Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: FYEO
    Title Track: TSWLM
    Title Credits: TSWLM
    Main Villain: FYEO
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Overall Plot: TSWLM
    Dialogue: TSWLM
    Score: TSWLM (very,very close)
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: TSWLM
    Humor: TSWLM
    Cinematography: TSWLM
    Benign Bizarre: FYEO
    Suspense: FYEO
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamor: FYEO
    Ally: FYEO

    Many close calls here. A lot of these could go either way.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2013 Posts: 14,190
    TSWLM v FYEO- this will be interesting. They're what I consider Roger's best two films. They nearly tie in my rankings, although I rate Spy a tad higher for its sheer spectacle.

    PTS: TSWLM- significantly, and needless to say, one of the best.
    Title Track: FYEO- although, they're both pretty average.
    Title Credits: FYEO- if only for Sheena being in it.
    Main Villain: TSWLM- at least Stromberg is menacing.
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO- I like Anya, but Melina's story is more engaging.
    Overall Plot: FYEO- Spy does a good job of recycling YOLT, however.
    Dialogue: FYEO- especially Bond and Columbo's first meeting.
    Score: TSWLM- although FYEO comes close.
    Settings: TSWLM- Switzerland; Egypt; Sardinia; a new sound stage and tank for the Atlantis set. Wonderful.
    Action: TSWLM- more memorable unique stunt (PTS), Lotus chase, big battle finale. It's all there. FYEO's ski chase is epic, however.
    Humour: FYEO- everything Blofeld says; a nose not a banana Q; Thatcher; Max the parrot.
    Cinematography: TSWLM- everything looks grand here.
    Benign Bizarre: TSWLM- Jaws' teeth; the Liparus gobbling up submarines.
    Suspense: TSWLM- the scenes with Jaws at Giza and Luxor are like something out of a horror film. Also, when Bond and Captain Carter watch the missiles pass each other on the display.
    Minor Characters: TSWLM- Shiek Hossein; Naomi; Gogol; Naomi; Max Kalba; Naomi.
    Glamour: TSWLM- Mujaba Club; Anya's dress; Cala di Volpe Hotel.
    Ally: FYEO- Columbo is one the best in the series.

    And, as expected, the results reflect my opening statement.
  • Posts: 2,400
    PTS: TSWLM
    Title Track: TSWLM
    Title Credits: TSWLM
    Main Villain: TSWLM
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Overall Plot: TSWLM
    Dialogue: TSWLM
    Score: TSWLM
    Settings: TSWLM
    Action: TSWLM
    Humor: TSWLM
    Cinematography: TSWLM
    Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
    Suspense: TSWLM
    Minor Characters: TSWLM
    Glamor: TSWLM
    Ally: FYEO

    15-2 for Spy. Did not see that one coming.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    PTS: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Title Track: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Title Credits: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Main Villain: For Your Eyes Only
    Main Bond Girl: For Your Eyes Only
    Overall Plot: For Your Eyes Only
    Dialogue: For Your Eyes Only
    Score: For Your Eyes Only
    Settings: For Your Eyes Only
    Action: For Your Eyes Only
    Humor: For Your Eyes Only
    Cinematography: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Benign Bizarre: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Suspense: For Your Eyes Only
    Minor Characters: For Your Eyes Only
    Glamor: The Spy Who Loved Me
    Ally: For Your Eyes Only
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    PTS: TSWLM
    Title Track: TSWLM
    Title Credits: FYEO
    Main Villain: TSWLM
    Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
    Overall Plot: TSWLM
    Dialogue: TSWLM
    Score: TSWLM
    Settings: TSWLM/FYEO Tie
    Action: TSWLM
    Humor: TSWLM
    Cinematography: TSWLM
    Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
    Suspense: TSWLM
    Minor Characters: TSWLM
    Glamor: TSWLM
    Ally: TSWLM

    TSWLM wins for me in a landslide.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,677
    PTS: TSWLM
    Title Track: FYEO
    Title Credits: FYEO
    Main Villain: TSWLM
    Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
    Overall Plot: TSWLM
    Dialogue: TSWLM
    Score: TSWLM
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: TSWLM
    Humor: FYEO
    Cinematography: FYEO
    Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamor: TSWLM
    Ally: FYEO

    7 - 9, TSWLM, though these films are pretty close in my rankings. I enjoy them both quite a lot.
  • This one turned out to be much more lopsided than I would have expected. Spy wins the categories count 11-5, with one tie. In total points, Spy wins 184-119.

    Here are the specifics:

    PTS 15-3 Spy
    Title Track 14-4 Spy
    Title Credits 13-5 Spy
    Main Villain 13-5 Spy
    Main Bond Girl 12-5 FYEO
    Overall Plot 12-6 Spy
    Dialogue 11-7 FYEO
    Score 9-9 tie
    Settings 12-5 FYEO
    Action 12-6 Spy
    Humor 14-4 Spy
    Cinematography 16-2 Spy
    Benign Bizarre 17-1 Spy
    Suspense 11-6 FYEO
    Minor Characters 14-4 Spy
    Glamor 11-7 Spy
    Ally 17-1 FYEO
  • BTW, I've done all the comparisons I want to do. So, if somebody else wants to continue this thread with pairings of their own, that's fine by me. If you do, I'll change the title for you.
  • Posts: 2,400
    GF vs. SF? They're sort of considered the two definitive Bonds in the public eye: one the most popular, the other the most successful.
  • I think we could do something like From Russia With Love vs. Goldfinger, or GoldenEye vs. Casino Royale. They're all top-tier Bond films and have some similarities (FRWL and GF as the standard-setters, GE and CR as semi-reboots following turmoil in the series).
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    PTS: Spy
    Title Track: Spy
    Title Credits: Spy
    Main Villain: FYEO
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Overall Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: FYEO
    Score: Spy
    Settings: Spy
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: Spy
    Cinematography: Spy
    Benign Bizarre: Spy
    Suspense: FYEO
    Minor Characters: Spy
    Glamor: Spy
    Ally: FYEO
  • Stirred and Sound,

    Take it away, boys, if you like. All of those sound find by me. But if you do run a comparison match, please be good enough to call it when it's done and to tot up the totals.
  • Stirred and Sound,

    Take it away, boys, if you like. All of those sound find by me. But if you do run a comparison match, please be good enough to call it when it's done and to tot up the totals.

    But of course. I suppose you can start, @StirredNotShaken, since you proposed your idea first.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 3,236
    ATTN MODS: I know there was a thread for this previously, but @Perilagu_Khan decided that he had compared all the films he wished to compare and ended his participation. I started a new one so I could change the title, rather than keep it stuck on The Spy Who Loved Me vs. For Your Eyes Only.

    Anyway, in case anyone is unfamiliar with the format or previous match-ups, you can check out the old thread here: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/8111/the-spy-who-loved-me-vs.-for-your-eyes-only-by-the-elements/p1

    In short, we will be comparing two Bond films by the elements, measuring the successes of each in every category and determining the winner. The first match-up will be between two seminal Bond films, who set the template for the series in its more serious and more fanciful entries. Both came early in the series and featured some of the best villains and a genre-defining performance by Sean Connery. Without further ado, From Russia With Love vs. Goldfinger.

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: GF
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL

    *This is a term coined to describe that critical element of the Bond world, going all the way back to Ian Fleming, wherein the reader/viewer is confronted by the bizarre, the otherworldly or the creepy. The Benign Bizarre, however, never veers into the grotesque. This element takes us almost to the edge of the horror or sci-fi genres, but dissipates before it can define the book or film in which it appears.

    Goldfinger takes it for me, 11-6.
  • Bradford4Bradford4 Banned
    edited December 2013 Posts: 152
    I simply enjoy GF on the whole more than FRWL however you can't beat good ol Red Grant and Kerim Beyy

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: GF
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL
  • PTS: FRWL
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: FRWL
    *Benign Bizarre: FRWL
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Ally: FRWL

    FRWL: 11
    GF: 6
  • PTS: FRWL
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL HANDS DOWN
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: Draw
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Ally: FRWL
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    These are always interesting because usually the film I prefer ends up losing!

    PTS: FRWL
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: GF
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL


    FRWL squeaks by 9-8. That sounds about right...
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: GF
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: FRWL
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Ally: FRWL

    FRWL: 8
    GF: 9

    Wow. I rank FRWL higher in my Bond rankings overall although many of these categories are a virtual tie for me.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: GF
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Ally: FRWL
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2013 Posts: 45,489
    Delete
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2013 Posts: 45,489
    Sorry for the double post, had to correct a couple things.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2013 Posts: 45,489
    Title Track: FRWL
    PTS:GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL

    10-7 in favour of FRWL by these criteria although some are really a tie, but both are a strong candidate for best Bond film ever imo. No other three films in a row have achieved this since the three first.


  • edited December 2013 Posts: 316
    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: GF
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizzare: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL

    Close matchup, but FRWL comes out on top 9-8 although many of GF's wins were in more superficial categories. Maybe we should try a weighted score for these comparison as FRWL beats GF for me in all but one of what i consider major categories (Main Villain, Main Bond Girl, Overall Plot, Action, Minor Characters, Score), as I like FRWL (#7) much better than GF (#12).
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Just curious, in FRWL do most people consider the main villain Rosa Klebb or Donald Grant?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2013 Posts: 14,190
    @DB5 I don't consider Grant the main villain, as he doesn't help prepare the plan.

    Love both these films, but FRWL has been my top film for many, many years.

    PTS: GF - one of the absolute best, and by far the best 'non-stunt' PTS.
    Title Track: GF - I like both, but GF is more epic.
    Title Credits: FRWL. GF is great, but I prefer the warping of the projections on the belly dancer's magnificent abdomen.
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL, although GF's plan to make the gold radioactive is very good.
    Dialogue: FRWL. Bond and Grant's conversion is a highlight.
    Score: GF. For me, the highlight is the music Bonita is dancing to in the PTS, and the Miami intro.
    Settings: GF
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF - lightens up quite a bit after DN and FRWL.
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL - any scene with Grant is suspenseful
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL - Kerim Bey

    A near tie, with FRWL in the lead.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DB5 wrote:
    Just curious, in FRWL do most people consider the main villain Rosa Klebb or Donald Grant?

    Good question. Grant reports to Klebb but Klebb reports to Blofeld. A good argument can be made that SPECTRE No. 1 is FRWL's true main villain although he and Bond never meet in this particular adventure.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL

    FRWL: 9

    GF: 8
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: GF
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL
  • Posts: 7,653
    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    *Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: GF
    Ally: FRWL

    FRWL is a brilliant movie and John Barry does his first Bondian soundtrack that creates the mood/style for his further work for the franchise. Sean Connery is still a lean and mean Spy and Istanbul and the trainwork are excellently done.
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