No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 5,767
    If they make a good standalone film, they can use Blofeld, Madeline or whomever however they want.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think a Bond film where Bond only appears a third of the way I would be quite ingenious. Tough to pull off but could be interesting.

    Alternatively why not be really original and have Bond go rogue...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,480
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about we just ignore Madeline and maybe SP as a whole next time around

    People really need to get an idea such as this out of their heads. There is no way an era that was built and run on continuity is just going to wipe the last film from its memory, especially when that film ended with Bond turning away from his old life. It's going to be addressed; it's unavoidable at this point.
    Why? QoS was ignored completely.

    How so? SP connected everything, with SF being a slight breather as GF was for the SPECTRE saga of the 60s. In SP, everything that'd happened to Bond since CR was addressed or was felt in impact. That's not a series of films forgetting each other. If EON wanted to forget QoS we'd have never seen White or Quantum again, for instance, much less have the newest film involve Bond protecting White's actual daughter. In many ways, SP is the sequel to QoS.

    For the people who want to use the "SF didn't follow up QoS" argument, what happened at the end of QoS that was as consequential as Bond leaving MI6 for a retired life? That's right.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,580
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about we just ignore Madeline and maybe SP as a whole next time around

    People really need to get an idea such as this out of their heads. There is no way an era that was built and run on continuity is just going to wipe the last film from its memory, especially when that film ended with Bond turning away from his old life. It's going to be addressed; it's unavoidable at this point.
    Why? QoS was ignored completely.

    How so? SP connected everything, with SF being a slight breather as GF was for the SPECTRE saga of the 60s. In SP, everything that'd happened to Bond since CR was addressed or was felt in impact. That's not a series of films forgetting each other. If EON wanted to forget QoS we'd have never seen White or Quantum again, for instance, much less have the newest film involve Bond protecting White's actual daughter. In many ways, SP is the sequel to QoS.

    For the people who want to use the "SF didn't follow up QoS" argument, what happened at the end of QoS that was as consequential as Bond leaving MI6 for a retired life? That's right.

    Fully agreed. It's ludicrous to say otherwise, frankly.
  • The head of the world's most dangerous criminal organization, which had successfully infiltrated MI6 for years, remained at large. If that doesn't need to be addressed, Bond returning to business as usual after a holiday with Madeleine doesn't need to be addressed (or at least not with any larger ceremony than a chipper "Good to have you back, 007" from ol' Q).
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,146
    Tanner referenced QOS in Skyfall. "We may have a few friends left in the CIA."
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,580
    Murdock wrote: »
    Tanner referenced QOS in Skyfall. "We may have a few friends left in the CIA."

    I also find Bond's line, "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be" as an implicit nod to Vesper.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,480
    The head of the world's most dangerous criminal organization, which had successfully infiltrated MI6 for years, remained at large. If that doesn't need to be addressed, Bond returning to business as usual after a holiday with Madeleine doesn't need to be addressed (or at least not with any larger ceremony than a chipper "Good to have you back, 007" from ol' Q).

    It's quite clear Quantum was pulled back, and around the time of SP was done away with entirely. With how many operations Bond was stopping, post-QoS Quantum had to hide under the blanket to avoid throwing more eyes on it and SPECTRE through association. It made no sense for them to continue operating at a fifth of their old capacity.
  • Let's face it, SPECTRE is going to be used again and again and again by Eon now that they have the rights. They're going to use SPECTRE so frequently that even the most diehard SPECTRE fans among us will be exhausted of it and will cry out for a standalone film. There's no way around that. But B25 can certainly pick things up without Waltz's Blofeld (who is incarcerated), without SPECTRE (who just lost their leader), and without Madeleine (who follows a long line of never-again mentioned Bond girls, several of whom developed far more convincing relationships with their leading men). Just as SF distinguished itself entirely apart from its predecessor, so too can B25 carry on without picking up all the threads from SP.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,338
    The head of the world's most dangerous criminal organization, which had successfully infiltrated MI6 for years, remained at large. If that doesn't need to be addressed, Bond returning to business as usual after a holiday with Madeleine doesn't need to be addressed (or at least not with any larger ceremony than a chipper "Good to have you back, 007" from ol' Q).

    It's quite clear Quantum was pulled back, and around the time of SP was done away with entirely. With how many operations Bond was stopping, post-QoS Quantum had to hide under the blanket to avoid throwing more eyes on it and SPECTRE through association. It made no sense for them to continue operating at a fifth of their old capacity.

    That's not clear at all. Not from the films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Just as SF distinguished itself entirely apart from its predecessor, so too can B25 carry on without picking up all the threads from SP.
    I agree. It definitely can, but will it? I have serious doubts, particularly if Craig is back. In that case, I'm betting on a follow up to SP. That is the primary reason to have him back actually. Otherwise it's best just to start fresh and leave the past behind entirely.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,480
    The head of the world's most dangerous criminal organization, which had successfully infiltrated MI6 for years, remained at large. If that doesn't need to be addressed, Bond returning to business as usual after a holiday with Madeleine doesn't need to be addressed (or at least not with any larger ceremony than a chipper "Good to have you back, 007" from ol' Q).

    It's quite clear Quantum was pulled back, and around the time of SP was done away with entirely. With how many operations Bond was stopping, post-QoS Quantum had to hide under the blanket to avoid throwing more eyes on it and SPECTRE through association. It made no sense for them to continue operating at a fifth of their old capacity.

    That's not clear at all. Not from the films.

    That Quantum was absorbed? Seems pretty clear to me.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about we just ignore Madeline and maybe SP as a whole next time around

    People really need to get an idea such as this out of their heads. There is no way an era that was built and run on continuity is just going to wipe the last film from its memory, especially when that film ended with Bond turning away from his old life. It's going to be addressed; it's unavoidable at this point.
    Why? QoS was ignored completely.

    How so? SP connected everything, with SF being a slight breather as GF was for the SPECTRE saga of the 60s. In SP, everything that'd happened to Bond since CR was addressed or was felt in impact. That's not a series of films forgetting each other. If EON wanted to forget QoS we'd have never seen White or Quantum again, for instance, much less have the newest film involve Bond protecting White's actual daughter. In many ways, SP is the sequel to QoS.

    For the people who want to use the "SF didn't follow up QoS" argument, what happened at the end of QoS that was as consequential as Bond leaving MI6 for a retired life? That's right.
    That's not what you said, though. You stated that Craig's films are so connected that the next film always follows up on the remaining elements from the previous film. SF disproves your point.

  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I almost don't want a bond 25 the more that I think about it because EON and MGM and the creative team are so inept and just seem like they will be unable to deliver a great bond film in the next couple years.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    I almost don't want a bond 25 the more that I think about it because EON and MGM and the creative team are so inept and just seem like they will be unable to deliver a great bond film in the next couple years.
    You Crazy.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,480
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about we just ignore Madeline and maybe SP as a whole next time around

    People really need to get an idea such as this out of their heads. There is no way an era that was built and run on continuity is just going to wipe the last film from its memory, especially when that film ended with Bond turning away from his old life. It's going to be addressed; it's unavoidable at this point.
    Why? QoS was ignored completely.

    How so? SP connected everything, with SF being a slight breather as GF was for the SPECTRE saga of the 60s. In SP, everything that'd happened to Bond since CR was addressed or was felt in impact. That's not a series of films forgetting each other. If EON wanted to forget QoS we'd have never seen White or Quantum again, for instance, much less have the newest film involve Bond protecting White's actual daughter. In many ways, SP is the sequel to QoS.

    For the people who want to use the "SF didn't follow up QoS" argument, what happened at the end of QoS that was as consequential as Bond leaving MI6 for a retired life? That's right.
    That's not what you said, though. You stated that Craig's films are so connected that the next film always follows up on the remaining elements from the previous film. SF disproves your point.

    That's not exactly what I said, no. It does help to read clearly. I said the Craig era is based on continuity, which it is. You know that the man you see in SF is the same from CR and QoS, and he's developed from the man he was in those films in a way that can be empirically calculated. These films tell each leg of Bond's journey, and so the last ones matter in who he's come to be in the newest film, and onward. The angry and vulnerable Bond of CR led to the quiet and (eventually) peaceful man at the end of QoS, who led into the more professional and lively man of SF and SP. There is also a wealth of callbacks in each movie to the last ones, in not only the cinematography, but also in dialogues and little lines here and there. They're moments for the fans, and they don't beat you over the head with them, which is why it's thrilling to uncover them. Continuity isn't limited to obvious references to previous films, it's how the characters in the present relate to who they were in the past, and how far they've come in their development. Each character in the Craig era has had that sort of development, major or minor.

    I'm simply calling out the contention that films like QoS have been abandoned by the series, which couldn't be farther from the truth. SP disproves that ten times over, in more ways than one. How this randomly got onto a general continuity discussion is beyond me.
  • I believe the original point was that SF moved on from QOS without addressing any of the characters, plot points, or story threads from its predecessor, therefore there's no reason to think B25 can't do the same with SP.

    As @bondjames states, the real question here is will they? SP fared roughly the same as QOS critically (slightly poorer according to Rotten Tomatoes) and both fell quite short of their immediate predecessors.

    Just looking at recent history, the clean slate approach of Skyfall makes sense, but if creative control remains in the hands of Craig and Mendes, we very well might see Spectre, Pt. Deux instead.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,480
    I believe the original point was that SF moved on from QOS without addressing any of the characters, plot points, or story threads from its predecessor, therefore there's no reason to think B25 can't do the same with SP.

    As @bondjames states, the real question here is will they? SP fared roughly the same as QOS critically (slightly poorer according to Rotten Tomatoes) and both fell quite short of their immediate predecessors.

    Just looking at recent history, the clean slate approach of Skyfall makes sense, but if creative control remains in the hands of Craig and Mendes, we very well might see Spectre, Pt. Deux instead.

    Again, SP ended in a fashion that had to be followed up, and that basically teased another part outright, whereas QoS was the ending to the two part arc CR had set up; there wasn't any hanging thread to continue. It was the ending from which a new chapter could be written. We're still in that next chapter, which SF and SP started.

    I also think the reaction to SP has been blown out of the water, as too many people listen to American critics instead of looking internationally. There were an overwhelming number of places where SP outclassed SF, especially financially. I think QoS got hate for not being enough of a Bond film, and strangely SP got hate for being too much of a Bond film. Good luck finding the logic in that drivel.
  • I'm not saying I agree with the critical reception. I think enormously highly of QOS and there are obviously very strong supporters of SP as well. Nevertheless, QOS and SP have been at large received very differently from CR and SF.

    As for B25 having to follow up from where SP left off, I'm afraid we simply disagree on this point. What did SP tease that needs to be immediately followed on from? Blofeld is in prison. SPECTRE ostensibly is a headless snake now. Sure, they could drum up another SPECTRE story, break Blofeld out of prison or whatnot, but they don't need to. The threat is done with. Unlike QOS actually, where the threat was very much alive and out there and yet went completely ignored in SF. That's all I'm saying. There isn't anything SP started that can't be ignored for a film or two—or more.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Love how some people talk about another franchise in this thread.

    Unfortunately when there no bond 25 news people will do that
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    jake24 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Tanner referenced QOS in Skyfall. "We may have a few friends left in the CIA."

    I also find Bond's line, "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be" as an implicit nod to Vesper.
    Where was that line from?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Tanner referenced QOS in Skyfall. "We may have a few friends left in the CIA."

    I also find Bond's line, "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be" as an implicit nod to Vesper.
    Where was that line from?
    Skyfall. Bond to Severine at the bar when he holds her wrist.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126

    I believe the original point was that SF moved on from QOS without addressing any of the characters, plot points, or story threads from its predecessor, therefore there's no reason to think B25 can't do the same with SP.

    As @bondjames states, the real question here is will they? SP fared roughly the same as QOS critically (slightly poorer according to Rotten Tomatoes) and both fell quite short of their immediate predecessors.

    Just looking at recent history, the clean slate approach of Skyfall makes sense, but if creative control remains in the hands of Craig and Mendes, we very well might see Spectre, Pt. Deux instead.

    Again, SP ended in a fashion that had to be followed up, and that basically teased another part outright, whereas QoS was the ending to the two part arc CR had set up; there wasn't any hanging thread to continue. It was the ending from which a new chapter could be written. We're still in that next chapter, which SF and SP started.

    I also think the reaction to SP has been blown out of the water, as too many people listen to American critics instead of looking internationally. There were an overwhelming number of places where SP outclassed SF, especially financially. I think QoS got hate for not being enough of a Bond film, and strangely SP got hate for being too much of a Bond film. Good luck finding the logic in that drivel.

    I do agree here I felt the end of spectre opened a new door for a different era of bond films.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Tanner referenced QOS in Skyfall. "We may have a few friends left in the CIA."

    I also find Bond's line, "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be" as an implicit nod to Vesper.

    And Bond tells Eve to stop touching her ear in the casino. None of this means SF carried on from QOS plot-wise.

    Bond sniffed Rosa Klebb's shoe in Die Another Day, but that didn't make the film From Russia With Love: The Squeakquel. ;)
  • Posts: 12,700
    QoS was referenced but it still feels like the black sheep of the Craig era. They ditched them for Spectre and downplayed any reference to it (Green gets the least attention of any Craig era villain in the various callbacks, did he even get a photo in the MI6 fun house set up?). Mr White came back but his character predates QoS anyway and even then, he was in one scene before being killed off. They couldn't ignore it because of the angle they were going for but it's clear that the films reception had an affect on how they moved forward (if it was critically acclaimed and broke box office records in the same way that SF did, maybe we wouldn't even have gotten Spectre's return?).

    It does make me wonder how they'll carry on from SP if Craig returns. It's not a hugely popular film but it's also much harder to ignore/downplay than Quantum (the ending either works as an ending or a setup for a direct sequel, it'd be very hard to follow it up with a standalone film and still address it in a satisfying way imo). Personally I think SP was a great end to the Craig era and that they should just leave it at that, but the longer we wait the more I think him returning is a possibility, so we'll see.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited April 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Greene was fairly there as much as the rest of the past villains were in Spectre. Only M and Vesper Lynd received explicit mentions. And Moneypenny utters the word "Quantum" while referencing Mr. White.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited April 2017 Posts: 16,146
    Greene got a photo reference. Heck even Patrice did which I never noticed before.
    latest?cb=20160221061237
  • Posts: 37
    One final Craig film, tie up all the loose ends, and then reboot. Blofeld escapes, Bond comes out of retirement as a favour to M. Big spectacular chase picture, then widens to a save the world scenrio. You can take out the Madeline revenge angle, just have Bond saying "it didnt work out" etc etc. Give Dan, a big globe trotting spectacular to end his reign. I would love it to end with Bond and Blofeld battling on the mountains (where his parents died) giving closure to the themes of the Craig era.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited April 2017 Posts: 15,423
    phibes72 wrote: »
    One final Craig film, tie up all the loose ends, and then reboot. Blofeld escapes, Bond comes out of retirement as a favour to M. Big spectacular chase picture, then widens to a save the world scenrio. You can take out the Madeline revenge angle, just have Bond saying "it didnt work out" etc etc. Give Dan, a big globe trotting spectacular to end his reign. I would love it to end with Bond and Blofeld battling on the mountains (where his parents died) giving closure to the themes of the Craig era.
    It appears I wasn't the only one to think of such thing! I back up that idea! Heck, I'll back up the entire post as the idea for the next film! Great post, sir!
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 5,767
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about we just ignore Madeline and maybe SP as a whole next time around

    People really need to get an idea such as this out of their heads. There is no way an era that was built and run on continuity is just going to wipe the last film from its memory, especially when that film ended with Bond turning away from his old life. It's going to be addressed; it's unavoidable at this point.
    Why? QoS was ignored completely.

    How so? SP connected everything, with SF being a slight breather as GF was for the SPECTRE saga of the 60s. In SP, everything that'd happened to Bond since CR was addressed or was felt in impact. That's not a series of films forgetting each other. If EON wanted to forget QoS we'd have never seen White or Quantum again, for instance, much less have the newest film involve Bond protecting White's actual daughter. In many ways, SP is the sequel to QoS.

    For the people who want to use the "SF didn't follow up QoS" argument, what happened at the end of QoS that was as consequential as Bond leaving MI6 for a retired life? That's right.
    We were talking about the next film ignoring the last film, therefore I brought an example where the next film ignored the last film.
    SF completely ignores QoS. There is no continuity there. Any emotional development presented in QoS is completely disregarded by SF. SF repeats a lot of ideas from QoS, instead of continuing from there.
    Let´s not kid ourselves here, the thought that Eon wants to forget QoS is offering itself, because audiences associate negative reactions to things like supposed shaky cam and frantic editing with QoS. Mr White was as present in CR as he was in QoS. The references to Quantum in SP feel forced in to the extreme for the sake of making Spectre the link at all costs, and are as badly executed as the foster-brother angle feels like cheap soap opera stuff.
    If you want to call that an era that was built and run on continuity, and a series of films not forgetting each other, suit yourself.

    Forgive me if I can´t take you seriously on SP´s ending being significantly consequential, because the idea of Bond retiring is presented in a ridiculous manner, SP didn´t do anything throughout to give the audience the impression Bond might even a bit think about reitirement. SP´s ending truly feels as if nothing would be lost if the next film just ignored Bond and Madeline driving off in the DB5.
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