big franchise. Not to mention he is teaming up with Josh Thank (of Fant4stic fame), so his star might be in need of a boost in a couple years time.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    There is doubt over another Mad Max due to legal disputes. If Venom ends up not doing well later on in the year, Tom Hardy would be free of any big franchise. Not to mention he is teaming up with Josh Thank (of Fant4stic fame), so his star might be in need of a boost in a couple years time.

    He’ll need his legs lengthening at 5ft 8 in tall.
  • Posts: 2,896
    bondsum wrote: »
    I'm not sure of your age @Revelator? Are you talking from firsthand experience or are just making an assumption? If what you say was true then as I pointed out before, Psycho, Bonnie and Clyde, 2001 and Dirty Harry would have all flopped based on their poor critical reviews.

    I wasn't alive during the 60s or 70s, but my assumptions are based on my knowledge of film history and criticism. In the case of Bonnie and Clyde for example, Pauline Kael's rave review is legendary for making other critics reconsider their stance (like Joe Morgenstern at the Washington Post) and it helped publicize the movie. Beyond that, it's always been possible for big Hollywood movies with large advertising budgets and good word of mouth to overcome bad reviews. But I'm not convinced that Psycho, 2001, or Dirty Harry received uniformly bad reviews. They had some high profile detractors, but they don't necessarily represent the critical consensus (or even that of New York and LA). Kael for example was among the first to label Dirty Harry fascist, but the country was in a conservative mood (Nixon's landslide re-election was around the corner) and primed to make the film a hit.
    I had a few books by Pauline Kael in the late 80s. The reviews for the Bond movies were not what I would've called written by a "genuine fan".

    Like many original Bond fans, Kael wasn't very fond of Roger Moore. But she still praised TSWLM as a "triumph" and was positive about OP. And it should be taken into account that in the 1960s lots of highbrow critics, such as Sarris, dismissed the Bond films as Hitchcock ripoffs. Kael by contrast said she loved them on one occasion. I don't recall her ever mentioning Dr. No, but she did call FRWL "exciting, handsomely staged, and campy." TB was "Not bad, but not quite top-grade Bond. A little too much underwater war-ballet" and YOLT was "probably the most consistently entertaining of the Bond packages up to the time." OHMSS was "marvelous fun," "exciting," and "the director, Peter Hunt, is a wizard at action sequences, particularly an ethereal ski chase that you know is a classic while you're goggling at it, and a mean, fast bobsled chase that is shot and edited like nothing I've ever seen before."
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Thanks for your feedback @Revelator. Being someone that was very much alive during this period and a regular cinemagoer (my own attendance grew dramatically from 1974 onward on a weekly basis) I can say I didn't take any notice of reviews, nor did anyone else I knew at the time. I think the problem with trying to understand whether a series of poor reviews affected the box office upon its release is not having the information available to you firsthand, but having to root through what's available online today, which can be pretty sparse. Of course my own POV is London-centric and doesn't take in how the US might have responded. Word of mouth was always the best way to know whether a movie was good or not, but then that did depend somewhat on the type of person who was passing on this information to you. You pertain that some of those movies that I mentioned getting negative reviews as not "necessarily representing the critical consensus" though you forget that there was no "critical consensus" to measure anything by back then. You either read a good or bad review in your local newspaper and believed what they said or you didn't. You certainly didn't scour other sources to decide on how best to invest your 30 Pence investment into a cinema ticket just in case one critic had got it wrong. In the UK Barry Norman was very popular in the 70s and I watched ALL his shows, when they were available as they weren't on every week, right from the very first one. He wasn't always right, but regardless, I still went to see a movie even if Norman didn't like it because I was drawn by the subject matter or the actor, not the review itself. I won't bore you with what showbiz publications I did read, other than to say I read Variety every week throughout the entire 70s so was aware of what was happening in the movie world. That wasn't the only publication I read, there's far too many to mention, but the point was it didn't affect which movie I went to see.
    Revelator wrote: »
    I don't recall her ever mentioning Dr. No, but she did call FRWL "exciting, handsomely staged, and campy." TB was "Not bad, but not quite top-grade Bond. A little too much underwater war-ballet" and YOLT was "probably the most consistently entertaining of the Bond packages up to the time." OHMSS was "marvelous fun," "exciting," and "the director, Peter Hunt, is a wizard at action sequences, particularly an ethereal ski chase that you know is a classic while you're goggling at it, and a mean, fast bobsled chase that is shot and edited like nothing I've ever seen before."
    I read Kael's review of Dr. No in one of her books that I mentioned I had from the Eighties. Alas, like most things, you won't find it available online. I no longer have it as I lost it in one of my many moves to refer back to, but I can recall not being too impressed with her views on some of my other favourite movies to boot. My own views are coming from someone who took a very keen and active interest in movies and their making throughout the 70s and onward. In fact, I never met anyone who was as interested in movies as much as myself from my own age group other than Adrian Turner, who I mentioned on another thread that I worked with in the past. I'll tell you one thing for nothing, we disagreed on the Die Hard 2, which he thought was better than the first one.
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