No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Thunderball007Thunderball007 United States
    edited July 2017 Posts: 306
    GetCarter wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    In fact, I'm sure many on here will be aware of "Antagony and Ecstasy", an indie movie review site that is still visitable even though the author has moved on.

    In any case, Timothy has written a review of every Bond film based on a particular formula. For those who haven't seen them, they are incomparable.

    One of the criteria is "lifestyle porn". The glitz, the glamor, the savoir faire that some Bond instalments excel at while others don't.

    I would argue that Mendes makes the appearance of understanding this crucial element, but his two entries are curiously devoid of true lifestyle porn.

    I will take DC hungrily eating caviar on toast after his poker win over any number of Mendes' artful compositions.

    Whoever next holds the megaphone needs to get out of Bond's head and into his lifestyle. The hotel bookings, the food, the casinos, the opera.

    This is what sets Bond apart from all the market competitors.

    Combine lifestyle porn with a tight spy thriller and winner, winner chicken dinner.

    This guy is absolutely right. I think the lack of "lifestyle porn" is less problematic in Spectre than in Skyfall, but it's a definite weakness in both of Mendes' films. It is as if the filmmakers assumed that, because one was likely to be familiar enough with the previous Bond films, there was no further need to really focus on the glamour, as if it was something getting in the way of the story, the drama, the characters, whereas in fact, glamour is an essential element of these movies, and it can't never be emphasized enough. In fact, those other aspects can be almost subservient to it, as Moonraker exemplifies.

    Lol, yes. Love the movies that deliver lifestyle porn at all costs.

    FYEO has always stood out to me as a film that perfectly combines lifestyle porn and tight spy-jinks.

    Exhibit A - Bond and Cristatos having the most wonderfully pompous dinner.

    Yes, which makes me feel hungry. :p

    The glitz and glamour of the James Bond franchise is awesome!
  • Posts: 386
    Yep, that's the one. There's a 'bond list' in there with all the movies rated according to very specific bondian criteria. and it's a bloody good read.
  • Thunderball007Thunderball007 United States
    edited July 2017 Posts: 306
    @GetCarter

    Wow, this is impressive. I am reading now. Thank you a lot for telling of this!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Sometimes, when I read all the criticism in here about Sam Mendes, I would guess people prefer to see him die. I mean really, Mendes doesn't understand the 'joy' of a Bond film? He basically understands shit of the entire franchise? Sometimes it reads like he's worse than Lee Tama horizon, only capable of directing DAD-like crap with an air of fake drama. Really, sorry, but that's just over the top, that's the most exaggerative exaggeration of.....yeah what exactly. Nuance is a virtue to me. And Sam Mendes deserves a bit more credit for his Bond films.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Sometimes, when I read all the criticism in here about Sam Mendes, I would guess people prefer to see him die. I mean really, Mendes doesn't understand the 'joy' of a Bond film? He basically understands shit of the entire franchise? Sometimes it reads like he's worse than Lee Tama horizon, only capable of directing DAD-like crap with an air of fake drama. Really, sorry, but that's just over the top, that's the most exaggerative exaggeration of.....yeah what exactly. Nuance is a virtue to me. And Sam Mendes deserves a bit more credit for his Bond films.

    Perhaps, but he had two chances to prove to me that he has the ability to direct a good bond film and he really failed at both. Lee Tamahori is obviously worse but by how much? Also I find the cgi in skyfall and spectre very annoying especially since Casino and quantum didnt have any of that rubbish.
  • Posts: 386
    As for my own comment GG, I posited that Campbell better understood how awesome it would be to live like Bond.

    I find the Mendes films glum by comparison. I don't like his ponderous style but I appreciate there are many who do.

  • Posts: 11,119
    The thing I love about the two Mendes Bond films, is the fact that they have a slightly deeper meaning below the characters and storylines. If one only wants to have a plain, good Bond action blockbuster, then by all means go ahead and love that. But what Mendes gave to me, and perhaps a small minority in here who also agree with me, where movies that really say something about our geopolitical environment. Yes, the films had its flaws. For many in here the action wasn't up-to-par. And the way the characters were written and the drama surrounding them felt to many too contrived. But in all honesty, not so much to me. Perhaps it is that I have a weakness for drama in the first place. Many fans in here think that Bond is not a vehicle for that. I tend to disagree. Just like the press thought Bond should never marry after the premiere of OHMSS, I feel something similar with all the criticism with regard to SF and SP: Perhaps the Mendes Bond films age better after a few decades.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    It's actually SeaFire. According to The Mirror anyway.
    John Gardner's SeaFire caper by the villain (eco-terrorism, creating an oil disaster to apply a supposed remedy and claim victory plus a hero's crown) is a decent concept to pursue.

    I very much enjoyed your blog post on SeaFire from 7 August 2012, @Dragonpol. Very interesting the relations you report to World War II and even Dunkirk. And I work in the petroleum world, so all that background was great to see.

    ed09e103f1774df7280e8f642e3424d7--james-bond-a-fan.jpgb?b=RkSL2NSx4Vg3CLHP2XGvnw&cache=14916890571358564.jpg

    'Shocking thriller' is about right. Terrible, terrible book even by later era Gardner standards. After Win, Lose or Die there's only Death is Forever and parts of The Man From Barbarossa that hold up. Brokenclaw, Never Send Flowers, Seafire and Cold are all awful.

    Nice Pan cover mock up though.
    timmer wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    Of course that torture scene was tacked on, they've been playing around with different takes on that scene all through production haha.

    Anyway the article does mention YOLT and if I had to guess that'll probably be the main inspiration for B25. Will be shocked if it isn't. And Shatterhand, as obvious as it is, is the perfect title.

    I'd be schocked as well if YOLT wasn't the main inspiration for SP.
    You and I and others were kicking this around as far back as the leaks thread in the pre-spectre days. It was clear that the new SP story was riffing on OHMSS. The "we have all the time in the world line " was eventually dropped, but it was there for a while.
    The potential for working with Fleming's original unused post-OHMSS continuity, found in YOLT & TMWTGG was very apparent, glaringly so.
    Nothing has changed really. The Shatterhand seeds were planted way back in the SP script-development days.
    There were even reports back then that both Waltz and Seydoux, had been tentatively asked to commit to a 2nd film.
    I think Seydoux's return has probably been scrapped as not needed, but I'd say Waltz is very much wanted.
    I think Eon has been committed to this approach all along, but it did require Craig continuing, so that needed to be firmed up, and my guess, is that that is being done, possibly for two films, which would make good business sense.
    An announcement will come, I think when the timing is opportune.
    Lock Craig in for two more films, on a schedule, and away you go.
    Shatterhand I would say is very very good bet for the new title. Dare I say lock? Not without some inside dope, but I'd be prepared to go banco on that.

    As for the Never Dream of Dying book, being an influence.
    That is out of left field. It's possible P&W might like something from the book, but there is no prior reportage of any substance to support this.
    As for the YOLT and TMWTGG elements, I think that's what we are looking at - elements, and working with the broad strokes - working with the Fleming story in a modern retelling.
    There will not be Tracy, but with Blofeld being revived in SP, and even Bunt, in early SP drafts, there is potential for any of Tiger, Dikko or Scaramanga being revived---Scaramanga if we are talking two more films in this arc.
    Kissy probably not. Tiger might be a stretch too, as they are both closely associated with the already done YOLT film, and were already portrayed pretty close to Fleming.
    However, with Fleming's Dikko and Scaramanga, there is opportunity to get closer to these original characters.

    Babs, MGW and P&W are all very conversant in Fleming, so they would know how to use these characters, and the Fleming storylines.

    The trouble is that without a Tracy figure you rip the heart and soul out of YOLT.

    If Madeline is just said to have left Bond or not even mentioned at all (as plenty of people seem to be advocating) then all you've got is Bond going to help out the Japanese government with an embarrassing problem.

    Blofeld is Tracy. Without her he's just another Bond villain and not even that good. In Fleming Drax, Goldfinger and Dr No are all far better than Blofeld, who despite appearing in three books makes less impact than any of them. His status as nemesis relies almost exclusively on the killing of Tracy.

    If they want to do YOLT they have to kill Madeline don't they because to have Bond choking him at the end screaming 'Die Blofeld, die' just because he killed Hannes Oberhauser (which didn't seem to bother Bond in the slightest in SP) or lured a few Japs to top themselves really doesn't work.

    Just one more reason SP's botched execution has left us in a seemingly inescapable predicament and, call me a cynic, I hardly think P&W are the screenwriting equivalent of a gadget from Q Branch to get us out of it.
  • Posts: 4,619
    @Gustav_Graves You talk as if SF and SP were equally good. The truth is that SF is one of the top 5 Bond movies ever, and a great movie, period. SP on the other hand is a mess.
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 386
    The thing I love about the two Mendes Bond films, is the fact that they have a slightly deeper meaning below the characters and storylines. If one only wants to have a plain, good Bond action blockbuster, then by all means go ahead and love that. But what Mendes gave to me, and perhaps a small minority in here who also agree with me, where movies that really say something about our geopolitical environment. Yes, the films had its flaws. For many in here the action wasn't up-to-par. And the way the characters were written and the drama surrounding them felt to many too contrived. But in all honesty, not so much to me. Perhaps it is that I have a weakness for drama in the first place. Many fans in here think that Bond is not a vehicle for that. I tend to disagree. Just like the press thought Bond should never marry after the premiere of OHMSS, I feel something similar with all the criticism with regard to SF and SP: Perhaps the Mendes Bond films age better after a few decades.

    An entirely reasonable position. Despite my aversion to "drama" in my general Bond diet, OHMSS is my number one.

    There's something about that film that resonates deeply. I have a feeling it was a combination of Diana Rigg, John Barry at his absolute best and Peter Hunt's mastery of editing.
  • Posts: 17,241
    For me, Bond should balance the drama and whatever themes that particular movie touches upon, with the entertaining blockbuster elements that Bond is so well known for - adding the lifestyle of the character (hotels, food, casinos etc.). This have not been done perfectly since CR.
  • Posts: 11,425
    GetCarter wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    Whoever next holds the megaphone needs to get out of Bond's head and into his lifestyle. The hotel bookings, the food, the casinos, the opera.

    Combine this with a tight spy thriller and winner, winner chicken dinner.

    Which is in fact synonymous with Quantum of Solace. A tight spy thriller full of the Bond lifestyle and arguably Craig's best performance in the tux. Moan about the editing all you want, Forster got Bond like few others have. I hope whoever helms the next one has such a grasp of the character.

    Yeah QoS is interesting. I agree that Forster understood the concept, but I wanted more.

    Have said this myself many times. Forster gets slated for his editing but IMO 'got' Bond better than Mendes and for my money Campbell.
  • Posts: 11,119
    @Gustav_Graves You talk as if SF and SP were equally good. The truth is that SF is one of the top 5 Bond movies ever, and a great movie, period. SP on the other hand is a mess.

    Well, on average I think this 'duology' is better than average. I have SP as 7th or 8th now on my all-time ranking. SF I have on 2nd, after OHMSS.

    On average on this forum here (https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/16631/bond-polls-2016-the-top-10-james-bond-007-film-ranking-contest-results-winner-on-page-60/p64 ), SP came in 12th out of 26, and SF came in 5th out of 26.
  • Posts: 386
    Getafix wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    Whoever next holds the megaphone needs to get out of Bond's head and into his lifestyle. The hotel bookings, the food, the casinos, the opera.

    Combine this with a tight spy thriller and winner, winner chicken dinner.

    Which is in fact synonymous with Quantum of Solace. A tight spy thriller full of the Bond lifestyle and arguably Craig's best performance in the tux. Moan about the editing all you want, Forster got Bond like few others have. I hope whoever helms the next one has such a grasp of the character.

    Yeah QoS is interesting. I agree that Forster understood the concept, but I wanted more.

    Have said this myself many times. Forster gets slated for his editing but IMO 'got' Bond better than Mendes and for my money Campbell.

    At least as well as Campbell I think.

    Much of the criticism directed toward QoS centers around what it doesn't have. What we actually get is very, very good.

    Who knows, with a little more room to breathe, it might've joined Casino Royale as the best one-two punch in Bond history.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,416
    I playing with that game too, but don't vote for Twine and FYEO. Insteed i give more points to QOS and Avtak. 22/23 place for my 5th favorite movie, we must shared his place with my 10/11th place Bond movie. I give Spectre 1 motivation point.
  • Posts: 17,241
    The only real problem I had with QoS was the running time. It felt compact and short, making me want more - which isn't a bad thing, necessarily.
    The hotel fire finale wasn't my cup of tea, either, but it doesn't make me thing less of the film. I really, really liked it. I would welcome another Forster Bond-film, if they'd bring him back.
  • Posts: 4,400
    Personally, I feel Forster botched it. He had a personal style and clear take on it, but the final product felt disjointed and badly managed.

    His basic storytelling competencies should be questioned. Not only is the action badly stitched together (I still can’t tell you what happened in that plane chase) but the plot is woefully told.

    The runtime is a big issue as Forster is desperate to rush through the story with patchwork editing. Though I do enjoy the slightly more esoteric art-house feel to the movie. It’s an admirable misstep but after CR rejuvenated the franchise, it was clearly a move in the wrong direction.

    Mendes had a more stately, rich and auteur-ish take on Bond. Something that was equally as reverent as it was post-modern and subversive. It’s just a shame he came back for SP as he was clearly bereft of ideas.

    Yann strikes me as a young hungry filmmaker who wants to make edgy films. His movies and TV work as mostly been pretty tough and bruising stuff set in urban locations. I imagine they want that gritty realism back in Bond. I think we’ll get something more akin to CR with him.

    However…..he may not get the job. I imagine the producers want Denis more than anything but much is dependent on his schedule (with Yann the No.1 reserve). Interestingly, Denis has explicitly stated that he wants to do a Bond film:

    http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Sicario-Director-Wants-Do-James-Bond-Movie-Which-Needs-Happen-Immediately-85457.html

    I think Sicario is perhaps the best example of what a Bond film from the director would look like:



    Personally, I’m backing Damange. I think Denis (like Nolan and Edgar Wright) would make more sense for a reboot.


  • Posts: 11,425
    The only real problem I had with QoS was the running time. It felt compact and short, making me want more - which isn't a bad thing, necessarily.
    The hotel fire finale wasn't my cup of tea, either, but it doesn't make me thing less of the film. I really, really liked it. I would welcome another Forster Bond-film, if they'd bring him back.

    The shorter running time is One of its strengths IMo. Hope we don't get another bloated and overlong entry for B25.
  • Posts: 17,241
    Getafix wrote: »
    The only real problem I had with QoS was the running time. It felt compact and short, making me want more - which isn't a bad thing, necessarily.
    The hotel fire finale wasn't my cup of tea, either, but it doesn't make me thing less of the film. I really, really liked it. I would welcome another Forster Bond-film, if they'd bring him back.

    The shorter running time is One of its strengths IMo. Hope we don't get another bloated and overlong entry for B25.

    Hence the fact that the running time of QoS left me wanting more. :-)
  • Posts: 11,119
    Personally, I feel Forster botched it. He had a personal style and clear take on it, but the final product felt disjointed and badly managed.

    His basic storytelling competencies should be questioned. Not only is the action badly stitched together (I still can’t tell you what happened in that plane chase) but the plot is woefully told.

    The runtime is a big issue as Forster is desperate to rush through the story with patchwork editing. Though I do enjoy the slightly more esoteric art-house feel to the movie. It’s an admirable misstep but after CR rejuvenated the franchise, it was clearly a move in the wrong direction.

    Mendes had a more stately, rich and auteur-ish take on Bond. Something that was equally as reverent as it was post-modern and subversive. It’s just a shame he came back for SP as he was clearly bereft of ideas.


    I fully agree with you here.
  • Posts: 1,162
    Sometimes, when I read all the criticism in here about Sam Mendes, I would guess people prefer to see him die. I mean really, Mendes doesn't understand the 'joy' of a Bond film? He basically understands shit of the entire franchise? Sometimes it reads like he's worse than Lee Tama horizon, only capable of directing DAD-like crap with an air of fake drama. Really, sorry, but that's just over the top, that's the most exaggerative exaggeration of.....yeah what exactly. Nuance is a virtue to me. And Sam Mendes deserves a bit more credit for his Bond films.

    Nuance is a virtue of yours? That's a good one. You should write the jokes for the next script!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Remember this article by the way? It said that director Guy Ritchie was meeting up with Michael G. Wilson back in LA (Guy Ritchie is usually doing movies for Warner Brothers).
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/news/tabloids-claim-guy-ritchie-is-on-bond-25-director-shortlist-160918

    So I am not sure if we really should rely that heavily on the news that "Yann Demange met with the producers at EON's headquarter".As far as I see it, many directors meet with EON. It's only part of the search process.

    Now I know how people feel about Guy Ritchie here, but fact is that there are similarities between the style of Demange and Ritchie.

    I still think it's all way too early, and I wouldn't be surprised if Daniel Craig says to Barbara Broccoli: "Hey Babs, what about Steven Soderbergh??"
  • Posts: 17,241
    Morten Tyldum also had a meeting with the producers at some point. Went back to check the date on the article where it was mentioned, which was May 2013.
    He said himself: «I can confirm I've had a meeting with Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. They are fans of «Headhunters», and wanted to know if I was available in the near future, and that I should read a script.»
  • Posts: 11,119
    Morten Tyldum also had a meeting with the producers at some point. Went back to check the date on the article where it was mentioned, which was May 2013.
    He said himself: «I can confirm I've had a meeting with Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. They are fans of «Headhunters», and wanted to know if I was available in the near future, and that I should read a script.»

    Yeah, but that means they skipped Morten Tyldum altogether, since they went for Sam Mendes with Bond #24. We are talking about Bond #25 now. The news from Guy Ritchie dates back to earlier this year. Still, who knows, maybe EON's shortlist consists of 25 directors, including Morten Tyldum :-).
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 17,241
    Morten Tyldum also had a meeting with the producers at some point. Went back to check the date on the article where it was mentioned, which was May 2013.
    He said himself: «I can confirm I've had a meeting with Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. They are fans of «Headhunters», and wanted to know if I was available in the near future, and that I should read a script.»

    Yeah, but that means they skipped Morten Tyldum altogether, since they went for Sam Mendes with Bond #24. We are talking about Bond #25 now. The news from Guy Ritchie dates back to earlier this year. Still, who knows, maybe EON's shortlist consists of 25 directors, including Morten Tyldum :-).

    Yeah, that's the point. He had a meeting with them back then, and in the end they chose Mendes instead. Relatable to the directors meeting EON for B25 now. Demange might be talking to them, but the director who'll end up directing B25 can be someone else.


    Re. Tyldum, it looks like he's directing the pilot episode for the new Jack Ryan tv-series, the first two episodes of a show called Counterpart, and a movie called Pattern Recognition.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    Italian newspaper says Italian director could be in the mix to direct
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/31/is-an-italian-director-in-the-mix-to-direct-bond-25/
  • Posts: 11,119
    Italian newspaper says Italian director could be in the mix to direct
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/31/is-an-italian-director-in-the-mix-to-direct-bond-25/

    We should change the topic title into:

    "Bond 25 Production Diary: Yann Demange spotted at EON HQ, Guy Ritchie spotted with Michael Wilson, Paolo Sorrentino is in the mix now, Daniel Craig had a good time working with Steven Soderbergh, Denis Villeneuve and David Mackenzie also on shortlist, but wait, now the topic title becomes too long"

    :-D
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Italian newspaper says Italian director could be in the mix to direct
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/31/is-an-italian-director-in-the-mix-to-direct-bond-25/

    This is getting pretty desperate now.

    If I hear a bloke in a pub discussing B25 does that count as 'reports state....'?
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited July 2017 Posts: 5,185
    Italian newspaper says Italian director could be in the mix to direct
    http://www.jborbisnonsufficit.com/2017/07/31/is-an-italian-director-in-the-mix-to-direct-bond-25/

    This is getting pretty desperate now.

    If I hear a bloke in a pub discussing B25 does that count as 'reports state....'?

    Of course, what do you think where all those reporters got their stories from?
    Thats modern day internet "journalism"
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Rumoured title, "Forever Is Not Enough"???
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