Music in SPECTRE

edited February 2015 in SPECTRE Posts: 1,183
I thought starting this discussion to discuss what kind of music Thomas Newman will be composing in the movie.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what kind of music we will be hearing in the movie.

If anyone wants to specify any kind of special scene or location please put it in a spoiler bracket.

I thought we could start discussing on what kind of music will be playing during the action chase in Austria
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Comments

  • Posts: 1,183
    Anybody? Any thoughts?
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    I personally would like a more Barryesque score by Newman. More Bond theme and brass. Less repetitive electronic rhythms.
  • Posts: 1,552
    I wonder if they'll give any nods to previous films in the music cues, in a subtle non in your face way. Prehaps a little bit of the OHMSS theme woven in during the Austrian scenes, or FRWL in the Rome sequences.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It may have been telling that they used 'New Digs' for the last video blog. They may have selected it for a reason (they had a lot of options but they chose that).

    For Austria, it is likely that Newman will go to the OHMSS well and attempt a Barry orchestral homage. This is more likely than something electronic imo such as the FYEO ski music.

    At least I hope so.
  • Posts: 1,183
    bondjames wrote: »
    It may have been telling that they used 'New Digs' for the last video blog. They may have selected it for a reason (they had a lot of options but they chose that).

    For Austria, it is likely that Newman will go to the OHMSS well and attempt a Barry orchestral homage. This is more likely than something electronic imo such as the FYEO ski music.

    At least I hope so.


    I was thinking in that way too and Newman is way more fond of orchestra than electronic music. Let's hope we get a great score. A lot disagree but I think SF had a great score.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree @aaron819. I think it was a very good first effort. Refreshing imo.

    I'm pretty sure we'll get an epic score for SP. It's a real opportunity to shine when you have the privilege of being invited back to score Bond for a 2nd time. Only Barry & Arnold have been given that opportunity before. The Oscar nom should motivate him, as well as the fact that this whole team is trying to surpass what they achieved with SF.

    Unlike some, I'm not worried, and am very much looking forward to hearing the score.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    edited February 2015 Posts: 1,256
    bondjames wrote: »
    Unlike some, I'm not worried, and am very much looking forward to hearing the score.

    Consider me one of those who is worried. I don't necessarily dislike Skyfall's score (for the most part), but I feel it was completely wrong for a Bond film. I really hope that Newman does something different with SP.

    On a side note, I would love to hear a hint of Vesper's theme in SP. Perhaps if Bond visits her grave or maybe if he has a sentimental moment after doling out some retribution on Mr. White.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    bondjames wrote: »
    Unlike some, I'm not worried, and am very much looking forward to hearing the score.

    Consider me one of those who is worried. I don't necessarily dislike Skyfall's score (for the most part), but I feel it was completely wrong for a Bond film. I really hope that Newman does something different with SP.

    On a side note, I would love to hear a hint of Vesper's theme in SP. Perhaps if Bond visits her grave or maybe if he has a sentimental moment after doling out some retribution on Mr. White.

    I felt the same way. Like I said. Most of it was serviceable but was pretty underwhelming by Bond music standards. Bond Music should be a character in the film. A companion to the journey. There was no whimsical element to it. It just sounded like a generic soundtrack you hear in most movies today. Nothing special. That's how I felt about Skyfall's score.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 2,914
    Barry had a lot of uplifting elements in his music, cheery major chords that are not really out there in Newman's score. He is subtle, his music too foreboding, or "doomy", if that is a word (spell-checker is against it). Newman should enjoy the experience, his score should more often carry some celebratory emotions.

    That said, I am curious whether Mendes sneaks in some foreign tunes again (like the "Boom Boom" songs in SF).
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 170
    I think the New (?) OHMSS Version from David Arnold would be perfect for some snow-action scenes

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    Bernie99 wrote: »
    I think the New (?) OHMSS Version from David Arnold would be perfect for some snow-action scenes


    If Newman can come up with anything even close to the cues in OHMSS we'll be in dreamland.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited February 2015 Posts: 3,157
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I wonder if they'll give any nods to previous films in the music cues, in a subtle non in your face way. Prehaps a little bit of the OHMSS theme woven in during the Austrian scenes, or FRWL in the Rome sequences.
    Oh, boy, I'd love to hear the OHMSS during the Austrian scenes. Perhaps a slower arragement like the tracks "Over and Out" and (the end of) "Gumbold's Safe" if there won't be a ski chase, but a full orchestral version like "Escape from Piz Gloria" and Arnold's arrangement would be the top.
    However, do they have the rights to the OHMSS? As far as I know, Arnold wanted to use the 007 theme but never could because of rights issues, thus I guess they'd have to ask to John Barry's family, perhaps?
    bondjames wrote: »
    Unlike some, I'm not worried, and am very much looking forward to hearing the score.

    Consider me one of those who is worried. I don't necessarily dislike Skyfall's score (for the most part), but I feel it was completely wrong for a Bond film. I really hope that Newman does something different with SP.

    On a side note, I would love to hear a hint of Vesper's theme in SP. Perhaps if Bond visits her grave or maybe if he has a sentimental moment after doling out some retribution on Mr. White.
    I feel the same way as well. Also, if Vesper gets mentioned I doubt that Newman will include a hint of Vesper's theme (one more reason they should have brought Arnold back), infact, I doubt Newman even knows the existence of Vesper's motif in CR. But I'd love to hear the Vesper theme if she gets mentioned or if Bond visits her grave. It is called leit motif, and John Williams uses it brilliantly in his scores.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    Bernie99 wrote: »
    I think the New (?) OHMSS Version from David Arnold would be perfect for some snow-action scenes

    I just uploaded that not too long ago. :))

    But yes, that version of OHMSS done by David Arnold was used in his collab with the Propellerheads. So that cover was made around 96 or 97.

  • Really looking forward to hear what Newman will come up with for SPECTRE. His SF is great but definately could have been more Bondesque! The "She's Mine" track is my favourite from the score. Can't wait to hear what he has lined up for the Austrian scènes and the Rome car chase.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,970
    I just think the score is going to one of the most underwhelming things about the film.
    SF just about got away with it's score, it had some great moments but a lot of it was pretty nondescript.

    SF had it's seriously Bondian moments that cried for something more Bond like unlike Newman like, I love SF but a more classic sounding score would have made it better.

    The problem with someone like Newman is he's going to stamp himself over the score, his sound and style but Bond is one of those jobs where you have to let the sound in, he did at times but not enough and I think he's afraid to sound too much like Barry.

    Now I'm not calling Arnold amazing but he was definitely getting somewhere with QOS score, Time To Get Out is probably his best Bond cue yet but he also disappears into nondescript maybe not as much as Newman's score did but his CR score while had some great moments also had some downright bloody awful (Miami sequence I'm looking at you).

    Whereas SPECTRE is screaming out for full on Bond in the score department and Arnold not using the JB theme so much during the the Craig era, that this may well have made his score for Craig's most Bond like film just right. Whereas I think Newman is going to disappoint in this department and be too busy wanting us to hear his sound rather than the Bond sound.

    I hope come November (or October) I get to eat my words and Thomas Newman delivers a score worthy of SPECTRE but I'm skeptical, I guess we'll see.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I can appreciate the skepticism, but I'm willing to give Newman a chance. He will have to up his game considerably, as the stakes are quite high. SF was his first kick at the can, and I found it quite listenable in the context of the movie (I don't have the soundtrack cd so have not listened to it on its own, and realize it might not be so good as a standalone).

    I detected an element of finesse in Newman's compositions that I have missed for many years.
    ---

    I'm quite happy Arnold is not back. While I can appreciate the adulation for Barry (a true genius among composers), Arnold for the most part was not up to the job in my estimation. Yes, QoS was by far his best work, but for 11 long years we had to endure his mainly generic scores, which I personally found quite tedious and unbecoming of the excellence we have come to associate with James Bond. Terribly noisy action scoring, & otherwise pedestrian and unfocused work by and large. Not even up to the level of Jason Bourne, let alone Jack Bauer in my opinion.

    So, while I can understand doubts about Newman, I also have serious problems with David Arnold remaining as James Bond's go-to composer post-SP.

    As I've said elsewhere, once Mendes leaves the franchise, I sincerely hope that EON goes elsewhere. Personally I was quite impressed with Henry Jackman's and Matthew Margesan's work for Kingsman.

    In the meanwhile, I'm cautiously optimistic about SP.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    If you want generic, look at Hans Zimmer. David Arnold is anything but Generic.

    Newman needs to really up his game.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2015 Posts: 3,927
    Some of you are mentioning that you want a score with an emphasis on the horn section. I don't think that's going to happen. Today's film score is brooding strings and darker tones. If there are horns--they are deeper, muffled. This isn't just from Newman (or Zimmer). It's also Carter Burwell, Alexander Desplat (listen to his "Seals take Off" theme for Zero Dark Thirty--the horns there sound more like strings), and David Julyan, just to name a few. David Arnold's scores fr CR and QoS stayed away from horns, too...with a few exceptions, most notably the second half of "Blunt Instrument."

    Plus, we don't know the tone of the film, and Mendes has control over that. Like most directors, if he doesn't like a piece, the composer will change it or write soemthign new. This happened with the "Close Shave" piece which was written last minute to replace "Old Dog, New Tricks,' which Mendes thought was "too" sexually suggestive. I though the SF score was perfect for that film; I trust that SP's score will work well, too.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 29,633
    Murdock wrote: »
    I personally would like a more Barryesque score by Newman. More Bond theme and brass. Less repetitive electronic rhythms.

    I agree with that wholeheartedly.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    TripAces wrote: »
    Some of you are mentioning that you want a score with an emphasis on the horn section. I don't think that's going to happen. Today's film score is brooding strings and darker tones.

    Oh how I miss the days when Bond was SETTING trends instead of FOLLOWING them.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,970
    Composers can't be precious scoring a Bond film, no I wasn't a fan of Arnold's JB theme every 10 minutes but when composing the music for these films you need to be aware that there is a certain expectation.

    Barry invented the sound and all other people who sign on for the job need to realise they need to revisit that sound from time to time, unless someone is capable of reinventing the Bond sound in a new fresh and exciting way stick with what is best. No trying to make it sound like score from other films, which is what Newman's did at times.

    No I don't want Barry pastiche but a nod here and there and SPECTRE is crying out for a return to that Barry sound, Newman's score while fine at times in Skyfall this time will not be sufficient for SPECTRE, he needs to bring the Bond back in a big way and not be bothered with showcasing his own sound so much.

    Yes and the return of the brass as long as it's not that Austin Powers like sound from CR is definitely something this film requires, who cares what is fashionable it's what works.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    I'll gladly take Bond theme every 10 minutes than once for the End Credits. It's a James Bond movie for crying out loud. What's the point in not using the theme?
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,970
    I'm sorry I think that is excessive, every 30 minutes maybe, Barry used it often but he reworked it, Arnold just played the same arrangement or something not radically different.

    Look at Bond Back In Action from GF or This Never Happened To The Other Fella in OHMSS now if someone could rework it like that then I'd have no problem hearing it but playing the same version every 10 minutes just dilutes it's power.

    I don't need cliches to sell me it's a Bond film, the Craig era refreshingly bought an end to all the subtlety of sledgehammer Brosnan style which frankly just pasted all the tick the box moments of the series onto a generic action flick and tried to convince us it was Bond film, some were convinced I wasn't.

    I prefer Arnold's approach on the last 2 films he scored to his Brosnan ones. If you rework and tease it but just playing it blaring every ten minutes, I certainly hope not.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited February 2015 Posts: 3,157
    Arnold used the Bond theme a lot, but certainly not every ten minutes (unless you count the subtle hints when he uses the vamp, but we are talking about the "blaring" part)
    Tomorrow Never Dies: White Knight; Company Car; Bond drives to Paris; Backseat Driver; Bike Shop Fight; All in a Day's Work - with the exception of Company Car and Drive to Paris, it is used solely to score action sequences, which is exactly where it should be, and considering the movie is two hours long, it is not "every ten minutes".
    The World is Not Enough: Escape from Bilbao Bank; Come in 007; Caviar Factory. They're the only tracks I recall featuring the Bond theme in a blaring way.
    Die Another Day: Hovercraft Chase; Kiss of Life (does this even count?); Sword Fight (very short); Bond to Iceland; Ice Palace Fight; Whiteout; Antonov; Going down together - again, like for TND, it made sense in most of these tracks, considering the Bond theme accompanied Bond being, well, Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said in your last post @Shardlake. Could not have said it better
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,027
    @Shardlake you must be confused. Arnold never used the same arrangement of the Bond theme more than once. He wove it into various tracks. You could be thinking of the Earlier Bond movies that used the "Monty Norman" version every now and then when Bond is looking through his hotel.
    Walecs wrote: »
    Arnold used the Bond theme a lot, but certainly not every ten minutes (unless you count the subtle hints when he uses the vamp, but we are talking about the "blaring" part)
    Tomorrow Never Dies: White Knight; Company Car; Bond drives to Paris; Backseat Driver; Bike Shop Fight; All in a Day's Work - with the exception of Company Car and Drive to Paris, it is used solely to score action sequences, which is exactly where it should be, and considering the movie is two hours long, it is not "every ten minutes".
    The World is Not Enough: Escape from Bilbao Bank; Come in 007; Caviar Factory. They're the only tracks I recall featuring the Bond theme in a blaring way.
    Die Another Day: Hovercraft Chase; Kiss of Life (does this even count?); Sword Fight (very short); Bond to Iceland; Ice Palace Fight; Whiteout; Antonov; Going down together - again, like for TND, it made sense in most of this track, considering the Bond theme accompanied Bond being, well, Bond.

    I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said in your last post @Walecs. Could not have said it better
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @Walecs, to my ears Arnold used it without enough variation. I grew up on Barry and so hearing Arnold attempt to do what Barry did (so poorly to my ears) bordered on the offensive.

    No one can be Barry - I know that now - so I'm ok with someone trying to create their own sound. If one wants to do a Barry homage, then I expect absolute excellence. For me, Arnold came closest in QoS, but after 11 long years of listening to his less than stellar scores (to my tired ears), I have given him all the time I care to.

    I'm in agreement that Newman needs to attempt to emulate the Barry sound more. He has the ability to do that, as he is an excellent composer. Hopefully he gets instruction from EON and Mendes to do just that. Newman on his game is in a completely different league to Arnold as a composer imo.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 3,445
    Previous Monday i watched Gi Joe 2 and Airfight has some Bond style action music.



  • edited February 2015 Posts: 948
    I thought Arnold's best use of the Bond theme was when Bond is walking back to his hotel in TND and looks over his shoulder as the camera pans around to look too. It really adds to the drama

    How do we feel about the OHMSS theme for snow scenes is it sacred or is it just now 'bond+snow" music. I would love to hear it reworked in some capacity.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I would prefer if Newman homaged it with his own orchestral theme, rather than just incorporate it. However, I'm not averse to a portion of it being incorporated in some fashion - but would prefer a reimagining.
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