No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Eve Stavro Blofeld
    edited July 2017 Posts: 4,314
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    No kids in a Bond film please. Unless they are thrown off a boat in Thailand.

    Strangely enough, due to DirecTV's horrible plot summaries, I thought the story of TWINE was going to be something similar before I first saw it. The description was; "Bond protects the daughter of a late friend," and I thought it meant a young daughter. Terrible synopsis, but I liked the idea of Bond showing a softer side with the girl, while at the same time viciously pursuing/killing those trying to harm her.

    Back in the day, I read the same thing about the plot. In fact, it also said Bond would quit the secret service. Was that rumored to be the story of the film?
    peter wrote: »
    QoS was mired by a writer's strike @AlexanderWaverly

    Before the strike, Marc Forster threw out what work had been done before his arrival and work started anew.

    https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/a-james-bond-set-visit-and-seven-exclusive-quantum-of-solace-images/

    Forster and Wilson both revealed that an earlier idea for the film was scrapped when Forster came aboard to helm. ***“Once I signed on to do it we pretty much developed the script from scratch because I felt that it wasn’t the movie I wanted to make*** and we started with Paul Haggis [the Oscar winner who rewrote Casino Royale] from scratch,” Forster recalled. **“And I said to him these are the topics I am interested in this is what I would like to say, what’s important to me.*** And we developed it from there together. Then Barbara and Michael said they liked where we were going and they liked the script.”

    (emphasis added).

    What's with all the importance given to these directors? Can't these guys just take the script and shoot it?
    Gobi-1 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    Shame they couldn't be so discerning when it came to Bond's brother.

    +1
    Blofeld as Bond's step-brother is a much worse idea, IMO.

    Except Bond and Blofeld are NOT brothers.

    Bond only spent around six or seven months with the Oberhausers over two consecutive winters. While under Hannes' temporary guardianship he told his son Franz to TREAT James LIKE a little brother which Franz despised. It's the equivalent of spending the summers at your Grandparents and having to put up with a bratty cousin who's jealous of you.


    Which makes it all the more ridiculous that Blofeld wanted revenge against Bond for something so small.
    Gobi-1 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    Shame they couldn't be so discerning when it came to Bond's brother.

    +1
    Blofeld as Bond's step-brother is a much worse idea, IMO.

    Bond's presence clearly has a big impact on Blofeld but brothers they are not. After murdering his father and faking his own death I doubt Blofeld gave much thought to Bond anymore, until Bond crossed his path again.

    But Franz' reason for wanting to kill his father was jealousy over his favorable treatment of Bond. The way the story is told in SP it makes it sound as though Blofeld's life mission is to get revenge on Bond; "author of all your pain" and all that. I believe that is the impression the writers wanted us to have, and it stinks.

    The relationship between Bond and Blofeld is handled in a unsatisfying, muddled way. On one hand, Blofeld says Bond "is, in a way, responsible for the path I took", and it is established that the relationship between Bond and Hannes Oberhauser was what triggered his psychosis, with Blofeld then proudly claiming he's "the author of all your pain", implying a certain desire for revenge. On the other hand, he also says to Bond that "you interfered in my world, I destroyed yours", making it sound as if for Blofeld, Bond is a nuisance, a small pester. So it is as if they want to simultaneously play up and play down Blofeld's desire for revenge on Bond and Bond's importance in influencing Blofeld's career choice. As if they wanted a big dramatic reveal but were embarrassed by it.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited July 2017 Posts: 3,747
    Oberhouser is used by his father.

    Same thing as Mr White said about Vesper in QOS and be on subtil way showed in Spectre maintile. Octopus take Bond his gun and shoot.

    If that is to difficult, then always refer to fames qoute of Goldfinger but with a twist. You expect me to die, no Mr Bond...

    Words are peoples best friend. This is why silence in meeting is so good..
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,989
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    No kids in a Bond film please. Unless they are thrown off a boat in Thailand.

    Strangely enough, due to DirecTV's horrible plot summaries, I thought the story of TWINE was going to be something similar before I first saw it. The description was; "Bond protects the daughter of a late friend," and I thought it meant a young daughter. Terrible synopsis, but I liked the idea of Bond showing a softer side with the girl, while at the same time viciously pursuing/killing those trying to harm her.

    Back in the day, I read the same thing about the plot. In fact, it also said Bond would quit the secret service. Was that rumored to be the story of the film?

    That's strange. The incorrect DirecTV description was on their guide around 2012 (which was when I first saw TWINE). They also had a lengthier, more accurate description. It would vary which description was used depending on the channel where TWINE was being aired. It's weird if this misinformation all traces back to some old rumor about the film from back in the day prior to its release.
  • Posts: 5,767
    =bg= wrote: »

    Wow, I just woke up to read that garbled report-- it's all over the map: Croatia, a blind baddie, a continuation novel, but also inspired by YOLT and OHMSS, with Bautista and Blofeld returning...

    It's like they cut and pasted every scrap from a fan forum and published it.

    It was as if I was reading something from a five year old suffering from ADD, who didn't take his daily dose of Ritalin.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Eve Stavro Blofeld
    Posts: 4,314
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    No kids in a Bond film please. Unless they are thrown off a boat in Thailand.

    Strangely enough, due to DirecTV's horrible plot summaries, I thought the story of TWINE was going to be something similar before I first saw it. The description was; "Bond protects the daughter of a late friend," and I thought it meant a young daughter. Terrible synopsis, but I liked the idea of Bond showing a softer side with the girl, while at the same time viciously pursuing/killing those trying to harm her.

    Back in the day, I read the same thing about the plot. In fact, it also said Bond would quit the secret service. Was that rumored to be the story of the film?

    That's strange. The incorrect DirecTV description was on their guide around 2012 (which was when I first saw TWINE). They also had a lengthier, more accurate description. It would vary which description was used depending on the channel where TWINE was being aired. It's weird if this misinformation all traces back to some old rumor about the film from back in the day prior to its release.

    I remember reading that way before 2012; in fact, it was probably in 2000. It was written on the back cover of some bootleg VHS of TWINE that was being sold in a... flea market, I think it's called (English is not my first language).
  • Posts: 1,289
    The Sunday Mirror article is certainly interesting. The fact they say Shatterhand is the working title makes me think there could be something in this report.
  • DrShatterhandDrShatterhand Garden of Death, near Belfast
    edited July 2017 Posts: 805
    =bg= wrote: »

    Oh yes please. Been a long held dream for a Shatterhand movie based on Fleming's YOLT. Not so sure about the Benson material being included though, have never read the book myself but just had a quick read of the plot and it sounds totally bonkers. Guess some of the plot points/settings could be used through (Japanese terrorist would seem obvious connection to YOLT)
  • Posts: 5,767
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    The Sunday Mirror article is certainly interesting. The fact they say Shatterhand is the working title makes me think there could be something in this report.

    You think, @ColonelSun? Don't you think they tossed everything into that article to make sure they covered all their bases? A blind baddie, but also Waltz and Bautista? A continuation novel, but also YOLT and OHMSS (they don't mention Swann, so I'm not sure how they could be taking inspiration from the two Fleming novels, since so much hinged on the tragedy of Tracy and avenging her).

    And what is EoN's policy on the continuation novels? I know we got to see a little of your namesake in the last film, but do they own the film rights to these continuation novels?
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,989
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What a horrific idea! Babs and MGW have my respect for vetoing that!

    No kids in a Bond film please. Unless they are thrown off a boat in Thailand.

    Strangely enough, due to DirecTV's horrible plot summaries, I thought the story of TWINE was going to be something similar before I first saw it. The description was; "Bond protects the daughter of a late friend," and I thought it meant a young daughter. Terrible synopsis, but I liked the idea of Bond showing a softer side with the girl, while at the same time viciously pursuing/killing those trying to harm her.

    Back in the day, I read the same thing about the plot. In fact, it also said Bond would quit the secret service. Was that rumored to be the story of the film?

    That's strange. The incorrect DirecTV description was on their guide around 2012 (which was when I first saw TWINE). They also had a lengthier, more accurate description. It would vary which description was used depending on the channel where TWINE was being aired. It's weird if this misinformation all traces back to some old rumor about the film from back in the day prior to its release.

    I remember reading that way before 2012; in fact, it was probably in 2000. It was written on the back cover of some bootleg VHS of TWINE that was being sold in a... flea market, I think it's called (English is not my first language).

    Hmm...that's really interesting. I love the oddities of bootlegs and knockoffs. I do wonder if the people that produced that bootleg pulled that info from some tabloid rumor. I suppose I'll take this to the questions thread and see if anyone knows of such a rumor from that time.
  • Posts: 1,289
    peter wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    The Sunday Mirror article is certainly interesting. The fact they say Shatterhand is the working title makes me think there could be something in this report.

    You think, @ColonelSun? Don't you think they tossed everything into that article to make sure they covered all their bases? A blind baddie, but also Waltz and Bautista? A continuation novel, but also YOLT and OHMSS (they don't mention Swann, so I'm not sure how they could be taking inspiration from the two Fleming novels, since so much hinged on the tragedy of Tracy and avenging her).

    And what is EoN's policy on the continuation novels? I know we got to see a little of your namesake in the last film, but do they own the film rights to these continuation novels?

    We'll have to see of course, but having read all of Fleming's Bond novels and many of the continuation novels, I think, like they did with the scene from Colonel Sun in SP, Eon and P&W could easily pull a few ideas from those other books.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Do they have the rights @Colonel Sun? And how is Benson as a continuation writer? I've read all the Fleming, time and again; read Colonel Sun a few times (with mixed feelings); tried twice, unsuccessfully, to get through Gardner (felt as these novels went on, the further he got away from the original character). I stopped at Gardner, never giving the other authors a chance since, I have this feeling, I won't recognize the character. Fleming was Fleming, and even in his weakest novels, still brought a majestic flair to his words and created some of the most incredible characters (and I include Viv Michel as one of them!).
  • Posts: 1,289
    I believe, and someone here can correct me if I'm wrong, Eon have first refusal on any material in the continuation novels through the Ian Fleming Estate who control those novel rights etc. Benson's books aren't bad, about on par with the first few Gardner novels which were the best. Colonel Sun remains, for me, the best continuation novel.
  • Posts: 606
    It's really strange they use Shatterhand and not using Yolt. I think they will do a mashup of the two books.
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/30/bond-to-battle-blind-supervillain-in-bond-25/
  • Posts: 5,767
    it seemed that Amis had the firmest grasp of the character, by far, @ColonelSun. I like CS, but, always find it a tough read. Just my opinion, it feels "clunkier" than Fleming, and I always find it "dirtier" in tone than Fleming, if that makes sense. I think the closest to come to this in the original novels, was TMWTGG...
  • Posts: 1,289
    It's really strange they use Shatterhand and not using Yolt. I think they will do a mashup of the two books.
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/30/bond-to-battle-blind-supervillain-in-bond-25/

    Having read NDOD, I can only conclude that, if the Mirror story has any truth to it, Eon are only using a few elements from that novel rather than the actual plot. Knowing P&W's respect for Fleming, I suspect it's likely they will work in unused elements from YOLT, perhaps even TMWTGG.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I thought it was common knowledge that the Mirror is a dismal rag but I'm consistently amazed by how much credence people here are willing to give it.

    It reaffirms my faith in humanity.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @Gustav_Graves, my instincts say this is complete b/s. We don't have a director yet and this article proclaims that Waltz and Bautista are signed on? How far in advance of a film's release is a working title confirmed and leaked to the press? 2.5 years in advance?

    Seems like a load of bull to me, although I'll give them credit for being a bit more original than most.

    Having said that, yes I do think they will continue to mine the continuation novels for elements, villains and scenes which they can incorporate into the films. I have no problem with them doing that, but I hope that P&W try to organically infuse it into their narrative in a better way than they did with the torture scene in SP. That scene seemed 'tacked on' from my perspective.
  • Posts: 3,084
    Of course that torture scene was tacked on, they've been playing around with different takes on that scene all through production haha.

    Anyway the article does mention YOLT and if I had to guess that'll probably be the main inspiration for B25. Will be shocked if it isn't. And Shatterhand, as obvious as it is, is the perfect title.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Having said that, yes I do think they will continue to mine the continuation novels for elements, villains and scenes which they can incorporate into the films. I have no problem with them doing that, but I hope that P&W try to organically infuse it into their narrative in a better way than they did with the torture scene in SP. That scene seemed 'tacked on' from my perspective.

    I so agree with you on that. The torture scene in SP? I loved it....but it would have been nice if Bond was left there in the desert seriously injured, urging Swann, with Moneypenny and Q, to initiate a rogue rescue mission of some sort.

    What I would like, if they do a full adaptation of a continuation novel, to organically end the Swann-Bond relationship ASAP at the start of Bond #25. A bit like they did in the novels "From Russia With Love" and "Trigger Mortis" (simply.....portraying a relationship break-up). And if they do a Shatterhand-related storyline, they have to tackle the Blofeld capture from SP and free him in a credible way for the cinema audiences.

    But all in a perfectly organic way yes. I then prefer to pick up the pace of a new mission and turn that the center of Bond #25. Let the characters drive the mission, instead of the other way around. A bit less drama, and more intrigue and Hitchcock-ian thriller.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    but it would have been nice if Bond was left there in the desert seriously injured, urging Swann, with Moneypenny and Q, to initiate a rogue rescue mission of some sort.

    We seem to differ on the definition of 'nice'.

    MP and Q parachuting in with Rory driving the Union Jack hot air balloon and I probably would have to walk out.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 519
    A few pages back there was a rather tongue in cheek suggestion that Refn's "Avenging Silence" was actually the BOND 25 plot. In that story the protagonist is mute due to a vocal cord injury. This strikes me as eerily similar to the use of a blind antagonist in the Mirror article. Could it be the EON has bought this story from P&W and Refn for the purposes of BOND 25? This would explain; why P&W are back, why there has been no new news on " Avenging Silence" and what EON has been doing these past almost two years .
  • Posts: 11,119
    but it would have been nice if Bond was left there in the desert seriously injured, urging Swann, with Moneypenny and Q, to initiate a rogue rescue mission of some sort.

    We seem to differ on the definition of 'nice'.

    MP and Q parachuting in with Rory driving the Union Jack hot air balloon and I probably would have to walk out.

    I just meant....a bit more narrative leading towards the torture sequence, and also some better narrative explanation how Bond survived the torture :-). Wouldn't you agree?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    but it would have been nice if Bond was left there in the desert seriously injured, urging Swann, with Moneypenny and Q, to initiate a rogue rescue mission of some sort.

    We seem to differ on the definition of 'nice'.

    MP and Q parachuting in with Rory driving the Union Jack hot air balloon and I probably would have to walk out.

    I just meant....a bit more narrative leading towards the torture sequence, and also some better narrative explanation how Bond survived the torture :-). Wouldn't you agree?

    I do agree. But that doesnt mean we need more Scooby gang input.
  • Posts: 11,119
    but it would have been nice if Bond was left there in the desert seriously injured, urging Swann, with Moneypenny and Q, to initiate a rogue rescue mission of some sort.

    We seem to differ on the definition of 'nice'.

    MP and Q parachuting in with Rory driving the Union Jack hot air balloon and I probably would have to walk out.

    I just meant....a bit more narrative leading towards the torture sequence, and also some better narrative explanation how Bond survived the torture :-). Wouldn't you agree?

    I do agree. But that doesnt mean we need more Scooby gang input.

    :-P
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    I thought it was common knowledge that the Mirror is a dismal rag but I'm consistently amazed by how much credence people here are willing to give it.

    It reaffirms my faith in humanity.
    People will believe whatever they want to believe

  • Posts: 11,119
    I thought it was common knowledge that the Mirror is a dismal rag but I'm consistently amazed by how much credence people here are willing to give it.

    It reaffirms my faith in humanity.
    People will believe whatever they want to believe

    Regardless of how we treat the media, not everything they write is bullocks ok? We know from experience that half of these tabloid articles usually have at least some truth in it. I mean, @BondJames himself said that it was a 'pretty original' article for The Mirror. So I am asking myself why a crap writer would engage in so much background info checks and coming up with names like "Shatterhand" and "Never Dream Of Dying"?
  • Posts: 5,767
    he's covering all his bases for a "story"?... He's got a little bit of everything in that article. Like I said, it felt like a cut n paste from every fan boy forum!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,967
    The National Enquirer is a tabloid but over the years they've consistently scooped the "legitimate " media.
    This story in the Mirror must be taken with a grain of salt but may be on to something.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 14,644
    @Gustav_Graves - I've seen tabloid dirge like this before when the News of the World claimed Eric Bana was going to star as Bond in a film of The Man with the Red Tattoo back in 2004! The Mirror doesn't get the year right either: NDOD was released in 2001, not 1999. The simplest of research is utterly lacking!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,488
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I believe the original rumor came from the Mirror, and Waltz has since denied being asked to return on several occasions.
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