Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 11,189
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.

    I dunno. That AVTAK fight between Moore and the goons in the warehouse was pretty brutal ;)
  • Posts: 1,052
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.

    I dunno. That AVTAK fight between Moore and the goons in the warehouse was pretty brutal ;)

    Any scene featuring that tracksuit is definitley brutal!

  • Posts: 2,400
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The Bond/Grant fight will always be the Gold standard of Bond fights. Pure class.

    I dunno. That AVTAK fight between Moore and the goons in the warehouse was pretty brutal ;)

    Any scene featuring that tracksuit is definitley brutal!

    Any scene featuring Moore's facelift is brutal!
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 2,483
    RC7 wrote:
    I prefer the arresting aesthetics of SF's fights to the brutality of CR and QOS'.

    I agree with this. I never understood the obsession with the 'brutality' of the two previous films. I happen to think the Obanna fight is brilliant, but primarily because it feels natural and is well directed. Bond can't afford for Obanna to survive and as such despatches him in a very brutal manner. It works. With Slate, it's brutality for the sake of brutality. It's the most Bourne-like moment of the Craig films. As @Perilagu_Khan says, SF possesses an arresting aesthetic, something I feel marks Bond apart from his contemporaries. Mendes tried to inject a bit if class.

    Regards Brosnan, I love his fight work in GE and beyond (on occasion). He managed to fuse a sense of ferocity with one of nonchalance - see yacht fight in Monaco. I'm not saying this is truly Fleming, but it's something I like from my cinematic Bond. Craig moved towards this with his Casino fight in SF.

    Absolutely. With Bond, aesthetics is virtually everything. Always has been. And in an age where ugly is in, Bond stands out in ever starker relief.

    PS--I also agree on the Obanno fight. A truly terrific punch-up and one of the series best. The Slate fight, on the other hand, leaves me cold for much the same reason as QOS' PTS.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "How could we forget his SHOOOULDER"? ;)

    This needs an award of some kind. :))
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    barryt007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

    I thought Bond handled himself fine in the SF fights. The problem for me was the lack of visceral imagination and intensity to them. I don't want nor do I expect Bond to be some untouchable fighting machine that doesn't get his butt whooped; the fights are better when Bond incurs a bit of a best down too but in the end it's about the brutality and creativity of the violence that needs to be of a standard established credibly and realistically as portrayed in both CR and QoS. Heck, the fight system in the Blood Stone video game was better than the fights in SF.
  • Following on from some recent responses, I always found Brosnan to be the least plausible pugilist of all the Bond actors. In that at least, don't necessarily have to worry about any backlash from Brosnan enthusiasts, as this is, at least, a thread for controversial opinions

    From my perspective though, it's not controversial, as I recognize Brosnan as largely deficient in hand to hand combat, although realize the actor has many supporters as Bond. Garbage also (from my persepctive) that Craig is a weaker Bond in fist fights and battles than Brosnan, in fact it's not so much garbage, as freakin' ludicrous, when you look back at such instances as the Edmund Slate and Steven Obanno battles from QOS and Casino Royale respectively

    Brosnan had a decent sequence with Trevelyan in Goldeneye, but how many other instances of pugilistic merit can you really recall ? Not many if you really think about it. The sequence with the Carver thugs in TND may also warrant a mention, but even then, that was simply humorous than anything else, over Brosnan's actual fighting abilities

    PS Is there no end in sight for this particular thread..
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Having rewatched the Brosnan Bond films over the last few days, I think GE is his best performance overall or at least it's his least cheesiest.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    doubleoego wrote:
    Having rewatched the Brosnan Bond films over the last few days, I think GE is his best performance overall or at least it's his least cheesiest.

    He's more restrained in GE (perhaps first time nerves) but I see what you mean about him being not as cheesy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.

    And he sported a nice 5 o clock shadow for most of the majority of the movie.
  • TubesTubes The Hebrew Hammer
    Posts: 158
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.

    Now THAT'S a controversial opinion if I ever heard one. I thought nobody liked Bond's mop haircut in GE.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Murdock wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.

    And he sported a nice 5 o clock shadow for most of the majority of the movie.
    It was all those early/late shoots...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.

    And he sported a nice 5 o clock shadow for most of the majority of the movie.
    It was all those early/late shoots...

    Still he rocked it good. His Bond needed more 5 o clock shadow. ;)

  • Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Brosnan best in GE because that's the Bond movie with his best haircut.

    I wouldn't go this far but I've never had a problem with his hair in GE. It's not as bad as his hair during the 80s.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    No Bond actors had better hair than the Laz & the Broz.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    No Bond actors had better hair than the Laz & the Broz.

    Except for Connery in DAF, of course.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote:
    No Bond actors had better hair than the Laz & the Broz.

    Except for Connery in DAF, of course.
    Yes, it was nice, but also expensive. Lazenby & Brosnan kept the budget down in that regard.
    :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,456
    doubleoego wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, agreed. I really hope Mendes can step it up and give us better fights in B24, because when it comes to SF, I really wasn't impressed. Bond just didn't look like he could handle himself most of the time, yet he kicked everyone's ass in CR and QoS.

    To be fair that is correct because dont forget Bond COULDNT handle himself,he was out of shape with a bad shoulder injury because of the splinted bullet,so the fact he struggled in both fights with Patrice is actually as it should be.

    I thought Bond handled himself fine in the SF fights. The problem for me was the lack of visceral imagination and intensity to them. I don't want nor do I expect Bond to be some untouchable fighting machine that doesn't get his butt whooped; the fights are better when Bond incurs a bit of a best down too but in the end it's about the brutality and creativity of the violence that needs to be of a standard established credibly and realistically as portrayed in both CR and QoS. Heck, the fight system in the Blood Stone video game was better than the fights in SF.

    Absolutely spot-on wording there.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Haha, thanks @Creasy47. In another thread I mentioned my hope for Mendes to improve upon SF with Bond 24, in the same way or more so similarly to how Campbell improved upon his debut effort in GE with CR; action (especially the fisticuffs was a big and significant improvement). I hope Mendes can address this where SF lacked and really give us something.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Just out of interest @Doubleoego how did you rank the Brosnan films this time? I must admit I still think the first half of DAD is quite decent (not great but watchable), however its the whole of the Iceland section that's utter crap. Its like a bloody panto.

    I've also decided Halle Berry gives the worst, most annoying performance performance in the series.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I've also decided Halle Berry gives the worst, most annoying performance performance in the series.
    Agreed. And that's saying something!
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Caroline Bliss, Teri Hatcher, John Terry and Britt Eckland are also good contenders but Halle is the most annoying and also the most prominent of the lot.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I like Caroline & Britt. There- controversial! :))
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like Samantha Bond. That's certainly controversial around here.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Just out of interest @Doubleoego how did you rank the Brosnan films this time? I must admit I still think the first half of DAD is quite decent (not great but watchable), however its the whole of the Iceland section that's utter crap. Its like a bloody panto.

    I've also decided Halle Berry gives the worst, most annoying performance performance in the series.

    I'd rank the Brosnan era as follows:

    GE
    TND/TWINE (I can't decide which if these two to put in 2nd place but I think Brosnan's cool factor was superior overall in TND).
    DAD

    For me, TWINE annoys me because it's really full if potential and most things don't feel as fleshed out and expanded on as they could have been. The only thing they managed to expand was the PTS. However, Brosnan's movies are never boring irrespective of the quality.
    As for Halle, I think she's one of the hottest Bond girls ever but her character is horrendous, it's like her character knew she was in a Bond film and did everything she could to be an annoying OTT cliche. The writing and direction was a complete disaster but then again such shallow stunt casting in Bond films usually are.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    doubleoego wrote:
    As for Halle, I think she's one of the hottest Bond girls ever but her character is horrendous, it's like her character knew she was in a Bond film and did everything she could to be an annoying OTT cliche. The writing and direction was a complete disaster but then again such shallow stunt casting in Bond films usually are.

    Yep, I agree with all that. Horrid character. I like the annoyed look Brosnan gives after her "thrust" quip. Can't blame him really.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I like Samantha Bond. That's certainly controversial around here.

    Samantha Bond, like Brosnan's era as a whole, was at her best in Goldeneye, tolerable in Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough, and abysmal in Die Another Day. She gets shafted by the writing just as badly, if not worse than, Pierce, though. Her lines in GE were all very good, while some of her one-liners in TND (the pumping one in particular) and actions in TWINE (like getting all fussed at the doctor) were bad. The VR scene in DAD...the less said, the better.
  • About Moneypenny, I think they have only ever gotten it right with Maxwell in the Connery/Lazenby years and with Bond in GE-TWINE. They just ran out of things to do with Maxwell in the Moore era and once they got to Bliss I think the writers didn't understand the character. With early Maxwell and Bond I really got the sense that they understood what the character was and had a fresh heap of ideas for her. With Harris in Skyfall I think they had a good grasp on Moneypenny's character, but I feel they were trying too hard and overdid it.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think Bond (unlike Bliss) could make an otherwise bad line work though. Under lesser hands the "cunning linguist" would have been horrible but, in all homesty, I find it funny.

    I know I'm going to be shot down for this but I think the interaction/chemistry between her and Brosnan salvages the VR scene a bit.

    I do agree though that Moneypenny was at her peak long ago during the days of good old Louis. By Caroline she was a pure charicature.
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