Music in SPECTRE

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    When Barry was presented the whole sequence of Bond going space, did he give up? Did he insult the producers and rage quit the film? No, he composed 'Flight Into Space'. That alone makes Barry an utter legend in my book.
  • Posts: 2,903
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.
    Memorable? Really? I cannot think of one memorable track from SF, that's how bad it is....
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.
    Memorable? Really? I cannot think of one memorable track from SF, that's how bad it is....

    Ditto. The only bit I remember is the lone reference to Adele's title song. And Newman couldn't even be arsed to orchestrate that bit himself.

    It's a sign of his arrogance that he refused to acknowledge the quality of Adele's song and work with it in his score IMO. He might have the external appearance of a nice chap, but I don't like him at all. Barry was a gruff, grumpy sounding Yorkshireman, but a great collaborator with other artists. Newman should be pretty ashamed in my view. Instead he gets an Oscar nod. Totally absurd.

    I still think people were voting for the title song and not Newman's score.
  • Posts: 2,903
    Getafix wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    So you'd rather have a Bland soundtrack that has no Bond theme at all than something memorable that will stand the test of time? What is the world coming too... @-)

    1. We weren't talking about the use of the Bond theme. (The "Barry sound" does not equal the use of the Bond theme.)
    2. What I want is something that is memorable AND fresh. Thomas Newman's Skyfall score is exactly that.
    Memorable? Really? I cannot think of one memorable track from SF, that's how bad it is....

    Ditto. The only bit I remember is the lone reference to Adele's title song. And Newman couldn't even be arsed to orchestrate that bit himself.

    It's a sign of his arrogance that he refused to acknowledge the quality of Adele's song and work with it in his score IMO. He might have the external appearance of a nice chap, but I don't like him at all. Barry was a gruff, grumpy sounding Yorkshireman, but a great collaborator with other artists. Newman should be pretty ashamed in my view. Instead he gets an Oscar nod. Totally absurd.

    I still think people were voting for the title song and not Newman's score.

    God knows why Mendes likes him so much. Give me Arnold any day.

  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    Posts: 260
    Lord, what I wouldn't give for a return to a classy, more thematic soundtrack. Title songs notwithstanding, the last decent track which held a nice overarching feel was probably Goldeneye (and even then). Things have gotten so "pop" and electronic since then.

    I wish to heck we could get back to something like OHMSS where you have a solid, SOLID tune that can be worked and woven into the very fabric of the whole thing...
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    I'll just leave this here. OHMSS Orchestral By David Arnold.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Mendes likes Newman so much because he is one of the greatest movie composers working today. I believe Skyfall has a great score, but I also believe Newman has delivered far greater scores before. His scores for Road to Perdition, Angels in America, Finding Nemo and Wall-E are truly exceptional.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Mendes likes Newman so much because he is one of the greatest movie composers working today. I believe Skyfall has a great score, but I also believe Newman has delivered far greater scores before. His scores for Road to Perdition, Angels in America, Finding Nemo and Wall-E are truly exceptional.

    I just don't understand this view at all. I've listened to them. They're fine, but utterly forgettable. Newman doesn't seem very able to write a recognisable theme or melody. His stuff is fine as background filler, but it really has nothing to distinguish it from hours of other generic movie music.

    I think Newman's score for American Beauty was excellent. It really added something very significant. But the others just don't stand out for me. Not bad by any means, but really lacking in anything distinctive. That's fine for a lot of films, but it really seems a shame with a Bond score - almost setting out to be bland.
  • Posts: 11,175
    @Murdock

    For some reason the first 35 seconds remind me of Kamen's score for LTK.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Getafix wrote: »
    I just don't understand this view at all. I've listened to them. They're fine, but utterly forgettable. Newman doesn't seem very able to write a recognisable theme or melody. His stuff is fine as background filler, but it really has nothing to distinguish it from hours of other generic movie music.

    A lot of people believe that every non-melodic movie score is automatically generic. I believe those people are very old fashioned. This is 2015, a great score doesn't need recognisable themes and does not need to be melodic. I am talking about scores like the one composed by Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    I just don't understand this view at all. I've listened to them. They're fine, but utterly forgettable. Newman doesn't seem very able to write a recognisable theme or melody. His stuff is fine as background filler, but it really has nothing to distinguish it from hours of other generic movie music.

    A lot of people believe that every non-melodic movie score is automatically generic. I believe those people are very old fashioned. This is 2015, a great score doesn't need recognisable themes and does not need to be melodic. I am talking about scores like the one composed by Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

    I think we have different views on what constitutes memorable then. I don't think every score has to have a strong melody to be memorable (although I'd argue if you don't have one for a Bond film you're into a losing streak). I've enjoyed a lot of Zimmer's scores, who I'm often told on here cannot write a theme to save his life . I thought his atonal melody-less scoring for 12 Years a Slave was incredible.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited March 2015 Posts: 16,184
    Getafix wrote: »
    I just don't understand this view at all. I've listened to them. They're fine, but utterly forgettable. Newman doesn't seem very able to write a recognisable theme or melody. His stuff is fine as background filler, but it really has nothing to distinguish it from hours of other generic movie music.

    This is 2015, a great score doesn't need recognisable themes and does not need to be melodic.

    What makes you feel this way? My opinions on Newman and Hans Zimmer have been quite clear. But what's wrong with Recognisable themes or melodies? Why do you feel they are outdated? Are you suggesting that all Film music today should sound similar? I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the subject.
  • Posts: 11,175
    I personally can remember quite a few moments from Newman's SF score. Not least the blasting of the Bond theme accompanying DC's angry reaction at seeing the Aston blown up.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Wow . That must have take real effort on Newman's part... I mean forcing himself to use it.

    If that was the most memorable part for you then that speaks volumes, doesn't it?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    @PanchitoPistoles is right in the general sense, there are many great scored today where the themes and melody are not as refined as before. But we're talking about James Bond here, where half the world population can easily hum the Bond theme when doing something badass. And contrary to other film franchises like Star Wars, Harry Potter and such, its not only the Bond theme that is recognizable, but nearly every main theme for each outing that are instantly recognisable aswell. So maybe the world changes but not Bond. CGI is all the craze now, should all the stunts in future Bond films be 100% cgi too? Nope, same goes for the soundtracks. Bond movies are THE films that demand instantly recognisable and easily hummable melodies.
  • Posts: 4,619
    @Murdock I don't think that scores with big themes and recognisable melodies are necessarily outdated, but I do think that most of them feel old-fashioned. In a new Star Wars movie for example I would not want to hear a very modern score. The Bond franchise on the other hand has always been about the present, and a modern score I think is simply a better fit.

    I also believe that a lot of people prefer scores with melodies and themes simply because they are easier to like when one listents to them on their own. Something like the score of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo requires more effort from its listeners.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think you're distorting what people are saying to fit your view. I don't have an issue with a score that has no stand out melodies. There are other qualities that count as well. That's not the only criticism of Newman's score. You seem to be saying that being unmelodic is in itself a virtue. Yet you yourself acknowledge that everyone is doing this any way. So what exactly is it about the Newman score that stands out for you?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    I like both 'modern' and 'old fashioned' types of soundtrack. But for Bond I much prefer scores with clear melodies and themes, althought a one off like GE I enjoyed quite a lot. I am sure there are many possibilies of such old fasioned scores for Bond without aping Barry's style constantly.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Bond music can still be Modern while still remaining thematic and memorable.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Trent & Raznor could do it, and I am sure would do a much, much better job than Newman did for SF. I loved the Social Network soundtrack.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Post SPECTRE. I'd like to see Michael Giacchino score a Bond movie or Danny Elfman. Elfman's score for Mission: Impossible is brilliant.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Giacchino is a genius. So many happy memories playing 'Medal of Honor Frontline' on my PS2, his soundtrack for that game was pure legendary stuff.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited March 2015 Posts: 3,157
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I personally can remember quite a few moments from Newman's SF score. Not least the blasting of the Bond theme accompanying DC's angry reaction at seeing the Aston blown up.

    Funny because IMO that part is cacophonic and ruins what would otherwise be one of the best Bond tracks ever.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    The music in Skyfall after the DB5 is destroyed and Bond lights the dynamite Sounds like Arnold's bike chase music in TND. Skyfall's score is a strange animal because it doesn't know exactly what it wants to sound like.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Getafix wrote: »
    So what exactly is it about the Newman score that stands out for you?

    His score composed for Skyfall is true to his own style, true to the spirit of the Bond films and modern - all in one. It stands out exactly because he has never composed the score of a big action movie like Skyfall before, and his quirky style is very unique in the big blockbuster realm... I can easily see why some people don't like this score, because it is a big departure, and because music is very subjective after all. But generic? How can anyone call this for example generic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yep1md_UUt4
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Compared to OHMSS, DAF, TLD by Barry, 99% of modern soundtracks are generic, and I include SF's score in that percentage.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    I don't think New Digs is "Generic" I didn't like it very much as it felt more suited to The Avengers or a film like that.
  • Posts: 2,903
    Getafix wrote: »
    So what exactly is it about the Newman score that stands out for you?

    His score composed for Skyfall is true to his own style, true to the spirit of the Bond films and modern - all in one. It stands out exactly because he has never composed the score of a big action movie like Skyfall before, and his quirky style is very unique in the big blockbuster realm... I can easily see why some people don't like this score, because it is a big departure, and because music is very subjective after all. But generic? How can anyone call this for example generic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yep1md_UUt4

    That example there is very generic to me. Also, there are other moments in the film where he is blatantly ripping off The Dark Knight theme (hanging on the elevator in Shanghai, the escape tunnel at Skyfall, etc.)

    He actually copied Zimmer more than Barry in SF, which again is disgraceful.

  • Posts: 1,552
    Can we, at least, agree that the quality of the film scores are subjective? What one fan enjoys, another hates - neither opinion is correct - You shouldn't have to justify what you enjoy about something, sometimes there isn't a justification - you like it because you enjoy it, you dislike it because you don't.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,314
    What I love about Newmans SF score is how it's not necessarily built on leitmotifs. It's not got "the imperial March" or "colonel bogey" as a recurrent theme.

    It's more subtle than that. And I find it tremendously listenable. It compliments the film with a growing sense of foreboding rather than aurally signposting how we should feel.

    Melodically it's unusual. The chords and melodies in some sequences are bit unpredictable, but I like that.

    Barry was Barry. Arnold wanted to be. Serra, conti and Hamlisch are all time capsules of varying degrees of horribleness.

    I find newmans score different but engaging.

    Looking forward to SP
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