The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • edited October 2016 Posts: 7,500
    She is blaming Russia and the Syrian govt for everything, when we all know it is the US and its partners who violate international law there.


    If you expected her to openly criticize US foreign policy I think you were charmingly naive. I would welcome it of course, but in what universe is that gonna happen? These debates only barely skim the surface of each issue anyway, so expecting a deep analysis of the historical problems in the middle east within the format is far fetched.

    What matters at this stage is what are factual truths and lies. It is not a lie to point out that the Syrian and Russian military are mainly targetin rebels and not ISIS or terrorists. That is a fact. It is more of a lie to claim "they kill ISIS", because they hardly do that at all. The obvious lies in this instance is Trump claiming he was against the war in Iraq and the interference in Libya, which is so easily disproven that its only laughable and embarrasing. Its also lying to claim that ISIS has Lybian oil (thanks to Hillary) as there is no solid evidence to suggest it.

    At the end of the day what matters is who seems to have a basic understanding of the mechanisms in the Middle East. Trump clearly doesn't have it...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I wasn t surprised in the slightest.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Let's not beat around the bush anymore. I think it's over and out for Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton will be the next president of the United States.

    PS: Did people see how Donald Trump moved behind Hillary when Hillary was talking? God, what an anger in his eyes. It's like he almost wanted to knock-out Hillary. Like a boxer. Having said that: Goodbye Mr Trump.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jobo wrote: »
    It is not a lie to point out that the Syrian and Russian military are mainly targetin rebels and not ISIS or terrorists.

    Same thing.
  • Posts: 7,500
    jobo wrote: »
    It is not a lie to point out that the Syrian and Russian military are mainly targetin rebels and not ISIS or terrorists.

    Same thing.


    No, it is not. There are rebels opposing the Assad regime, and there are terrorists wanting to exploit the situation and expand their territory.
  • Posts: 315
    Greetings from St. Louis and the debate. The process of entering the hall and 4 security searches took 3 1/2 hours. Seated 2 rows behind Sen. Dick Durbin. Saw a few Secret Service and other security people I know-a few in disguise. Trump was seething with anger and stalked around the stage. He unloaded 30 years of right wing anger at Hillary, which I am sure pleased the base. Hillary played the safe game. I don't think he picked up one undecided vote and remains 3-5 points behind Hillary. He is losing suburban white women dramatically.

    Paul Ryan is holding an important meeting today on what the GOP should do with funding the national vs. down ballot races/ A number of Senate races hinge on whether the Senators will publicly denounce Trump or not.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Did people see how Donald Trump moved behind Hillary when Hillary was talking? God, what an anger in his eyes. It's like he almost wanted to knock-out Hillary. Like a boxer. Having said that: Goodbye Mr Trump.

    Only fitting, as this whole debate was advertised like a boxing rematch.

    Trump's tone of speech and body language the entire debate just made him sound like a desperate man on the end of his rope, as opposed to the first debate where he sounded like a fighter. He didn't succeed in projecting confidence last night, and he certainly didn't project any sort of intelligence. Hillary projected both.

    I didn't like that she was allowed to break the time limit more than he, but she was at least answering the questions most of the time. He would fly off on tangents blaming the Obama administration or Hillary herself for every little thing. So help me, I think he'd like to blame one of them for Mrs. O'Leary's cow knocking over the lantern and starting the fire.

    I was in a chatroom last night during the debate, and one of my friends there said that neither of these two should be allowed in the top 500k candidates for mayor of a small town, and I agree with that. Hillary is the lesser of two evils here, but neither are truly fit to lead this country. I'll be voting for Hillary purely because she can sound like she knows what she's doing, while Trump can't even sound like he knows how to handle a debate.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    FLeiter wrote: »
    . Dick Durbin.

    What a great name! He sounds like a 1940's private eye.

  • Posts: 4,600
    As a Brit, I am often ashamed at the quality of person we allow to run our country.....but they look like Gods compared to the USA. Its a very sad
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    patb wrote: »
    As a Brit, I am often ashamed at the quality of person we allow to run our country.....but they look like Gods compared to the USA. Its a very sad

    Agreed.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Whoever wins this election is a one termer. The first one since Bush Sr. It will be a catastrophic presidency no matter who is elected imho because one half of the country will absolutely detest the choice with a vengeance on account of the gutter campaign. Credibility has been lost before they are even sworn in.

    So start paying attention to the VP candidates. One of them is likely to be in the oval office 4 yrs from now or sooner, because I won't be surprised if one of these two are impeached while in office to get them out.
  • Posts: 7,500
    FLeiter wrote: »
    I don't think he picked up one undecided vote and remains 3-5 points behind Hillary. He is losing suburban white women dramatically.


    That's the key and the main reason to be optimistic for those who don't want him in office. Everyone expected that he would try to alter his image a bit for the duel with Hillary, be more moderate so he could appeal to the many undecided doubters. He is doing the exact opposite. Its quite bizarre and an almost surprisingly thoughtless strategy. The only trump he has (pun intended) is that his fanbase is more passionate than Hillarys and that the many undecided voters who find it hard to warm up to her might not turn up to vote.

    However it is the swing states that will decide the election as always, and as of now it seems very unlikely they will turn in favour of Trump.
  • Posts: 4,600
    If Clinton wins, I will buy a new washing machine from my winning bet and call her "Hillary" (cue jokes about spin), I am desperate to end up with something positive from this mess.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited October 2016 Posts: 28,694
    Trump's speech and demeanor were absolutely laughable. Laughable. I've never seen a worse performance at a debate setting of this kind.

    Throughout the night, from beginning to end, Trump either...

    1.) Blamed everything under the sun on Hillary or Obama-with some of his followers no doubt thick enough to suck it up.

    2.) Every time a question came his way, he ignored the town hall members and used it as an opportunity to hijack that question and use the opportunity for more of #1 above.

    3.) He yelled at the moderators for being unfair to him, when throughout the entire debate he spoke for a whole minute longer than Clinton ever did in total. Even then, of the massive amount of time he did speak, barely a minute of that time contained actual responses to the content in the questions he was asked to address.

    4.) He saw fit to randomly bring up the supposed victims of Bill Clinton throughout the debate at moments where they didn't belong, and in many ways, he paraded the women around (who he put in the audience) like such objects only there to help his cause that the feelings he expressed in the leaked video only further support the disfigured view of women so many think he has.

    5.) His body language was like that of a one-legged amnesiac, creeping around the stage seemingly without direction at where he was going, and in many cases, looking absolutely lost. The only expressions he showed were those of disgusting, bull-like sniffs, or the twisted, ugly scrunches his face somehow always folds itself into.


    All the circle jerk panels from the Sean Hannity show don't block out the truth, and the truth is that last night, Trump was an utter failure who never kept on message when Clinton went out of her way to always address the voters there, always knew their names, and never chose to disrespectfully hijack their questions to go on a long-winded derision fest of Trump, like he always did to her, every time. Her frustration at his attempts to take the town hall away from the concerns of the people were visible and felt by me all the same. Can Trump seriously be called a populist when he treats the American people he's aiming to sell his "brand" to with such disrespectful indifference and invisibility?

    It's clear that as a "reality star," Trump can play to a crowded audience or a camera, but when it comes time to appeal to normal people, and to have true human connections that aren't scripted or that don't serve to inflate his own ego, he's utterly lost. It was like he never even knew the undecided voters were there with him on the floor. More often than not (when he wasn't droning around like a lost puppy looking half asleep) he just faced the moderators and the audience behind them, never looked the people on the floor in the eye, and certainly made no appeal whatsoever to address them or their concerns when the moment proved too juicy not to resort to blaming Hillary and Obama for anything that popped into his mind.

    How the night could be seen any other way, I haven't the faintest idea. The supporters Trump has left must all be sipping the same Kool-Aid as ol' Rudy Giuliani. I never thought I'd get such a sick thrill from watching a bunch of simple-minded passengers partying in triumph on their cruise liner while a leak in the ship's underside is sinking it more and more as each moment goes by.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 7,500
    Trump's speech and demeanor were absolutely laughable. Laughable. I've never seen a worse performance at a debate setting of this kind.

    Throughout the night, from beginning to end, Trump either...

    1.) Blamed everything under the sun on Hillary or Obama-with some of his followers no doubt thick enough to suck it up.

    2.) Every time a question came his way, he ignored the town hall members and used it as an opportunity to hijack that question and use the opportunity for more of #1 above.

    3.) He yelled at the moderators for being unfair to him, when throughout the entire debate he spoke for a whole minute longer than Clinton ever did in total. Even then, of the massive amount of time he did speak, barely a minute of that time contained actual responses to the content in the questions he was asked to address.

    4.) He saw fit to randomly bring up the supposed victims of Bill Clinton throughout the debate at moments where they didn't belong, and in many ways, he paraded the women around (who he put in the audience) like such objects only there to help his cause that the feelings he expressed in the leaked video only further support the disfigured view of women so many think he has.

    5.) His body language was like that of a one-legged amnesiac, creeping around the stage seemingly without direction at where he was going, and in many cases, looking absolutely lost. The only expressions he showed were those of disgusting, bull-like sniffs, or the twisted, ugly scrunches his face somehow always folds itself into.


    All the circle jerk panels from the Sean Hannity show don't block out the truth, and the truth is that last night, Trump was an utter failure who never kept on message when Clinton went out of her way to always address the voters there, always knew their names, and never chose to disrespectfully hijack their questions to go on a long-winded derision fest of Trump, like he always did to her, every time. Her frustration at his attempts to take the town hall away from the concerns of the people were visible and felt by me all the same. Can Trump seriously be called a populist when he treats the American people he's aiming to sell his "brand" to with such disrespectful indifference and invisibility?

    It's clear that as a "reality star," Trump can play to a crowded audience or a camera, but when it comes time to appeal to normal people, and to have true human connections that aren't scripted or that don't serve to inflate his own ego, he's utterly lost. It was like he never even knew the undecided voters were there with him on the floor. More often than not (when he wasn't droning around like a lost puppy looking half asleep) he just faced the moderators and the audience behind them, never looked the people on the floor in the eye, and certainly made no appeal whatsoever to address them or their concerns when the moment proved too juicy not to resort to blaming Hillary and Obama for anything that popped into his mind.

    How the night could be seen any other way, I haven't the faintest idea. The supporters Trump has left must all be sipping the same Kool-Aid as ol' Rudy Giuliani. I never thought I'd get such a sick thrill from watching a bunch of simple-minded passengers partying in triumph on their cruise liner while a leak in the ship's underside is sinking it more and more as each moment goes by.


    As said before his entire performance seemed to be designed for the angry mob who hate the Clintons and Obama and arch conservatives who automatically opposes to everything the democratic party stands for no matter what. Those are the people he already has on his side, the loyal fanbase that will support him no matter what. It is hard to imagine any moderate or undecided voter being convinced by his evations, nonsensical rambling, reluctance to stay om topic and actually adress the questions asked, obvious lies and general ignorance of practically every issue raised. But then again America and politics is something I will never understand... so what do I know? :-??
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Whoever wins this election is a one termer. The first one since Bush Sr. It will be a catastrophic presidency no matter who is elected imho because one half of the country will absolutely detest the choice with a vengeance on account of the gutter campaign. Credibility has been lost before they are even sworn in.

    So start paying attention to the VP candidates. One of them is likely to be in the oval office 4 yrs from now or sooner, because I won't be surprised if one of these two are impeached while in office to get them out.

    I think you're greatly exaggerating. So my question for you would be: How would you react if, against all odds, Hillary's presidency is in fact better than Obama's first four years? How would you react?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Whoever wins this election is a one termer. The first one since Bush Sr. It will be a catastrophic presidency no matter who is elected imho because one half of the country will absolutely detest the choice with a vengeance on account of the gutter campaign. Credibility has been lost before they are even sworn in.

    So start paying attention to the VP candidates. One of them is likely to be in the oval office 4 yrs from now or sooner, because I won't be surprised if one of these two are impeached while in office to get them out.

    I think you're greatly exaggerating. So my question for you would be: How would you react if, against all odds, Hillary's presidency is in fact better than Obama's first four years? How would you react?
    You keep asking these questions in an insinuating manner.

    If, against the odds, her presidency is better than Obama's four years, then I would embrace it and be extremely relieved. The world is a very dangerous place, The US is on the verge of bankruptcy, asset prices are inflated in the Western world, interest rates are below where they should be (short changing savers, mispricing risk & increasing financial instability), income inequality and social strife are at all time highs, and the EU is on the verge of collapse (which could be catastrophic for Western hegemony).

    So please don't ask such a nonsensical question. Nobody here wants the chaos that could very easily occur on the watch of the next president. We all want it to be a success, even though the odds of that are slim to none on account of this divisive and filthy campaign.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 6,601
    Ask your current and future president to stop the war drums on Russias borders. THAT would bring us a gigantic step further into a better world. Fat chance sadly. The US is bankrupt and needs another big the war. As simple as that.
  • Posts: 338
    jobo wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I still don't get this.

    US citizens are voting for the leader of the western world, whose polices affect most people on the planet.

    Over the last 20 years we have seen the rule of the Neocons, who have increasingly centralized power and money towards a global elite. Enriching themselves, through political corruption, they caused a wake of wars, mass migration, and debt crisis.

    Hilary Clinton is a continuation candidate. Trump appears to be something else.
    Yes, something far worse.
    Troy wrote: »
    I still haven't seen on this forum any rational discussion of why trump will be a disaster
    Then you never will. I hate Hillary, but Trump would destroy our world. Or at least, send us into an even bigger cauldron of bigoted, sexist hate than we are in now.

    Why?

    He seems to condemn the western meddling in the Middle East, and I've not noticed him slagging Iran. He also seems conciliatory to wards Russia - in contrast to the current govt who seem to be doing all they can to provoke Russia. Has he said anything about China?

    I'm not particularly trying to defend Trump, just genuinely curious


    You just don't get it do you? Trump is a classic populist. That means he says whatever he thinks people want to hear. In hindsight people have understood meddling in the middle east was a mistake, so of course Trump claims to have been against it all along, although HE supported the war on Iraq and HE pushed for intervention in Libya. Now of course he blames Clinton and Obama for it... Its all lies, nothing more. Based on previous statements he is as war hungry as any general.

    Actually, no, I don't get it - which is why I asked.

    So, you claim Trump is as much a war monger as Clinton. In what way is Trump more of a warmonger than Clinton?

    If Trump wins, are you expecting the US to get involved in more wars than it has over the last 5, 10 or 15 years?
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 7,500
    Troy wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Troy wrote: »
    I still don't get this.

    US citizens are voting for the leader of the western world, whose polices affect most people on the planet.

    Over the last 20 years we have seen the rule of the Neocons, who have increasingly centralized power and money towards a global elite. Enriching themselves, through political corruption, they caused a wake of wars, mass migration, and debt crisis.

    Hilary Clinton is a continuation candidate. Trump appears to be something else.
    Yes, something far worse.
    Troy wrote: »
    I still haven't seen on this forum any rational discussion of why trump will be a disaster
    Then you never will. I hate Hillary, but Trump would destroy our world. Or at least, send us into an even bigger cauldron of bigoted, sexist hate than we are in now.

    Why?

    He seems to condemn the western meddling in the Middle East, and I've not noticed him slagging Iran. He also seems conciliatory to wards Russia - in contrast to the current govt who seem to be doing all they can to provoke Russia. Has he said anything about China?

    I'm not particularly trying to defend Trump, just genuinely curious


    You just don't get it do you? Trump is a classic populist. That means he says whatever he thinks people want to hear. In hindsight people have understood meddling in the middle east was a mistake, so of course Trump claims to have been against it all along, although HE supported the war on Iraq and HE pushed for intervention in Libya. Now of course he blames Clinton and Obama for it... Its all lies, nothing more. Based on previous statements he is as war hungry as any general.

    Actually, no, I don't get it - which is why I asked.

    So, you claim Trump is as much a war monger as Clinton. In what way is Trump more of a warmonger than Clinton?

    If Trump wins, are you expecting the US to get involved in more wars than it has over the last 5, 10 or 15 years?


    I don´t know if he is more war hungry than Hillary, but there is nothing to suggest that he isn´t at least as trigger happy. And at least she seems to have a basic understanding of the Middle East, he doesn´t. Given his general temperament and violent nature he seems more likely to act on impulse, and what does a rhetoric that says "Im gonna beat the crap out of ISIS" tell you? And what about his profiling of muslims and the general world outside of the US? So I guess the answer to your second question is; very likely.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Clinton is the biggest warmonger in this election. What I don't know is are people deliberately ignoring that, or are they just ignorant. Perhaps they think that it's not a big deal, but this kind of behaviour can cause catastrophic consequences.



  • edited October 2016 Posts: 3,564
    One of my least favorite parts of Trump's performance last night was the promise to jail his political rival if total insanity prevails and a President Trump becomes a horrifying reality. Here are several GOP prosecutors telling us that this isn't the American way of doing things: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-clinton-jail-ex-prosecutors-slam-229547 Personally, I'd just like to remind one & all that even Jefferson David (a traitor to the USA if ever there was one) was never jailed. Trump's vision of Presidential behavior is more akin to the performance would would expect of a dictator like his idol, Vlad Putin.
    Here's a little more on this topic: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/donald_trump_tells_hillary_clinton_you_d_be_in_jail.html Finally, folks, at long last: can we all just admit that he'd be a terrible president & move on?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    It was clear months ago that Clinton will win.
    It will be an unprecedented landslide victory of gigantic proportions, so relax people.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,473
    It was clear months ago that Clinton will win.
    It will be an unprecedented landslide victory of gigantic proportions, so relax people.

    I keep saying the same thing. I'm not sure why people keep freaking out about the possibility of Trump winning - it's over.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It was clear months ago that Clinton will win.
    It will be an unprecedented landslide victory of gigantic proportions, so relax people.

    I think the term landslide isn't what the end result will be. I think, as much as it frightens me, the end result will be a lot closer than you'd think.

    Once you've seen video after video of some of Trump's nutty supporters, and how they were willing to support him even when they were tricked by pamphlets of his containing the words of Adolf Hitler instead, you then start to wonder how many of these dangerously simple people are out there.

  • It was clear months ago that Clinton will win.
    It will be an unprecedented landslide victory of gigantic proportions, so relax people.

    I think the term landslide isn't what the end result will be. I think, as much as it frightens me, the end result will be a lot closer than you'd think.

    Once you've seen video after video of some of Trump's nutty supporters, and how they were willing to support him even when they were tricked by pamphlets of his containing the words of Adolf Hitler instead, you then start to wonder how many of these dangerously simple people are out there.


    Check the posting just above yours, @0Brady. The dangerously simple people are all around us.

    And hey, how about the return of Dangerous Donnie's case of the raging sniffles? It's not exactly locker room humor, but at my place of business, if somebody had that bad of a case of sniffles, we'd tell him quite frankly to lay off the cocaine. At least this time his dose didn't wear off 2/3 of the way through the debate this time...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited October 2016 Posts: 28,694
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, I was watching debate coverage this morning and one of the talking heads made the same comparison as you and called Trump a "coke fiend."
  • From Beatles to Talking Heads, musicians know how to identify drug fiends...
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I find this drama around Trump's decade old tape puzzling.

    I wonder if people just were totally desperate to get something into their hands they can blow up artificially to finally create a scenario where Trump could be damaged enough so there wouldn't be a danger he'll win.

    The media plays a very big role in this.

    As unlikely as I think it is Trump will win the election, I still must warn of the possibility that many people will vote for him just because the media and about all of the hated political establishment is so aggressively against him.

    Something similar happens in Germany with a political party that can very well be compared to Trump.

    The more the political establishment and the media in Germany fights aggressively against that party the more successful it gets.
    In 2017 the AfD (that's the name) will probably be the third strongest power behind the ruling parties CDU (middle-conservatives) and SPD (left).

    It's a party for enraged citizens. And so is Trump.

    *I am not for Trump by the way, just in case I make that impression. But I would not vote for Hillary had the Reps chosen someone different, moderate.
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