The James Bond Questions Thread

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,370
    If Tarantino had ended up directing, Bond would've went for the toes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I think in the commentary, they say he sucked all of them, but they thought it was too creepy afterwards.

    Wow, Craig really sucks.
  • Posts: 4,400
    I think in the commentary, they say he sucked all of them, but they thought it was too creepy afterwards.

    Impossible.

    I think they were likely just speaking about the point broadly. If you watch the clip and the positioning of the fingers and Craig's mouth, you can see that there was no editing involved. It's a single take.

    So they couldn't make direct cuts. It be a very expensive bit of CGI to give Eva Green a new hand and Craig a new mouth. However, they could reposition and delete some fingers. Which is likely what has happened.
  • Posts: 6,682
    Eva Green has five fingers. Craig's mouth was balanced for the pressure of two. That is why the scene ran one minute too long.
  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    Posts: 380
    retrokitty wrote: »
    @PropertyOfALady , I had no idea about that. They did a fine job. Whoa.

    "34. When Bond finds Vesper huddled in the shower, he sits next to her to comfort her. This was shot with a single take to capture the emotion of the scene. Bond kisses and gently sucks on her fingers, which was meant to be comforting and soothing. However, in the actual take, he sucks on all four of her fingers, which Campbell felt gave it a creepy “fetish quality.” The visual effects department was able to remove two of the finger sucks to make it less creepy."

    https://filmschoolrejects.com/48-things-we-learned-from-the-casino-royale-commentary-122077518f94/

    Just a reminder ...

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    Is it just me or is the removing of Green's fingers and bodyworlds in one conversation a bit creepy?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Eva Green has five fingers. Craig's mouth was balanced for the pressure of two. That is why the scene ran one minute too long.
    No no no. No more forefinger.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Eva Green has five fingers. Craig's mouth was balanced for the pressure of two. That is why the scene ran one minute too long.
    No no no. No more forefinger.

    You know what I can do with my CGI finger.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Eva Green has five fingers. Craig's mouth was balanced for the pressure of two. That is why the scene ran one minute too long.
    No no no. No more forefinger.

    You know what I can do with my CGI finger.

    Just his luck, his little finger removeb with CGI.....
  • edited June 2019 Posts: 1,964
    What are the top 5 most violent Bond films in your opinion?

    1. Licence to Kill
    2. QoS
    3. Casino Royale
    4. A View To A Kill
    5. The Living Daylights
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited June 2019 Posts: 5,185
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    What are the top 5 most violent Bond films in your opinion?

    1. Licence to Kill
    2. QoS
    3. Casino Royale
    4. A View To A Kill
    5. Skyfall
    1.Thunderball
    2. GE
    3. TSWLM
    4. LTK
    5. Skyfall
  • Posts: 1,009
    I still can't make my mind up after all these years:
    Is Bond really on a rampage to avenge Tracy on DAF's pre-credits scene or it simply depends of how every viewer feels about that?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I still can't make my mind up after all these years:
    Is Bond really on a rampage to avenge Tracy on DAF's pre-credits scene or it simply depends of how every viewer feels about that?

    I think they willfully avoided directly acknowledging it, so that it can work either way-wether you saw OHMSS or not.
  • Posts: 1,009
    I still can't make my mind up after all these years:
    Is Bond really on a rampage to avenge Tracy on DAF's pre-credits scene or it simply depends of how every viewer feels about that?

    I think they willfully avoided directly acknowledging it, so that it can work either way-wether you saw OHMSS or not.

    I guess this was the best and wisest option. Thanks, TF!
  • Posts: 17,241
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    What are the top 5 most violent Bond films in your opinion?

    1. Licence to Kill
    2. QoS
    3. Casino Royale
    4. A View To A Kill
    5. The Living Daylights

    License to Kill is definitely #1 still is I wonder if that will change in the future.
  • Posts: 4,400
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I think in the commentary, they say he sucked all of them, but they thought it was too creepy afterwards.

    Impossible.

    I think they were likely just speaking about the point broadly. If you watch the clip and the positioning of the fingers and Craig's mouth, you can see that there was no editing involved. It's a single take.

    So they couldn't make direct cuts. It be a very expensive bit of CGI to give Eva Green a new hand and Craig a new mouth. However, they could reposition and delete some fingers. Which is likely what has happened.

    Impossible what? I'm confused.
  • edited June 2019 Posts: 1,964
    Birdleson wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    What are the top 5 most violent Bond films in your opinion?

    1. Licence to Kill
    2. QoS
    3. Casino Royale
    4. A View To A Kill
    5. The Living Daylights

    License to Kill is definitely #1 still is I wonder if that will change in the future.

    LTK, QOS, CR and SF, are probably the Top Four. It would take a little more thinking to come up with the fifth. Maybe OHMSS?

    I say AVTAK because Zorin massacring the mine workers and shooting the geologist at close range really made the film dark IMO
  • Posts: 17,241
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+

    I understand Bond joining her in the shower and all that (indeed a clever way of showing the two characters connecting), but the finger sucking thing just struck me as odd. I've never once connected with that as anything comforting or natural.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited June 2019 Posts: 12,914
    You can relate it to thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort, or Vesper reverting to a childlike state even.
    http://www.thumblady.com/images/Hygiene_Town_Article.pdf
    Shari, why do children suck their thumbs?

    Green: The No. 1 reason for sucking is nourishment. Children are born with a suckling reflex–-just stroke a baby’s chin and you see the instinctive response immediately. Babies associate sucking with mommy, warmth, love, togetherness, nourishment and a myriad of other wonderful feelings. Sucking actually produces endorphins, a natural-occurring chemical in our brain, which produces pleasure. With all these early positive associations and pleasurable experiences relating to the sucking process, they soon transfer this sucking action to other items, namely a convenient finger, toe or thumb, and receive those same positive and pleasurable conditioned sensations.

    Don't know if this is already mentioned recently or long ago, but still another reason the scene is so good is it recalls classic storytelling. Specifically William Shakespeare and Macbeth.

    In response to Eva's muttering "it's like there's blood on my hands... it's not coming off," Bond figuratively almost literally takes that blood off her hands. Absolves her of involvement, taking it all on himself. Quite a movie moment.
    scene-drawing-easy-8.png

  • edited June 2019 Posts: 4,400
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+

    I understand Bond joining her in the shower and all that (indeed a clever way of showing the two characters connecting), but the finger sucking thing just struck me as odd. I've never once connected with that as anything comforting or natural.
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+

    I understand Bond joining her in the shower and all that (indeed a clever way of showing the two characters connecting), but the finger sucking thing just struck me as odd. I've never once connected with that as anything comforting or natural.

    It’s odd in retrospective, I agree. However, in the moment it feels organic. It’s certainly one of the more interesting aspects as there is the overtones of Vesper’s ultimate betrayal and the Lady Macbeth connotations.
    I think in the commentary, they say he sucked all of them, but they thought it was too creepy afterwards.

    Impossible.

    I think they were likely just speaking about the point broadly. If you watch the clip and the positioning of the fingers and Craig's mouth, you can see that there was no editing involved. It's a single take.

    So they couldn't make direct cuts. It be a very expensive bit of CGI to give Eva Green a new hand and Craig a new mouth. However, they could reposition and delete some fingers. Which is likely what has happened.

    Impossible what? I'm confused.

    It’s ‘impossible’ from a technical perspective. The scene is shot in a single take. Therefore, you can’t get around adding CGI through editing. So the only options you have is to replace Green’s hands and Craig’s mouth via CGI. Clearly, they did not do that as the scene would look massively wonky. CGI today has not advanced to that degree and it would tip the moment into the uncanny valley (just watch Henry Cavill’s mouth in Justice League).

    However, what they likely did was delete some fingers and move Craig’s hand a little to disguise the deletion. I think Craig sucked one finger first and then three/fingers at once, but the CGI made it look like he sucked two fingers individually. There’s a moment in the sequence where the fingers do creep oddly out of shot and Craig’s hand covers most of his mouth. That is the CGI moment, it is literally a second.

    Along with Daniel Craig’s CGI hands in SF, it’s definitely some of the oddest uses of CGI. However, I’m sure there are 1000s of other instances of discreet CGI that we have yet to be made aware of in these films.

    In fact, I’ve never quite understood the CGI hands story from SF. They look real to me.


  • Posts: 17,241
    Bond "taking the blood of her hands" might be the way to look at that moment of the shower scene. As far as thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort goes, wouldn't that relate more to the childlike behaviour of sucking ones own thumb, rather than having the thumb (or the other fingers) sucked by someone else?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond "taking the blood of her hands" might be the way to look at that moment of the shower scene. As far as thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort goes, wouldn't that relate more to the childlike behaviour of sucking ones own thumb, rather than having the thumb (or the other fingers) sucked by someone else?

    Bond sucking his thumb would have failed to do the one thing that scene does- finally establish him as a caring person.
  • edited June 2019 Posts: 17,241
    Bond "taking the blood of her hands" might be the way to look at that moment of the shower scene. As far as thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort goes, wouldn't that relate more to the childlike behaviour of sucking ones own thumb, rather than having the thumb (or the other fingers) sucked by someone else?

    Bond sucking his thumb would have failed to do the one thing that scene does- finally establish him as a caring person.

    Not at all suggesting Bond should have sucked his own thumb, haha!
    As for Bond as a caring person, I found that to already be established by him joining her in the shower.
  • Posts: 6,682
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+

    I understand Bond joining her in the shower and all that (indeed a clever way of showing the two characters connecting), but the finger sucking thing just struck me as odd. I've never once connected with that as anything comforting or natural.

    I think the point is that the water of the shower can't wash away Vesper's metaphorical blood on her hands. It's just something cold and impersonal. But Bond can. He's flesh and blood, and he knows what she went through. Unusual and odd an image as it might be on the film, by sucking her fingers (or rather, cleansing them), he can help her overcome her trauma.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    Better still, @mattjoes.


    You can relate it to thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort, or Vesper reverting to a childlike state even.
    http://www.thumblady.com/images/Hygiene_Town_Article.pdf
    Shari, why do children suck their thumbs?

    Green: The No. 1 reason for sucking is nourishment. Children are born with a suckling reflex–-just stroke a baby’s chin and you see the instinctive response immediately. Babies associate sucking with mommy, warmth, love, togetherness, nourishment and a myriad of other wonderful feelings. Sucking actually produces endorphins, a natural-occurring chemical in our brain, which produces pleasure. With all these early positive associations and pleasurable experiences relating to the sucking process, they soon transfer this sucking action to other items, namely a convenient finger, toe or thumb, and receive those same positive and pleasurable conditioned sensations.

    Don't know if this is already mentioned recently or long ago, but still another reason the scene is so good is it recalls classic storytelling. Specifically William Shakespeare and Macbeth.

    In response to Eva's muttering "it's like there's blood on my hands... it's not coming off," Bond figuratively almost literally takes that blood off her hands. Absolves her of involvement, taking it all on himself. Quite a movie moment.
    Bond "taking the blood of her hands" might be the way to look at that moment of the shower scene. As far as thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort goes, wouldn't that relate more to the childlike behaviour of sucking ones own thumb, rather than having the thumb (or the other fingers) sucked by someone else?
    I don't think the human brain in (or out of) distress would do that kind of evaluation and dismissal. More likely it would react with relief at the human contact, maybe to the point of creating endorphins based on previous experience. Reaction of the subconscious. The mechanics of it and being an act of another person versus self wouldn't play into it.
  • Posts: 19,339
    He is basically removing the 'blood she feels she has on her hands,pretty basic really.
  • Posts: 17,241
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Re. the whole Bond sucking Vesper's fingers scene; how is that a comforting and soothing thing? I never understood it.

    I found the moment to be reassuring and comforting.

    If you found a broken woman fully-dressed sitting in a cold shower, conventional logic would dictate that you would pull her out and warm her up. Perhaps throw a towel over her and dry her off. Maybe say a few words to inspire her not to be downcast by what she just witnessed. Whether you believed your own words or not.

    However, Bond decided to join her in the shower. He understands how she's feeling, because he's feeling that way too. You don't need dialogue, instead you have a simple elegant moment that is complex and interesting. The finger thing is his way of helping and there is a certain masculine vulnerability to the moment.

    It's one of the best and most complex scenes in the Bond series. Aside from the themes and character work; there is Campbell's terrific decision to shoot in one take, Craig and Green's performance and David Arnold's beautiful score.

    A+

    I understand Bond joining her in the shower and all that (indeed a clever way of showing the two characters connecting), but the finger sucking thing just struck me as odd. I've never once connected with that as anything comforting or natural.

    I think the point is that the water of the shower can't wash away Vesper's metaphorical blood on her hands. It's just something cold and impersonal. But Bond can. He's flesh and blood, and he knows what she went through. Unusual and odd an image as it might be on the film, by sucking her fingers (or rather, cleansing them), he can help her overcome her trauma.
    Better still, @mattjoes.


    You can relate it to thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort, or Vesper reverting to a childlike state even.
    http://www.thumblady.com/images/Hygiene_Town_Article.pdf
    Shari, why do children suck their thumbs?

    Green: The No. 1 reason for sucking is nourishment. Children are born with a suckling reflex–-just stroke a baby’s chin and you see the instinctive response immediately. Babies associate sucking with mommy, warmth, love, togetherness, nourishment and a myriad of other wonderful feelings. Sucking actually produces endorphins, a natural-occurring chemical in our brain, which produces pleasure. With all these early positive associations and pleasurable experiences relating to the sucking process, they soon transfer this sucking action to other items, namely a convenient finger, toe or thumb, and receive those same positive and pleasurable conditioned sensations.

    Don't know if this is already mentioned recently or long ago, but still another reason the scene is so good is it recalls classic storytelling. Specifically William Shakespeare and Macbeth.

    In response to Eva's muttering "it's like there's blood on my hands... it's not coming off," Bond figuratively almost literally takes that blood off her hands. Absolves her of involvement, taking it all on himself. Quite a movie moment.
    Bond "taking the blood of her hands" might be the way to look at that moment of the shower scene. As far as thumb-sucking as a natural human comfort goes, wouldn't that relate more to the childlike behaviour of sucking ones own thumb, rather than having the thumb (or the other fingers) sucked by someone else?
    I don't think the human brain in (or out of) distress would do that kind of evaluation and dismissal. More likely it would react with relief at the human contact, maybe to the point of creating endorphins based on previous experience. Reaction of the subconscious. The mechanics of it and being an act of another person versus self wouldn't play into it.

    Good points. Still, after all these years, I don't think I can ever see it as anything but a moment that strikes me as odd (even if it's a brief one). I guess we all have some of those.
  • Posts: 19,339
    At least he wasn't a 'toe sucker' like Prince Andrew's ex-wife,Fergie !
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