Music in SPECTRE

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    And that was way back in 1964, and never received one since. Utterly disgraceful!

    John Barry won 5 Oscars during his career. Does it really matter that he was never nominated for a Bond film?

    Not really, if it hadn't been for the fact that Newman got nominated for his dismal efforts. That is the only real sore point for me. That is a blatant slap in the face to Barry's work on Bond, because he never got a look in. Even Arnold deserved a nomination more than Newman did.
    Re: the first comment, as I said above, they may have nominated Newman because his work was very different and original for a Bond movie. It was certainly a listenable score in the context of the movie with some interesting melodies and motifs in areas. While not up to Barry's standards by any means of the imagination, it was original.

    I completely disagree on the 2nd part. The biggest disgrace would have been to not nominate Barry for his highly original, trademark work, and then nominate Arnold for his clearly derivative, inferior copycat work on the series.

    If the Academy is going to confer an honour on a Bond soundtrack, it should be for something original, and that means Arnold should never receive a Bond soundtrack nomination for any of his clearly imitative efforts. George Martin, Marvin Hamslich, Bill Conti are all more deserving of a nomination imho than Arnold because their work had creative originality, no matter what you may think of it.

    I also disagree with any suggestion that Arnold should even be considered as a worthy successor to Barry. He clearly was not.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The Barry sound IS the Bond sound and should always be respected.

    Absolutely, but not imitated in an obviously inferior way. I do not subscribe to knock offs in any department.
  • Posts: 11,425
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The Barry sound IS the Bond sound and should always be respected.

    It should be respected of course, but I am firmly in the camp of those who welcome something new. I want a gifted, brilliant, probably young new composer who is willing and able to mix things up and is not overawed by Barry. Crucially though they need to be extraordinarily talented and not just arrogant. I am open to a new sound.

    The problem with Newman is that while he ditches anything Barryesque, he brings nothing new to the table . His SF score is about as close generic Hollywood mood music as you can get.
  • Posts: 1,552
    This thread is becoming more about music in the previous Bond films than music in SPECTRE...
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Inevitable that music that may not yet even have been written is discussed with reference to the previous films .
  • Posts: 1,552
    With reference yes, but it's become about Oscar merit than anything else. I'm just pointing out that it may be in danger of going off track completely.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    It's just a brief diversion. Inevitable while there's still nothing concrete to discuss. The real discussion won't really start until the film is out, unless we get snippets with the trailers, but I don't think they use the actual score in most trailers, do they? Until then, it's mainly hypothetical.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 4,619
    Not really, if it hadn't been for the fact that Newman got nominated for his dismal efforts. That is the only real sore point for me. That is a blatant slap in the face to Barry's work on Bond, because he never got a look in.

    Different year, different race.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Not really, if it hadn't been for the fact that Newman got nominated for his dismal efforts. That is the only real sore point for me. That is a blatant slap in the face to Barry's work on Bond, because he never got a look in.

    Different year, different race.

    It does still seem absurd that Barry never got a single nomination for Bond. Whichever way you look at it, that's just a sign of the academy's prejudice. May be that's changed, although I do think the fact that Newman is Newman is probably also a factor. Having Mendes direct also just added to this aura of SF being a 'quality' film, as opposed to what the academy probably just regards as the nonsense that is the rest of the series.

    Out of interest, how long has the Academy had the original song award?
  • Posts: 1,552
    Getafix wrote: »
    Out of interest, how long has the Academy had the original song award?
    Since 1934
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    How has Bond done in that category prior to Adele?
  • Posts: 1,552
    John Barry won for Born Free. 1967's Casino Royale was nominated for The Look of Love, Live and Let Die was nominated in 1973, Nobody Does it Better was nominated in 1977, For Your Eyes Only in 1981 and Skyfall won in 2012.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    I'd have given an Oscar to Barry for the theme song of The Persuaders!, but that's just me . :-??
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Does seem bizarre that WHATTITW was not nominated. I assume Burt won that one as well.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,552
    Getafix wrote: »
    Does seem bizarre that WHATTITW was not nominated. I assume Burt won that one as well.
    Yep, for Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head - But it wasn't just the Academy Awards that didn't nominate WHATTINW, it doesn't appear to have been nominated for any awards, musical or cinematic.
  • Posts: 11,175
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Does seem bizarre that WHATTITW was not nominated. I assume Burt won that one as well.
    Yep, for Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head

    I think that song is even more well known than We Have All the Time in the World.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    My parents had that song on 'cartridge' and I heard it a lot growing up. That was a huge song in that day and era, so I can appreciate that it won.

    However, Armstrong should have at least been nominated. That is the shame.

    Agreed on Persuaders, @DaltonCraig007 - I bought the entire dvd set just to listen to the music. Still gives me goosebumps to this day with the intro. I also love the tune for the Return of the Saint with Ian Ogilvy and even the New Avengers (supremely good incidental scene music in those old tv shows as well imho - so much better than the overproduced stuff in a lot of movies today).

    My favourite theme tune at the moment is the jazz intro for Homeland as well as the US House of Cards.
  • Posts: 1,552
    The other nominations that year were,

    • "Come Saturday Morning" — The Sterile Cuckoo
    • "Jean" — The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie
    • "True Grit" — True Grit
    • "What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life?" — The Happy Ending
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    My parents had that song on 'cartridge' and I heard it a lot growing up. That was a huge song in that day and era, so I can appreciate that it won.

    However, Armstrong should have at least been nominated. That is the shame.

    Agreed on Persuaders, @DaltonCraig007 - I bought the entire dvd set just to listen to the music. Still gives me goosebumps to this day with the intro. I also love the tune for the Return of the Saint with Ian Ogilvy and even the New Avengers (supremely good incidental scene music in those old tv shows as well imho - so much better than the overproduced stuff in a lot of movies today).

    My favourite theme tune at the moment is the jazz intro for Homeland as well as the US House of Cards.

    Yes, Burt's song has stood the test of time. I am not surprised it won. I just think it's bizarre that WHATTITW was not even nominated.

    House of Cards theme is brilliant.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited March 2015 Posts: 16,184
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman didn't respect Barry's legacy.

    That's one of the main reasons why his Skyfall score is so great. Do people really want every single new Bond soundtrack to sound like something Barry composed?

    Yes! I want something Memorable that has a good use of Bond theme and that. It's a Bond movie for crying out loud!

    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    I think it's not Barry's style that some of us want aped over and over again, it's Barry's musical quality that should be the benchmark. One day perhaps a composer will make a unique Bond score that equals Barry, but that would mean it will be a hell of a lot better than SF's and Arnold's soundtracks, no offense to them.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2015 Posts: 15,534
    Serra's score is much more memorable than SF's. Not saying if it's better or not but I can recall far easier some tracks from GE than SF.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.

    What are your Thoughts on Eric Serra's score for GE? (Which I'm one of the few who liked.)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think it's not Barry's style that some of us want aped over and over again, it's Barry's musical quality that should be the benchmark. One day perhaps a composer will make a unique Bond score that equals Barry, but that would mean it will be a hell of a lot better than SF's and Arnold's soundtracks, no offense to them.

    Exactly right on all counts. It's a matter of compositional quality, melody, memorable motifs etc.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    I think it's not Barry's style that some of us want aped over and over again, it's Barry's musical quality that should be the benchmark. One day perhaps a composer will make a unique Bond score that equals Barry, but that would mean it will be a hell of a lot better than SF's and Arnold's soundtracks, no offense to them.

    My thoughts exactly. With a splash of more Bond theme please. ;)
  • Posts: 4,619
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.

    What are your Thoughts on Eric Serra's score for GE? (Which I'm one of the few who liked.)

    I love it, mostly because it's unique unlike Arnold's stuff. The "The Goldeneye Overture" is the best track of the Brosnan era in my opinion.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.

    What are your Thoughts on Eric Serra's score for GE? (Which I'm one of the few who liked.)

    I love it, mostly because it's unique unlike Arnold's stuff. The "The Goldeneye Overture" is the best track of the Brosnan era in my opinion.

    Here here. One of my favorites as well. :-bd
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.

    What are your Thoughts on Eric Serra's score for GE? (Which I'm one of the few who liked.)

    I love it, mostly because it's unique unlike Arnold's stuff. The "The Goldeneye Overture" is the best track of the Brosnan era in my opinion.

    I too liked that GE score because it was very unique. I've always liked the composers who take a new approach. I even like Michael Kamen's work in LTK now (although I did not like it in 1989, because it followed the absolutely out of this world TLD Barry swansong).

    None of these guys should be mentioned in the same breath as Barry, but I admire their unique take. That takes courage imho, given the tremendous Bond musical legacy.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,175


    Love the first bit, then it gets kind of wild from 2.45 onwards.

    I think probably my favourite Serra track though is this:

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    The Serra soundtrack stinks. I remember recoiling in disgust in the cinema when I heard it in 1995. Definitely the worst of the non-Barry scores by a wide margin. At least Newman's score is not actively, in your face bad, like the GE one. The appalling quality of the music is one of the reasons I've never had time for the film.

    I am not a huge Arnold fan, although I thought his more recent efforts were pretty decent, and I respect him for Surrender and YKMN as title songs.

    I enjoy all the other non-Barry scores. Kamen's is perfectly decent, if unexceptional. It does at least feel like a Bond score.

    Like the others above, I am always open to something new, but it will have to be bloody amazing to equal or ever surpass what Barry did. I don't think it has to be the Barry sound to be successful. Others have taken interesting and successful new directions. But I really don't want bland any more. Arnold has developed an effective but not very exciting imitation of the Barry style, and Newman gave us vanilla mood music. I expect more for a Bond movie.
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