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"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    I hope you enjoyed it @chrisisall
    I had been on a hiatus from Bond movies for the past few months, seeing SP last night was grand fun! Now I want to dive back into them all again asap!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,280
    Although Mr. White never got to be revealed as Blofeld, at least he gave his daughter to Bond despite being a tool that contributed to Vesper's death and also to putting M's life at risk before.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    Although Mr. White never got to be revealed as Blofeld, at least he gave his daughter to Bond despite being a tool that contributed to Vesper's death and also to putting M's life at risk before.

    I've always loved how White, the man who ruined Bond's chance to get an honest life in CR, inadvertently handed him the woman who made it possible for him to do just that all those years later.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    Although Mr. White never got to be revealed as Blofeld, at least he gave his daughter to Bond despite being a tool that contributed to Vesper's death and also to putting M's life at risk before.

    I've always loved how White, the man who ruined Bond's chance to get an honest life in CR, inadvertently handed him the woman who made it possible for him to do just that all those years later.

    Yes!
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Only just twigged that Stephanie Sigman in the PTS is in Narcos. She's very good. A shame she only gets a few seconds on screen in SP.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    I was hoping for more of her as well.

    Her promotional still was very enticing.
    1427861496900.jpg
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Her character in Narcos is brilliantly played. She steals every scene.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    She was pretty good in The Bridge as well.

    I have to say she made quite an impression for someone who was in the film so fleetingly, and with only one line of dialogue. Good choice.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I still find Spectre to be a riveting film in all aspects. Sure, there's some things which bugs me (mostly in the action-department). But overall it has a firm position in my top ten.
    I'm always excited when I'm about to watch it and when I watch it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,469
    Getafix wrote: »
    Her character in Narcos is brilliantly played. She steals every scene.

    Agreed, figured I was one of the only ones that saw that show. She's incredible in it (and gorgeous, to boot). Shame she had a much smaller presence in the second season.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Nasty end too!
  • LegionnaireLegionnaire
    Posts: 142
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 The development of Mr. White’s character was a high point all the way through the last four Bond films. First as a facilitator for Le Chiffre then later his executioner, then he is revealed to be the force behind the defection of Vesper, as well as the point of contact between Spectre and Quantum. Finally he is the vector Bond uses to get to the heart of Spectre, and he sacrifices his daughter by giving her to Bond. He is the only link that MI6 has to the organization since Bond kills Marco Sciarra. In QOS he exposes himself by acknowledging that he regrets Vesper killing herself since he might have been able through her to get to Bond, and perhaps bring about his defection as well, though it has to be presumed that her usefulness was used up after defecting with the money, and she would have had to have been eliminated. Her last act was to give Mr. White to Bond as redemption for her betrayal, whether of Bonds feelings for her or her devotion to MI6 is unclear.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    SP has grown on me a lot in the past year, but I still can't accept the final 30 minutes. Up to that point, it is a brilliant Bond film, with few flaws (the airbag bit is the only misstep).

    The problem with SP is similar to that which plagued QoS: high expectations. The teaser and the official trailer seemed to get our hopes up that this would be a grand Bond, worthy of a place on the "best of" mantle. It didn't reach that bar and thus, initially felt like a failure.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Every time, the comments are the same. We start uttering the positives of the film, and then the "but" or "yet" word is being written down to start all the negatives. Let's turn that around for once, shall we ;-).

    For me, every Bond film is being plagued by the finale. Some finales are OK at best. So is the long underwater finale from TB not dragging more than the SP finale? Or what about the ridiculous laserfight finale from MR.

    I can accept the last 30 mins of SP, because it's merely a Bond film :-): Ridiculous, crazy, larger-than-life, unrealistic, over-the-top.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    The TB underwater fight becomes dull on rewatching but is beautifully shot and wonderfully scored. I loved it as a kid. Equally the Ken Adam sets and Barry score lend MR an visual and sonic beauty that few other Bond films match.

    SP probably should have ended at the crater base with an epic fight. Instead it limped on for a pointless and rather dreary further finale in London.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,119
    appreciation topic! So let's start summing up some things we DID like about the last 30 mins finale of SP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    appreciation topic! So let's start summing up some things we DID like about the last 30 mins finale of SP.
    The ending credits.

    Also the bit just prior when Bond drives off in the Aston with Madeline. Mendes finally pulled the urinated filter, suggesting new beginnings. Plus, if I recall correctly, it looked like a fresh post shower day in London, also indicating the start of something new after the storm. I hope EON follow through on that premise.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I'm the only person I know who is fine with the last 30 mins. It's completely odd, but I see some appeal in that. It has a nightmarish quality to it (yes, yes, oh, the irony). I like the fact it isn't 'insert big finale in crater base'. There are loads of moments in Bond that are, from a critical standpoint, pretty awful, but they usually have something that draws me in. With SP it's a sense of the macabre. It's nothing compared to CR, but I'm fine with it. The narrative damage is done in Morocco.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I quite like the ending in London, it's stripped back and has a thriller quality which we haven't seen in quite a while. There are some editorial flaws in it which makes the finale quite jumpy in terms of how it's constructed. But I find it good in the context. Certainly better then many other climaxes. As GustavGraves said, many Bond films are undone by their endings.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Getafix wrote: »
    Her character in Narcos is brilliantly played. She steals every scene.

    This is the issue I've had with EoN post CR; in that they utterly waste the Bond girls. It's maddening. In any case the scenes between White and Bond is the only good thing about this movie for me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    They should have given Sigman more to do. For my money she was more interesting with one line of dialogue than both Bellucci and Seydoux.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'm the only person I know who is fine with the last 30 mins. It's completely odd, but I see some appeal in that. It has a nightmarish quality to it (yes, yes, oh, the irony). I like the fact it isn't 'insert big finale in crater base'. There are loads of moments in Bond that are, from a critical standpoint, pretty awful, but they usually have something that draws me in. With SP it's a sense of the macabre. It's nothing compared to CR, but I'm fine with it. The narrative damage is done in Morocco.

    I love it too, @RC7. I get chills when Bond "comes home," and I enjoy the situation of he and his team working together when they actually need to, and not just to have all the main players there. Add in the danger of SPECTRE swarming them, the maze of Bond's past horrors and Bond's race to save Madeliene, and you have a thrilling and tense time. I also really was surprised (in a good way) by the ending, where Bond actually puts aside his vengeance for the good of his service, a repeat of his QoS moment with Yusef, and leaves with Madeleine to find something more. Like many things in SP, it's an interesting and refreshing moment you wouldn't expect to work in a Bond film, but it does.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 2017 Posts: 8,087
    The last half an hour is undoubtedly where SP falls apart. I can't quite see what people are getting at with "macabre", "thrilling" and "tense". The scenes belong in a Glen directed Bond film, they are that bland and uninspired in execution. I find nothing at all pulse racing about watching Craig jog around empty corridors in the dark. That sequence really needed a obstacle blocking Craig's path, and with another moments thought put into the script it could have been an opportunity for Hinx to pop up again. That would have made a dull scene that much more exciting, but Bond just finds Madeline, gets her free, they escape... Not really much tension to be extracted from that.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    The last half hour is abysmal. But the rest of the film I quite enjoy.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited June 2017 Posts: 10,588
    I'm with @RC7 and @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 on this. I find all the MI6 and Westminster bridge stuff quite tense. There's a sense of grandiose to it all without it being a massive setpiece.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,087
    Getafix wrote: »
    The last half hour is abysmal. But the rest of the film I quite enjoy.

    I like the rest, except the out of nowhere relationship that blossoms between Bond and Madeline. There is no effort put into making the audience believe they're growing close, they just all of a sudden care deeply for one another. I wish Bond would just steer clear of these love subplots. They really aren't good at them.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's a pretty good film for me up to Madeline's introduction. From there onwards the action and everything else collapses (that's where the magic ring revelation occurs too).
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited June 2017 Posts: 4,554
    This is an appreciation thread, so I should temper my less-than-enthusiastic response to the final 30 minutes. But in a way, my disappointment with those 30 minutes is due to my "appreciation" of the first 1 hour 50 minutes or so.

    The film lost me with the torture scene. And then there is a rush to "tidy" things up. One can see how poor and lazy the writing was. Remember, writers/directors have options. And sometimes you look at what is on the page/screen and think, "THAT was the option you went with? Really?"

    I wasn't thrilled with the torture scene and escape, but things got even worse in London. All Butterworth (he had dibs on final draft, I believe) and Mendes had to do was...

    1. Not let Madeleine walk away. Or, rather, let Bond let her walk away, on a dark street, late at night, knowing there is "danger" out there. It is embarrassingly bad. Remember, this is a woman he supposedly loves. And the worst part is, it was 100% avoidable. Want to ramp up the suspense? Simple. Make a safe house not so safe because of the man who is "everywhere."

    2. Not have Bond "kidnapped" in such a useless manner. In fact, if #1 is done correctly, then there is no need for a kidnapping scene. In some way, Bond sees something (perhaps a couple kissing in a dark corner, reminding him of White's line about, "he's kissing your lover.") and it strikes him: Madeleine is in danger. He runs back to the safe house and finds her gone. This separates him from the rest of MI6 and makes his mission about her and everything else secondary.

    3. Resist placing photos in the MI6 shooting range. I mean, was this necessary? No. DC is a brilliant actor. Let him show us that the trek into MI6 is a trek into his past (and the franchise's past), with each step through a condemned building. In this case, less would have been more. DC knows how to tell us a story just by his facial expressions (see CR). Let him do what he is great at doing, especially here.

    4. Create a final struggle. The helicopter fight in the PTS really should have been reserved for the final scene, one more fight, with HINX. Then let the crash go as planned, with Blofeld on the bridge. I have no issues with the way the film ended, because the bridge worked well, symbolically, and Bond acts as M described to C: "A licence to kill is also a licence NOT to kill..." So I agree with @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 on this part.

    OK. Peace out.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,469
    @TripAces, #3 is even less necessary when you realize that if Bond hadn't escaped, he would've been led to Blofeld while blindfolded, so the displaying of the pictures was completely irrelevant, anyway.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @TripAces, #3 is even less necessary when you realize that if Bond hadn't escaped, he would've been led to Blofeld while blindfolded, so the displaying of the pictures was completely irrelevant, anyway.

    A very very good point.

    Lazy writing strikes again.

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