SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • Skyfall is a masterpiece........don't like it?= Not a Bond fan this is for TRUE LOYAL FLEMING FANS NO PARODY NO GADGET CLASSIC
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    Errrmmm... The debate above.

    Ie, is SF a work of earth shattering genius or just overhyped and a bit dull?

    Well, it really is for those that like the thematic material and true Bond pride the film has. You may not like all that, but the themes of morality, Hero/Villain doppelganger dichotomy, loyalty vs. betrayal, old v.s. new, rising and falling and of course the masterpiece Tennyson scene (the hallmark of the film and series as a whole) and so much more are very clever and brilliant aspects of this film that make most before it that take the lazy "Bond is a superhero" approach seem amateur in comparison, and they are given a severe gut punch. Skyfall, now more than ever (as well as OHMSS, TLD, LTK, CR and QoS in the past) have proven that Bond films can not only be pleasing in the avenues of action and adventure, but can in addition have the deep drama found in enduring film classics of the past and present. THIS Bond is the one I want to see, not some jokey fool that is about as deep and dimensional as a circle drawn on a piece of paper. For this and more, I turn to Sean, Tim and Dan when I want Bond done right.

    It's an agree to disagree situation. I could never put SF in the same league as early Bond or even highly enjoyable later entries like TLD. I don't personally think it was even up to the same standard as CR or QoS. Neither am I a Moore hater either. Give me Spy, FYEO or even OP over SF any day. There's more tesnion and genuine drama in the last half hour of OP than the whole ponderous two and a half of SF.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Skyfall is a masterpiece........don't like it?= Not a Bond fan this is for TRUE LOYAL FLEMING FANS NO PARODY NO GADGET CLASSIC

    Just a DB5 with front mounted machine guns.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Mate, he was shot in the shoulder twice, fell off a train going 50 miles per hour, and collided with the water, drifting uncontrollably for who knows how long. That's going to wreck you and throw off your aim, especially when you have been in a pill and drink addled mess for weeks on end like Bond is when he is recovering.

    As you will see in the shooting range scene, as he is shooting and missing he tugs on his shoulder from the pain as well as because he knows it is what is throwing his aim off.

    After the scene he cuts out the bullet shrapnel and gives it to forensics to look at. After it is out of his shoulder his aim is obviously back.

    That's not self-sabotage by EON and Mendes, that's clever filmmaking.

    I guess. I just didn't feel that the dark undertones sat well with the constant (cheap) jokes.

    Also, I got bored quickly of them continuously calling Daniel Craig old... he only started 6 years ago xD
    fanbond123 wrote:
    Overall I think the opening pre-credit action scene was the best moment in Skyfall. Had the film contained one, or even two more scenes like that I think the film would have been better. I thought the final Skyfall house battle was quite good, exciting and ended with M dying, a major change in Bond's universe, but the overall film would have benefited from one spectacular action scene around the 1 hour mark. I didn't find the train scene that thrilling although the lead-up to the train crash was good.

    I guess it's virtually impossible to film huge action scene in London's Underground. The authorities would never permit it so the film makers had to scale down the action. An empty train crashing - one that clearly looked CGI enhanced - wasn't quite as thrilling as it might have seen written in the screenplay. In hindsight I think a gas attack on the London Underground might have been more exciting. Bond has to stop Silva before he releases the gas onto a main station! Heck, even a big fight inside a tube carriage might have upped the drama stakes. That could have been shot on a set with a 'built to scale' series of carriages. That way you avoid shooting the scene in a real station.

    Hm, that sounds kinda cool even to me :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    @hoppimike, considering his Bond is in his 40s, that is very old for men still in the field. Look at what just 8 years does to US presidents or other leaders around the globe! Being that Bond is a spy, six years in active duty can be a lifetime. The amount of stress and horrors operatives can see in that short time can build up and make wrecks of men like Bond every day. Though he has been with MI6 for a short time he has also seen enough nightmares and felt more pain for a lifetime.

    Let us also consider that he has prior service before he became a 00, and we have no idea what horrors he saw at a younger age. The great thing about Dan's Bond is, you can see his dark history in his face and eyes.
  • Posts: 2,081
    The great thing about Dan's Bond is, you can see his dark history in his face and eyes.

    True. That really makes his portrayal of the character so believable.

  • Posts: 11,425
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Getafix wrote:
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.

    100% agree! :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote:
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.

    One film, but it took many years to make. Think of all Bond has seen (as far as missions and the like) in that time? And being that Bond is so good, it doesn't take long to get the ropes for him, eh? ;)
  • hoppimike wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.

    100% agree! :)

    nope you are wrong sorry it was the right thing to do sorry if you don;'t like it but it make sense.........watch it again

  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    nope you are wrong sorry it was the right thing to do sorry if you don;'t like it but it make sense.........watch it again

    I'm not quite sure if there is a definitive right or wrong here.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,661
    I think there is good evidence to suggest/assert the notion that Skyfall presents James Bond in a poor light, and, for lack of a better description, a bit foolish. Consider the end of Skyfall....

    SPOILER ALERT!

    Bond takes M to Skyfall to lure Silva out of hiding so Bond can eliminate him. I think this development in the plot can be viewed in two distinct ways.

    A) He wanted to use M as bait to lure out Silva so he chose a less conventional, less secure safe house. Skyfall looked undefended so Silva would think there were no hidden MI6 army waiting to get him. M died which proved Bond's decision was the wrong one.

    or

    B) He took M to a far-fetched location which seemed totally inappropriate with almost zero protection. His location was the wrong choice because M was killed. Had he taken her to a more secure safe house it's possible she would have lived.

    Take your pick!

    Ultimately, Bond's choice of safe house did seem a bit daft or badly thought out because there was little protection and M died. I don't know if the producers/writers were trying to make a point that Craig's Bond was basically a fool or incompetent in his job, but you could come to that conclusion.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote:
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.
    I have to agree with you on this point, @Getafix. It seemed an odd direction to take considering they actually had an incredibly fit and well-toned Bond in the form of Craig who was meant to be in his prime at the end of QoS. Surely they could have saved this scenario for Craig's last Bond picture?
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I suppose the producers think that a Bond "losing his edge" is more interesting - and has more potential for a plot - than a Bond who is always self assured (i.e. he has more to overcome throughout the narrative if he is fading as an agent). We see both versions of Bond in SF.

    Anyway, at the start of the film Bond IS in his prime (up until when he gets shot).
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I suppose the producers think that a Bond "losing his edge" is more interesting - and has more potential for a plot - than a Bond who is always self assured (i.e. he has more to overcome throughout the narrative if he is fading as an agent). We see both versions of Bond in SF.

    Anyway, at the start of the film Bond IS in his prime (up until when he gets shot).

    Obviously this is what has proved to be the case - that people did find it interesting and engaging.
    They have nicely set up the ground for a Bond JUST on mission, so maybe stop the moaning.
  • OligarchOligarch Banned
    edited February 2013 Posts: 110
    he's allowed to moan all he wants.

    anyway here's my fan review of skyfall -

    IT STUNK!

    The plot and story/writing completely fell apart once Silva was introduced to the film on the island.

    Casino Royale makes skyfall look like a grade-B action cartoon .
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I suppose the producers think that a Bond "losing his edge" is more interesting - and has more potential for a plot - than a Bond who is always self assured (i.e. he has more to overcome throughout the narrative if he is fading as an agent). We see both versions of Bond in SF.

    Anyway, at the start of the film Bond IS in his prime (up until when he gets shot).

    No, I would argue they thought it was easier to execute, not necessarily more interesting. It's much more of a struggle tackling a story about a man at the top of his game, but the rewards would be twofold. Having your protagonist down and out within 15 mins, allows you to chart safe passage across the ensuing 2 hours of redemption. The real test will be how they tackle Bond 24. I'm very much looking forward to them pushing the character, but not in a direction that feels borrowed, or obvious from the outset.
  • Posts: 1,407
    I know everybody is entitled to their opinion but my goodness...there is so much negitivity here. If you didn't like the film that's fine but wow I feel sorry for you for hating it THIS much. You guys are missing out
  • OligarchOligarch Banned
    Posts: 110
    missing out? on what? a villain flying around in a helicopter over bonds child hood home while blasting rock music?

    Bond running on thin ice in the middle of winter while try to rescue his boss?

    point is skyfall lacked creativity and was a sloppy attempt at trying to mimic past outings. The movie was so campy it became unbearable, I mean come on how many one liners and jokes was Daniel Craig fed in skyfall? it became so repetitive and out of place. I What happened to the Casino Royale / QoS Daniel Craig that was serious ? in skyfall we get a poor attempt of a constant quiping Bond constantly trying to remind us of the past. I'm sorry but skyfall is extremely overrated, and in time people will see it for what it really is, a subpar action flick.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    bondbat007 wrote:
    I know everybody is entitled to their opinion but my goodness...there is so much negitivity here. If you didn't like the film that's fine but wow I feel sorry for you for hating it THIS much. You guys are missing out

    Just let them rant. They are flogging a dead horse. Let them enjoy themselves with their new comrades. :D This film has nothing to prove anymore. The audiences have spoken and in a very clear way, I would think. Nothing left to say.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Oligarch wrote:
    missing out? on what? a villain flying around in a helicopter over bonds child hood home while blasting rock music?

    Bond running on thin ice in the middle of winter while try to rescue his boss?

    point is skyfall lacked creativity and was a sloppy attempt at trying to mimic past outings. The movie was so campy it became unbearable, I mean come on how many one liners and jokes was Daniel Craig fed in skyfall? it became so repetitive and out of place. I What happened to the Casino Royale / QoS Daniel Craig that was serious ? in skyfall we get a poor attempt of a constant quiping Bond constantly trying to remind us of the past. I'm sorry but skyfall is extremely overrated, and in time people will see it for what it really is, a subpar action flick.

    lol, amazing post! I laughed all the way through at how true that is!

    And as for Skyfall's popularity... popularity does not prove (or disprove) quality. Just look at pop music!

    Skyfall was quite clearly designed to appeal to casual movie-goers who are easily wowed by cheap tricks and jokes. I barely even consider it a real movie.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,039
    hoppimike wrote:
    Skyfall was quite clearly designed to appeal to casual movie-goers who are easily wowed by cheap tricks and jokes. I barely even consider it a real movie.

    Actually, this takes away your credibility. After all, since the post you agree with doesn't talk about acting, cinematography, music, ... but only about jokes and action, I'd say cheap tricks and jokes is the about the most sophisticated level to which the both of you judge a film.

    Sorry pal. I like SF but that doesn't give you the right to look down on me. Oh, and nor does it give you the right to look down on 98 % of our forum members.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    hoppimike wrote:
    Oligarch wrote:
    missing out? on what? a villain flying around in a helicopter over bonds child hood home while blasting rock music?

    Bond running on thin ice in the middle of winter while try to rescue his boss?

    point is skyfall lacked creativity and was a sloppy attempt at trying to mimic past outings. The movie was so campy it became unbearable, I mean come on how many one liners and jokes was Daniel Craig fed in skyfall? it became so repetitive and out of place. I What happened to the Casino Royale / QoS Daniel Craig that was serious ? in skyfall we get a poor attempt of a constant quiping Bond constantly trying to remind us of the past. I'm sorry but skyfall is extremely overrated, and in time people will see it for what it really is, a subpar action flick.

    lol, amazing post! I laughed all the way through at how true that is!

    And as for Skyfall's popularity... popularity does not prove (or disprove) quality. Just look at pop music!

    Skyfall was quite clearly designed to appeal to casual movie-goers who are easily wowed by cheap tricks and jokes. I barely even consider it a real movie.

    How many classic films (from the 1940s and 50s) have you seen?
    Oligarch wrote:
    missing out? on what? a villain flying around in a helicopter over bonds child hood home while blasting rock music?

    Bond running on thin ice in the middle of winter while try to rescue his boss?

    point is skyfall lacked creativity and was a sloppy attempt at trying to mimic past outings. The movie was so campy it became unbearable, I mean come on how many one liners and jokes was Daniel Craig fed in skyfall? it became so repetitive and out of place. I What happened to the Casino Royale / QoS Daniel Craig that was serious ? in skyfall we get a poor attempt of a constant quiping Bond constantly trying to remind us of the past. I'm sorry but skyfall is extremely overrated, and in time people will see it for what it really is, a subpar action flick.

    Give me some examples of how Skyfall was mimicing past outings in an uncreativeand sloppy manner, and how Bond wasn't serious in this film compared to CR and QoS? He looked pretty damn serious when he:

    *Finds his colleagues dead in Turkey

    *Was chasing Patrice for the drive

    *Laying around in a drunk and pill addled mess

    *Saw part of his MI6 in ruin

    *Shoats at Patrice for answers

    *He takes his exams and fails miserably (especially when his shoulder acted up)

    *Meets Silva

    *Sees Berenice coldly beaten and then executed

    *Knows Silva has escaped and when he is chasing him in the chaos

    *Knows that M may die if he can't get to her in time at the inquiry

    *He races to save M to the tune of Newman and the spoken word of Tennyson by her voice

    *Fights off Silva and his men to protect the members and M

    *Sets up traps and fortifies defenses in Skyfall

    *He takes down Silva's men

    *He holds M as she dies and then tearfully kisses her forehead

    Just a few I thought I would point out considering it is likely you barely tuned in to the film. :)
  • JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Or perhaps something right around the middle?

    This. I didn't think it was as bad as @Getafix and others, I thought it was good and in my top 10, but I don't think it was the awesome politically challenging best Bond ever masterpiece the majority of members here seem to have seen.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,792
    @Getafix I'd take TSWLM and OP over it too but I think FYEO is a bit overrated.

    I think OP probably has the most tension of any film in the series in the last half an hour. Shame everybody misses that and focuses on the clownsuit (which I think works really well).
    hoppimike wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    The narrative jump from QoS to SF does feel a bit abrupt though. From rookie to has-been in one film. And it did to me feel a bit like a reboot of the reboot - with the promise of another change in direction next time. The transparently desperate desire to remain relevant is tiring. I like my Bond a little more self assured.

    100% agree! :)

    nope you are wrong sorry it was the right thing to do sorry if you don;'t like it but it make sense.........watch it again

    How old are you? Seems pretty childish saying "its a masterpiece so if u don't like it you're not a bond fan" and "nope you're wrong you just don't understand the film"
  • Posts: 1,817
    hoppimike wrote:
    Oligarch wrote:
    missing out? on what? a villain flying around in a helicopter over bonds child hood home while blasting rock music?

    Bond running on thin ice in the middle of winter while try to rescue his boss?

    point is skyfall lacked creativity and was a sloppy attempt at trying to mimic past outings. The movie was so campy it became unbearable, I mean come on how many one liners and jokes was Daniel Craig fed in skyfall? it became so repetitive and out of place. I What happened to the Casino Royale / QoS Daniel Craig that was serious ? in skyfall we get a poor attempt of a constant quiping Bond constantly trying to remind us of the past. I'm sorry but skyfall is extremely overrated, and in time people will see it for what it really is, a subpar action flick.

    lol, amazing post! I laughed all the way through at how true that is!

    And as for Skyfall's popularity... popularity does not prove (or disprove) quality. Just look at pop music!

    Skyfall was quite clearly designed to appeal to casual movie-goers who are easily wowed by cheap tricks and jokes. I barely even consider it a real movie.

    Then why it's full of references to previous movies, risking that many "casual movie-goers" didn't understand them?
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    0013 wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    Skyfall was quite clearly designed to appeal to casual movie-goers who are easily wowed by cheap tricks and jokes. I barely even consider it a real movie.

    Then why it's full of references to previous movies, risking that many "casual movie-goers" didn't understand them?

    But they were the really obvious references that anyone who hasn't been living in a cave for the last 50 years will understand. It just felt like playing to the crowd.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Bond ALWAYS plays to the crowd. It follows current trends at the time and adjusts its style to what is popular with current audiences.

    Similarly the "gags" are hardly new. Remember the "I don't give a damn" line in Casino Royale?
  • Posts: 1,497
    Sam90 wrote:
    Good to see that the chase through London and the tube crash story boarded for OHMSS (one of my fav Bond movies) but never filmed finally got to the screen. (amazing how ideas come around!)

    Good point, I hadn't even thought about that. Though, I think the scene would have been more interesting scenically if the chase actually took place on the streets of London rather than in the tubes, as was the plan for OHMSS.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 13,729
    Skyfall is a masterpiece........don't like it?= Not a Bond fan this is for TRUE LOYAL FLEMING FANS NO PARODY NO GADGET CLASSIC

    That's a joke, right?

    I may be in the minority in cosidering SF average Bond at best, and Craig the worst Bond, but like anyone else whom has invested as much time and money in their Bond merchandise collection as I have, I am still a fan. True Fleming? I have various editions of all the Fleming books, so yes. The point i'm tryimng to make, is that SF is not the be all and end all of what makes a true Bond fan, no Bond film is.
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