SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    edited February 2013 Posts: 4,012
    hoppimike wrote:
    I just rewatched the first... 2/3rds perhaps of GoldenEye. I agree that the later Brosnan films were quite tongue-in-cheek. I think GoldenEye strikes an absolutely perfect balance between tongue-in-cheek and realistic/gritty.

    Skyfall... I felt like it couldn't make its mind up. On the one hand, I felt that it was actually darker than Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, which I found quite bright and vibrant despite their (sometimes) violent content. On the other, it tried to inject humour into what I felt was a fundamentally dark and quite depressing movie.

    It just made no sense to me. Looking at the harsh black and white of the film's branding, that fits the film very well to me - an uncomfortable mix of attempted quite extreme light and dark with no careful blending or intelligent merging of the two. It was like "dramatic, dark scene -> cheesy joke -> dramatic, dark scene -> cheesy joke".

    Just not my style at all.

    How many of the Bond films have you seen now, as I'm guessing you haven't seen that many. Also, how many of the Fleming novels have you read?

    I was going to pose that question yesterday but then I thought, I'm in such a good mood so why bother? I'm glad you took the iniciative @jetsetwilly.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    @Shardlake The Q scenes in LTK are a bit jarring but they makes sense, Q would want to help Bond and it's still the same Q, they're still going to have the same relationship.

    The casino fight sort of comes out of nowhere. The film up until then had been fairly dark, then you get Severine's tragic backstory and Bond gets attacked, has a fight that has no sense of danger whatsoever, wins because of a gadget, steps on a komodo dragon and spouts two one liners in a row.
  • Posts: 11,189
    The humour levels? The gadgets? Did I miss something here? There was the same amount of humour in SF as there was in the last 2 Craig films - ie. kept to a bare minimum.

    I thought SF had more humour than the last two Craig films put together. Lots more one liners (especially in the casino bit), and there was the old couple on the platform, the bit with M in the DB5, Kincade calling Bond a jumped up little sh*t, etc.
    I'm dead against humour in Bond films, but I have to say my Austin Powers parody detector didn't go off once with any of these light relief moments in SF. I thought the level was just right.

    I like humour in Bond films and moments that make me smile. What I don't like is cringe-worthy silliness. I don't think SF had that.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Shardlake wrote:
    Just because somebody doesn't share your views doesn't mean they're watching the films with rose tinted specs. Some people might just like different things to you? Ever think of that?

    Nobody will top Desmond as Q and I don't prefer the new computer whizz Q just because he's "fresher"
    The humour levels? The gadgets? Did I miss something here? There was the same amount of humour in SF as there was in the last 2 Craig films - ie. kept to a bare minimum.

    I thought SF had more humour than the last two Craig films put together. Lots more one liners (especially in the casino bit), and there was the old couple on the platform, the bit with M in the DB5, Kincade calling Bond a jumped up little sh*t, etc.
    I'm dead against humour in Bond films, but I have to say my Austin Powers parody detector didn't go off once with any of these light relief moments in SF. I thought the level was just right.

    I loved most of the humour but I thought the entire casino fight was at odds with the rest of the film. Would've been great in a Moore flick but in Skyfall, especially after the Severine bit just before (where she talked about her past as a prossy), it felt a bit jarring.

    TLR you are just opinated and woud you apply the same logic to your beloved LTK?

    The Q sequences are just as if not more jarring to the overrall plot of the film infact that film far morr uneven than SF, it strikes far more of a better balance.

    I love DL obviously but I can see where you are coming from @Shardlake. I agree about the Q scene in that film. Why would DL risk his job for a man I'm not sure he really liked all that much?

    Also, even before the Brosnan films, how many times did DL say "pay attention 007"?

    Personally I think SF is a far better film than LTK if anything for its cinematography (though I still enjoy it). I even accept SF is a better film than GE (and I LOVE that film).
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    I haven't been back into it long :)

    But ultimately a good film should stand up as a good film regardless.

    I know Skyfall is popular, but so are McDonald's, Lady Gaga and Harry Potter.

    I dunno, just wasn't my thing at all. Too dark and too jokey all at once, with a ridiculous ending.

    I hope the future Craig films aren't like this, or I'll just do what I did with Brosnan and sit it out until they get good again!

    I'm about to watch Dr. No for the first time within the next 1-2 days (just finished rewatching GoldenEye - ADORE that film!) so that should be great!
  • Posts: 3,279
    hoppimike wrote:
    I haven't been back into it long :)

    But ultimately a good film should stand up as a good film regardless.

    I know Skyfall is popular, but so are McDonald's, Lady Gaga and Harry Potter.

    I dunno, just wasn't my thing at all. Too dark and too jokey all at once, with a ridiculous ending.

    I hope the future Craig films aren't like this, or I'll just do what I did with Brosnan and sit it out until they get good again!

    I'm about to watch Dr. No for the first time within the next 1-2 days (just finished rewatching GoldenEye - ADORE that film!) so that should be great!

    GE, isn't that the film where its too dark one minute, then too jokey the next?

    And you think SF has a ridiculous ending? Your comments don't stack up, mate. Have you watched any of the other Bond films before, because it sounds to me like you haven't. You sound like an alien who has just landed on Planet Earth, and been told for the very first time that there is a fictional character called James Bond.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    GE, isn't that the film where its too dark one minute, then too jokey the next?

    And you think SF has a ridiculous ending? Your comments don't stack up, mate. Have you watched any of the other Bond films before, because it sounds to me like you haven't. You sound like an alien who has just landed on Planet Earth, and been told for the very first time that there is a fictional character called James Bond.

    hm, well, think what you want :)

    GoldenEye wasn't dark o.O

    And yeah I think Skyfall does have a ridiculous ending... I know that sounds a bit harsh but... it's so similar to Home Alone. It just didn't feel like a James Bond movie.

    But anyway I mean, I don't think either one of us will convince each other! All art is subjective at the end of the day, including movies. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that :)
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Honestly, what do you really know about Bond films @hoppimike? How would you define the "feel" of a James Bond film? I accept criticism from people who know what they are talking about, but I honestly don't think you do.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Sandy wrote:
    Honestly, what do you really know about Bond films @hoppimike? How would you define the "feel" of a James Bond film? I accept criticism from people who know what they are talking about, but I honestly don't think you do.

    Each to his own. I'm getting a bit sick if this constant barrage of abuse people receive for not liking Skyfall. Any other film is fair game, but a few of you act like you were personally involved in the production, and it is therefore hurtful for others to criticise it.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    edited February 2013 Posts: 4,012
    RC7 wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    Honestly, what do you really know about Bond films @hoppimike? How would you define the "feel" of a James Bond film? I accept criticism from people who know what they are talking about, but I honestly don't think you do.

    Each to his own. I'm getting a bit sick if this constant barrage of abuse people receive for not liking Skyfall. Any other film is fair game, but a few of you act like you were personally involved in the production, and it is therefore hurtful for others to criticise it.

    No, this is not about liking Skyfall or not. I have never attacked anybody for not liking Skyfall, as long as people are reasonable about it. This is about this guy posing as a big Bond fan and talking about what "feels" like a Bond film when in fact he just saw a couple of films, that's all.
    I wouldn't go to Star Trek forums criticizing the latest film or judging what a ST film should or not fell/look like because I have no authority to do so. I'm not a Trekkie, and I didn't see all the films and series! So my opinion about them is simply as a standard cinema goer. The same thing applies to Bond and to the people who visit this forum.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    To be fair all @hoppimike has done is state his opinion. He's been polite and reasonable, which is more than can be said about the people that have replied to him (I suggest you follow another franchise, you don't know what you're talking about, etc).
    Sandy wrote:
    This is about this guy posing as a big Bond fan and talking about what "feels" like a Bond film when in fact he just saw a couple of films, that's all.

    We have members who are only here because of the video games, members who are only here because of Daniel Craig, we even have one member that's only here because of Adele. And lots of these members involve themselves with dicussions involving the movies.

    So I don't see why @hoppimike can't have the right to come on these forums and talk about what feels like a Bond film even though he hasn't seen them all.

    He's liked some of the films he's seen enough to have joined a fan forum about it so what's the problem? And at least he's here because of Bond instead of Adele or a Bond actor.
  • Posts: 6,601
    He can come here and voice his opinion, just has to take in other opinions, even ridicule or whatever sort of beating like the rest of us. ;)
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,497
    ^Right...there is no "How many times have you seen all the Bond films" litmus test to participate on this forum. How many members have read all of the Fleming novels? I would wager less than half...
    hoppimike wrote:
    Skyfall... I felt like it couldn't make its mind up. On the one hand, I felt that it was actually darker than Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, which I found quite bright and vibrant despite their (sometimes) violent content. On the other, it tried to inject humour into what I felt was a fundamentally dark and quite depressing movie.

    It just made no sense to me. Looking at the harsh black and white of the film's branding, that fits the film very well to me - an uncomfortable mix of attempted quite extreme light and dark with no careful blending or intelligent merging of the two. It was like "dramatic, dark scene -> cheesy joke -> dramatic, dark scene -> cheesy joke".

    You know, you have a point. You can compare the same argument to FYEO, which had a much more down to Earth story without outrageous gadgets and villains, but then film would throw in some strange humour like the hockey goons, or the talking parrot.

    But I disagree to an extent about the humour-drama balance. Skyfall had a more over-the-top ostentatious villain in Silva and the PTS had some lighter moments as well, so I think that set the tone. FRWL was a pretty serious Bond film overall, but still had some humorous moments, like "The mechanism is... Oh James, James... Will you make love to me all the time in England?" Humour has always been part of the Bond tradition. But I get what your saying abou the "dark" look of the film: all the Underground shots, the nightime shots, the dimly lit interiors.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    so what's the problem?

    He criticised SF. Not sure there would be such a hoo-hah over AVTAK.

  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    To be fair all @hoppimike has done is state his opinion. He's been polite and reasonable, which is more than can be said about the people that have replied to him (I suggest you follow another franchise, you don't know what you're talking about, etc).
    Sandy wrote:
    This is about this guy posing as a big Bond fan and talking about what "feels" like a Bond film when in fact he just saw a couple of films, that's all.

    We have members who are only here because of the video games, members who are only here because of Daniel Craig, we even have one member that's only here because of Adele. And lots of these members involve themselves with dicussions involving the movies.

    So I don't see why @hoppimike can't have the right to come on these forums and talk about what feels like a Bond film even though he hasn't seen them all.

    He's liked some of the films he's seen enough to have joined a fan forum about it so what's the problem? And at least he's here because of Bond instead of Adele or a Bond actor.

    Thank you for the friendly post :)

    I know I've been a bit harsh on Skyfall and I know I'm not as well-versed in the Bond movies as a lot of you. Truth is I just loved the Bond movies I HAVE seen and adored CR and QoS and felt let down by Skyfall, that's all.

    Of course, I like a lot of different movies and games and what-not and there are a LOT of Bond films, so I mean, I think there will be a lot of people who have only seen a scattering of them.

    I'll try not to lay into Skyfall as much... to be honest I don't know why it bothered me as much as it did o.O
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Don't read in my comment something I didn't write. I didn't say he shouldn't be here, what I'm saying is that he can't say whether SF feels or not like a Bond film if he just saw a couple of them. How does he know how a Bond film really feel like? He can say whatever he wants about SF as a film in general but not it's qualities or defects as a Bond film!
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    RC7 wrote:
    so what's the problem?

    He criticised SF. Not sure there would be such a hoo-hah over AVTAK.

    With the DVD coming out I thought all this immaculate best Bond ever hype would be dying down by now to be honest.
    Sandy wrote:
    Don't read in my comment something I didn't write. I didn't say he shouldn't be here, what I'm saying is that he can't say whether SF feels or not like a Bond film if he just saw a couple of them. How does he know how a Bond film really feel like? He can say whatever he wants about SF as a film in general but not it's qualities or defects as a Bond film!

    He saw a couple of them. A couple of Bond films. Therefore I think he has the right to say if he doesn't think it feels like a Bond film.

    If he'd said "SF feels like pure Bond" then I doubt you'd be saying "you can't say that because you haven't seen them all" It's just because he's taken a negative view you'vd decided to bring that up and use it against him.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    Hm, thanks!

    Truthfully I think I've seen... 7 Bond films and will watch my 8th soon. So not only a couple lol

    Plus I played the GoldenEye and QoS video games to death haha ^^
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 23,564
    Sandy wrote:
    Don't read in my comment something I didn't write. I didn't say he shouldn't be here, what I'm saying is that he can't say whether SF feels or not like a Bond film if he just saw a couple of them. How does he know how a Bond film really feel like? He can say whatever he wants about SF as a film in general but not it's qualities or defects as a Bond film!

    Risky thing to say, @Sandy, but to be fair, I understand where you come from. It takes multiple viewings of all the Bonds and - preferably - at least one passage through all the Fleming novels, before having built up sufficient legitimacy to convincingly analyse the Bondian qualities of a Bond film on a forum crowded with Bond connoisseurs. I'd almost argue that induction, which seems to be @hoppimike's MO, is in these matters weaker than deduction, to which most of us cling.
    hoppimike wrote:
    Truthfully I think I've seen... 7 Bond films and will watch my 8th soon. So not only a couple lol

    Plus I played the GoldenEye and QoS video games to death lol ^^

    Well, to be honest, anyone who's seen for example all four of the Brosnans and all three of the Craigs is still far away from 'knowing his Bond' so to speak. It really helps if you've seen them all in the double (or even triple) digits, like most of us. ;-)

    Honestly, the games don't matter. ;-)

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Thanks @DarthDimi, you understood what I meant.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Negativity is always something, people should be double careful with. You guys or some here attack positive sides - so there is your balance. There is NO difference here.
    Its getting more and more not a discussion about topics, but a battle between people, who seem to have taken a dislike towards each other. I always know in advance, who will answer to what I write and more or less, what. Maybe its the other way around, too, but it gets tiring. I have my shadows following me and maybe should be more flattered...hm..

    The way out? Not taking stuff personal. Its all just opinions. Peace folks..
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    hoppimike wrote:
    GE, isn't that the film where its too dark one minute, then too jokey the next?

    And you think SF has a ridiculous ending? Your comments don't stack up, mate. Have you watched any of the other Bond films before, because it sounds to me like you haven't. You sound like an alien who has just landed on Planet Earth, and been told for the very first time that there is a fictional character called James Bond.

    hm, well, think what you want :)

    GoldenEye wasn't dark o.O

    And yeah I think Skyfall does have a ridiculous ending... I know that sounds a bit harsh but... it's so similar to Home Alone. It just didn't feel like a James Bond movie.

    But anyway I mean, I don't think either one of us will convince each other! All art is subjective at the end of the day, including movies. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that :)

    I'm afraid I think GoldenEye is utter dross, but the comparison with SF is still apt. I wouldn't quite put SF in the same category as GE purely because Craig is an infinitely better Bond, but I find both films very disappointing.

  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Personally I don't think people should be allowed past the point of entry around here unless they have seen ALL the official films. That should be a minimum requirement for Mi6. ;)

    It just seems you are setting yourselves up for a fall if you haven't.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    I think though that the series should be allowed to evolve. I like the 90s and 00s styles... Skyfall I guess echoed the older films more in some ways. Again, it's all personal preference.

    I wonder which films would be Fleming's favourites :-)
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    hoppimike wrote:
    I think though that the series should be allowed to evolve. I like the 90s and 00s styles... Skyfall I guess echoed the older films more in some ways. Again, it's all personal preference.

    I wonder which films would be Fleming's favourites :-)

    Hmmm... the only 'old films ' it reminded me of were the Purvis and Wade-plotted catastophes of the Brosnan era.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Getafix wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    I think though that the series should be allowed to evolve. I like the 90s and 00s styles... Skyfall I guess echoed the older films more in some ways. Again, it's all personal preference.

    I wonder which films would be Fleming's favourites :-)

    Hmmm... the only 'old films ' it reminded me of were the Purvis and Wade-plotted catastophes of the Brosnan era.

    I felt like SF had the best written dialogue of all the Purvis and Wade Bonds, possibly because of John Logan.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Hm, and strange that some people didn't like GoldenEye... what was wrong with it?
  • Posts: 1,407
    hoppimike wrote:
    Hm, and strange that some people didn't like GoldenEye... what was wrong with it?

    It's the great thing about Bond fans. I can't see why you don't like Skyfall and you and I both can't see why others don't like Goldeneye.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    Such a random comment, but I'm really glad that Kincade didn't die during the finale of the film, just for the sake of his death deriving from Bond bringing it to his front door. I would've felt terrible.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Such a random comment, but I'm really glad that Kincade didn't die during the finale of the film, just for the sake of his death deriving from Bond bringing it to his front door. I would've felt terrible.

    It would have been the predictable thing for Kincade to die. I was half expecting it. When Silva walked into the church and shot the wall next to Kincade I half jumped out of my seat. I'm very glad he didn't die. It would have been too much for Bond for sure
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