The Fast and the Furious (2001 - present)

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  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2017 Posts: 4,399
    i honestly didn't think this new one would pass the $1b mark.. i thought that PW's death (much like HL's with TDK) would have inflated the 7th's into a stratosphere that it couldn't possibly reach again... looks like i was wrong, and that this one stands an excellent chance of surpassing F7's $1.5b sooner, rather than later..

    .. and it does beg the question - should Bond post-Craig re-embrace a similar style of action movie?.. the F&F movies are dumb loud fun, but there is also just enough substance to the actual story and characters - which is what keeps it from completely going off the rails... should Bond go a similar route?... i only ask this, because outside of SF, Bond has a very hard time cracking that $1b mark - and outside of SF and SP, the closest it ever gotten was CR with $599m.... I don't think Bond needs to go full on DAD again, but i believe there might be some room for a middle ground there - something that i thought SP kind of achieved - one foot kept in what got them there, but the other foot deep into some old fashioned fun as well..

    two questions...

    - moving forward, does Bond need to consistently be part of the Billion Dollar club in order to be considered a success?

    - in order for Bond to achieve higher B.O. success, does it need to take a cue from films like F&F and other Superhero movies, and bring less of an edge, but a little more casualness to the films? - or, does it really just all boil down to simplest answer, and thats just write GOOD Bond films, and try not to do what everyone else is doing?...

    ... i dont want this thread to get too OT, but i figured i would pose this question here - since it does more or less correlate to F&F
  • Posts: 6,432
    @haserot I would not go full on DAD though I think the Bond films have been lacking the fun element of late, Eon do at times follow the current market so a outlandish Bond film is a possibility the Fast series have struck gold with there tone of movie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @haserot, I seriously contemplated your questions when watching FF8 in the theatre. I am concerned, because I can imagine the temptation for MGM/EoN to go in this direction will be great. e.g. a multi-ethnic cast, CGI stunts up the wazoo, and the sort of cheap thrill jokes that appeal to foreign markets and translate easily.

    I sincerely hope they don't go in this direction. The last time they attempted to 'dumb down' Bond and appeal to a lowest common denominator was during Brosnan's run, and sadly I felt the product became cheapened.

    I postulated on another thread that there is a gap between the MI films and the FF films at the moment. Bond currently plays in the spy thriller market, FF plays in the pure action market and MI straddles the two quite well, and increasingly infringes on the Bond space with glamour.

    If they're smart, I hope EoN will retain the high style Britishness (thereby differentiating it from MI) & intelligence of the product while ensuring that the films have one or two superior and impactful action pieces, done for real, rather than od'ing on CGI to up the ante as it were.

    I think they will need to change the actor before they go in this direction however, because for this to work the actor will have to easily and naturally convey an insouciance, a savoir faire and a certain casual arrogance.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    @bondjames The recently announced Fast & Furious spinoff with Dwayne Johnson and Jason Statham will be interesting to see, because with those 2 head-lining the film, I think we might get a lot more straight-up badass fist-fights, which I have to say is one of the areas where the F&F films rival the best the genre has to offer. The prison fight in the 'Fate of the Furious' was very entertaining to witness when I saw the film in theater 2 weeks ago.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited April 2017 Posts: 11,139
    Another of EoN's problems is that they have a history of jumping on the bandwagon of whatever's popular and going OTT with other, mossing what, why, where and how it worked; being nowhere near as good as what they're trying to ape. Bond just needs to keep things simple and utilise it's own heritage of essences that made the films so exciting originally. They have all the tools they need; they just need the right people to use them.

    Now I'm not saying EoN should ignore what others are doing but they really need to look at the how and the why and to be honest, many of these successful franchises are doing what Bond was doing 50 years ago. EoN to some degree have lost their way but can easily remedy the situation. They just need to be better focused.

    Do NOT go all out DAD on us. That would be disastrous. Make the films akin to CR tonally, tell an exciting story; it doesnt need to be THAT deep, keep the films honestly brutal, he's a trained killer for crying out loud and please please please, let's go somewhere else other than Italy! The locations don't even have to be some unused never seen before on film country; but at least make the location a character within the film and lets feel immersed like what used to be the case.
  • Posts: 4,026
    Everything gets more serious than Bond in Bourne, so EON head that direction. Now it gets more stoopid and crazy than Bond so we have to head that direction.

    They do have a fine selection of actors with little hair in F&F, so we can cast the next Blofeld with ease.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Another of EoN's problems is that they have a history of jumping on the bandwagon of whatever's popular and going OTT with other, mossing what, why, where and how it worked; being nowhere near as good as what they're trying to ape. Bond just needs to keep things simple and utilise it's own heritage of essences that made the films so exciting originally. They have all the tools they need; they just need the right people to use them.

    Now I'm not saying EoN should ignore what others are doing but they really need to look at the how and the why and to be honest, many of these successful franchises are doing what Bond was doing 50 years ago. EoN to some degree have lost their way but can easily remedy the situation. They just need to be better focused.

    Do NOT go all out DAD on us. That would be disastrous. Make the films akin to CR tonally, tell an exciting story; it doesnt need to be THAT deep, keep the films honestly brutal, he's a trained killer for crying out loud and please please please, let's go somewhere else other than Italy! The locations don't even have to be some unused never seen before on film country; but at least make the location a character within the film and lets feel immersed like what used to be the case.
    Excellent post and I agree. Some competitors are aping Bond better than EoN is and that's never good.

    The locations have to be immersive, as we've noted here before. Keep it simple, keep it focused as you say, and above all remember that Bond is Bond and not Vin Diesel.

    Indeed they have all they need in their film DNA to give us something spectacular, if they'd only dig deep and keep it real. Good writers would be able to organically tap that Bondian essence without making it look like it's a cheap copy of the past. I have my doubts that P&W can do it, but let's see.
    ---

    @DaltonCraig007, I agree on that prison fight in FF8. I'll confess that I am looking forward to the Johnson/Statham spinoff.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited April 2017 Posts: 4,461
    Time that Universal consider The Netherlands.


    Comercial made for Dutch tv channel Veronica promoting
    The May film month with Vin Diesel drives as his chacfer from furious on a road in Amsterdam.


    Also the movie opens with almoost 2,7 million and after 2 weaks it doing 4,8. Furious 7 did almoost 3-million in first weak and after two weaks 5,2.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited April 2017 Posts: 9,020
    The comparison between Bond and FF BO wise is quite ridiculous.

    Get it into your heads people. SF was an absolute exception due to the best marketing campaign ever for a film with the 50th Anniversary.

    ONLY 29 FILMS SO FAR HAVE EVER SURPASSED THE BILLION DOLLAR MARK. And that includes this year's Beauty And The Beast and FF8.

    29.

    Spectre with 890 million is the 47th most successful film of all time, just to show you how ridiculously difficult it still is really for a film to go beyond 900 million.

    FF has elevated to that billion dollar franchise. Because it has the kind of audience that will get them one billion or more.

    Just look at the list of those 29 films that reached a billion. SF is like an alien in the midsts of fantasy, comic book and sci-fi movies.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
    Here you find the complete list of worldwide most successful BOs of all time
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2017 Posts: 4,399
    No, comparing Bond box office with say Star Wars, that's ridiculous... Comparing it to F&F is not unrealistic - it's an action movie, who's core audience is a niche market.. sounds a lot like Bond, no?

    Plus the target audiences demo, is almost the same
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I actually agree with practically all of your post @haserot

    I just don't think Bond has to do one billion nor should it or ever will again (inflation in future not taken into account).

    FF is fantasy with fast cars and big muscled guys and sexy looking girls. That's not a niche market in my opinion.

    Bond isn't niche as well, but it's a genre that can only do that much, just look at Mission Impossible for instance.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,566
    I don't think there's anything wrong with the box office totals of Bond lately, sans the unnecessarily massive budgets. If SF grossed $800-850 million, nobody would've ever mentioned SP's returns in a negative light, which is still a success no matter which way you cut it. Would've looked even better if they chipped $50-100 million off of that budget.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Personally, I don't care either way.. I just don't want the success of a Bond film called into question when it makes $950m world wide - but i guess that's only because of the outrageous near $300m production budget.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,566
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Personally, I don't care either way.. I just don't want the success of a Bond film called into question when it makes $950m world wide - but i guess that's only because of the outrageous near $300m production budget.

    It doesn't really matter if "the success of a Bond film (is) called into question" when it was factually a success. As I said, would've been even better for them with a lower budget, but still, a success.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i misspoke about "called in question" in terms of success.... we all know it broke even and was financially a success... i guess what i am getting at, is that i wish (moving forward) they don't have to work as hard as SP did - because with PD budget combined with everything else, SP needed to break north of $650m-$700m in order to be deemed a financial success at the box office..

    but then i guess what that really boils down to, moving forward, is not letting the PD budget get completely out of hand.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    And there we have it...a $Billion crossed.

    The Fate of the Furious Uni. $19,389,780 -49.5%

    Domestic: $192,721,355 18.2%
    + Foreign: $867,600,000 81.8%
    = Worldwide: $1,060,321,355

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=furious8.htm
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That was fast! These guys are on a roll. The only franchise outside of the Marvel/DC lot and the cartoon fare to be able to deliver like this twice.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    To take with a grain of salt, but after Vin Diesel uploaded a picture of New York with 'Fast 8' written on it shortly after 'Furious 7' was released, and it turned out to really be one of the main locations for 'Fate of the Furious', it seems that this time, Tyrese Gibson has uploaded an image of Matt Damon with 'Fast 9' written on it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Bourne vs. Torreto, Hobbs & Shaw. I'm there.

    Matt plays a great villain (Talented Mr. Ripley and Interstellar) too.
  • Posts: 11,119
    HASEROT wrote: »
    I thought F8 was better than Furious 7, but still not on par with 4 or Fast 5... I wish they'd scale back the climaxes.. I don't know if Vin is getting Fast & Furious confused with xXx, but they kind of both feel the same right now... Plus I never really bought into the fact that this rag tag group of grease monkey street racers, are now somehow the an elite spec ops unit.. That's a bit too much... The movies are still fun though, I just wish they'd dial it back a little.

    I think F 5 and 6 were much better. Real heist movies. Ocean's 11, but then rougher and more 'street'. Also the car chases seemed very much real.

    F 7 to me was OK-ish, although with the skidiving cars F 7 already headed into " Die Another Day" terrirtories.

    Now, yesterday I saw "Furious 8", and by jolly was this bad. I mean, really really bad. If we complain about "SPECTRE" using too much CGI, then this was the start of CGI-porn. My God, the plot was farfetched as well. The falling cars from skycrapers, the grotesque, idiot 'car war' on the Russian ice lake. And then this crap still manages to earn 1.2 Billion Dollars worldwide. I just hope the Chinese and Russians -who are starting to become very big and influential cinema markets- aren't becoming as important for Bond as they are for "Furious". This was just...ghastly.....
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,049
    HASEROT wrote: »
    I thought F8 was better than Furious 7, but still not on par with 4 or Fast 5... I wish they'd scale back the climaxes.. I don't know if Vin is getting Fast & Furious confused with xXx, but they kind of both feel the same right now... Plus I never really bought into the fact that this rag tag group of grease monkey street racers, are now somehow the an elite spec ops unit.. That's a bit too much... The movies are still fun though, I just wish they'd dial it back a little.

    I think F 5 and 6 were much better. Real heist movies. Ocean's 11, but then rougher and more 'street'. Also the car chases seemed very much real.

    F 7 to me was OK-ish, although with the skidiving cars F 7 already headed into " Die Another Day" terrirtories.

    Now, yesterday I saw "Furious 8", and by jolly was this bad. I mean, really really bad. If we complain about "SPECTRE" using too much CGI, then this was the start of CGI-porn. My God, the plot was farfetched as well. The falling cars from skycrapers, the grotesque, idiot 'car war' on the Russian ice lake. And then this crap still manages to earn 1.2 Billion Dollars worldwide. I just hope the Chinese and Russians -who are starting to become very big and influential cinema markets- aren't becoming as important for Bond as they are for "Furious". This was just...ghastly.....

    At least in 7 the skydiving cars had a practical element to it in that they did drop shells out of a real plane for certain shots.

    8 was utter rubbish. Theron and Statham were the saving graces of the film, and even then it wasn't enough. Plus, I hate the fact that they have completely done a reversal on Deckard Shaw's character. He killed Han in 7 and then attempted to kill the rest of them, and now they're all chummy? For a series that likes to go to hammy-town on the idea of family, that was screenwriting vomit. If you're going to be ridiculous, at least be consistent with your characters.

    Fast Five is as good as it is going to get for this series. A rip-roaring actioner that embraced its craziness without being insulting to your intelligence. Loads of fun.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited October 2017 Posts: 15,694
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 @bondjames @MajorDSmythe @DarthDimi @doubleoego @Creasy47 @ClarkDevlin

    After 'Mission Imposible: Rogue Nation' on July 31, 2015, after 'Jason Bourne' on July 29, 2016, after 'Atomic Blonde' on July 28, 2017, and after 'Mission Impossible 6' on July 27, 2018... It is now turn for the Fast & Furious spinoff with Dwayne Johnson & Jason Statham to lock its target on this specific weekend, with a release date aimed for July 26, 2019.

    Fast & Furious 9 has been pushed back to April 10, 2020 to make room for the spinoff.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm actually really glad to read this. It could end up being a more focused action thriller with just the two of them involved, as opposed to the bloated CGI fests that the main series has become of late.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    @bondjames 2019 is starting to look like another packed year with action films, with dates now set for this F&F spin-off, Top Gun 2 and John Wick 3.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I had actually forgotten about Top Gun 2 @DaltonCraig007. That's the one I really don't know enough about. I've actually not seen the first one (all I know about it is that TC is in it and there were two massive hit songs from it) and must get to it soon.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'm very glad about that Hobbs/Shaw spin-off. I also see it as buying some more time to focus on the CGI Paul Walker face as they're planning to bring O'Connor back for one last ride in one of the last Fast & Furious films.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,566
    Shane Black is in talks to direct that spin-off, too. Should be good!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Simon West, please! :D
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ooowh no
    21a32bd4e939f9a11f0c638a1935e7dd--emoticons-smiley-faces.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    You don't have to watch it, you know?

    I mean... it's exactly opposite of the "real life" thing you look for in movies.
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