Music in SPECTRE

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  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Walecs wrote: »
    (he didn't rely much on the Bond theme).
    It's probably why they reused Arnold's Casino Royale arrangment at several point in Skyfall.

    However with SPECTRE looking a lot like OHMSS, I am reminded of this arrangement by David Arnold himself.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,584
    I truly hope Newman is aware of the criticism that surrounded his SF score (getting nominated for an Oscar doesn't exactly scream "criticism" IMO).
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Murdock wrote: »
    I personally would like a more Barryesque score by Newman. More Bond theme and brass. Less repetitive electronic rhythms.

    Totally agree. Goodbye to the drm and bass brosnan era please. The classic gunbarrel music and sequence is required the the beginning too.....GF style.

  • DrShatterhandDrShatterhand Garden of Death, near Belfast
    edited March 2015 Posts: 805
    I think the 'issue' with the SF score for me is that while it works well in the movie, which is after all its purpose, but isn't something, unlike the vast majority of Barry scores, I would stick on to listen to.

    While I recognise that Newman is a top composer who wants to stamp his own mark on the series, I hope he at least makes more of an effort to make SP sound more like Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I think the 'issue' with the SF score for me is that it works well in the movie, which is after all its purpose, but isn't something, unlike the vast majority of Barry scores, I would stick on to listen to.

    I agree with this @DrShatterhand. I really like the score in the context of the movie, but I haven't bought the soundtrack cd. I have no real desire to either. Conversely, all Barry's soundtracks are on rotation in my car.

    I too am looking for a more orchestral Barryesque score this time, although I understand Newman's possible desire not to seem to come of as 2nd best imitator of the great man, or a sort of Barry-lite.

    If this is is last shot at Bond (possibly), I hope he shows us what he can do orchestrally.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 2,903
    The score in SF for me was one of the weakest links in the film, moreso than the plot holes in the script.

    I really missed Arnold in SF, as he definitely raised his game in CR and QoS, giving us the best Bond scores in years, probably since TLD. It also helps that Arnold is a huge Barry fan, so he has no issues in emulating a Barry sound throughout. QoS sounded like Barry circa 1971.

    Newman may be a bit of a snob, in that he doesn't like the idea of having to sound like Barry, but force his own take instead, which for me didn't work in SF. It was either very generic sounding for most part, or OTT brassy Bond cues which sounded slightly ridiculous and amateurish almost.

    Arnold got it right, in that he could sound like Barry away from Bond, without ever forcing down our throats a Bond theme cue to sound like Barry the way Newman did.

    Night at the Opera was a nod to a retro sounding YOLT and DAF, and Vesper's theme sounded like Somewhere in Time or Hanover Street.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    @jetsetwilly, Post of the day! =D>
  • Posts: 2,903
    Murdock wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly, Post of the day! =D>

    Cheers. I do my best....

    B-)
  • Posts: 1,314
    My favourite piece of Barry's is "journey to Blofelds Hidaway". Beautiful.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @jetsetwilly, you are going to be in for a pleasant surprise with SP. Wait for it, and see.
  • Posts: 2,903
    bondjames wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly, you are going to be in for a pleasant surprise with SP. Wait for it, and see.
    I really hope so. Do you think Newman will pull out a better soundtrack this time round?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly, you are going to be in for a pleasant surprise with SP. Wait for it, and see.
    I really hope so. Do you think Newman will pull out a better soundtrack this time round?

    Unquestionably and without doubt. He has an Oscar nomination for SF, and he won a Grammy for it. Personally I thought it was a very good score, given he did not use the Bond theme and had limited orchestration (both essential to Bond, so to achieve a listenable score without these two elements is particularly impressive). Whether the awards are deserved or not, he also has the privelege of being called back again.

    This whole team has one thing on its mind, and that is to top SF (I've never heard them come out and state it like they did on the video blog from a couple of weeks back). The score is an essential part of Bond. EON knows what worked the last time and they'll instruct Newman to fix what did not.

    There is a lot of 'spy' competition this year ('imitators' are out in full force, like in the early 60's due to the success of SF), and Bond is the top dog in this hunt. If you've heard the absolutely brilliant Kingsman score, you'll know what Bond is up against this year. Last time this happened was NSNA vs. OP in 1983. They will step up to the plate and hit a home run like they've done before. The stakes are high.

    We are in for an absolutely epic & iconic treat score wise. I guarantee it.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,798
    Newman had a fair chunk of the orchestra cut out late in the day due to the budget on SF. I suspect this time around he will have the full set.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    bondjames wrote: »
    Last time this happened was NSNA vs. OP in 1983.[/i]score wise. I guarantee it.
    NSNA score was so bad that not only there was no competition with Barry's score for OP, but it definitely stands as the worst Bond score ever.
  • Posts: 4,541
    IMHO, we are looking for somethings that's big, bold, brassy and catchy and it has to have "swagger" and confidence (just like OHMSS)
  • Posts: 1,181
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, we are looking for somethings that's big, bold, brassy and catchy and it has to have "swagger" and confidence (just like OHMSS)

    I agree wholeheartedly. Bring on the strings and horns in an original way for Spectre. Easier said then done though! I think there is a time and place for an electronic sound, but I much prefer an orchestral approach.

    Any more info on who is singing the Title Song? Or will it be a ballsy instrumental?

  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    Ed83 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, we are looking for somethings that's big, bold, brassy and catchy and it has to have "swagger" and confidence (just like OHMSS)

    I agree wholeheartedly. Bring on the strings and horns in an original way for Spectre. Easier said then done though! I think there is a time and place for an electronic sound, but I much prefer an orchestral approach.

    Any more info on who is singing the Title Song? Or will it be a ballsy instrumental?

    Lets just hope that the Austria scenes get a OHMSS fell and not an electric sound, but rather orchestral approach as @Ed83 said.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Orchestral approach all the way for me.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Ed83 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, we are looking for somethings that's big, bold, brassy and catchy and it has to have "swagger" and confidence (just like OHMSS)

    I agree wholeheartedly. Bring on the strings and horns in an original way for Spectre. Easier said then done though! I think there is a time and place for an electronic sound, but I much prefer an orchestral approach.

    Any more info on who is singing the Title Song? Or will it be a ballsy instrumental?


    Lets just hope that the Austria scenes get a OHMSS fell and not an electric sound, but rather orchestral approach as @Ed83 said.

    What it can't be is a pastiche of OHMSS. I have a feeling Newman will do his utmost to not draw comparisons, so I'm not banking on it sounding like that film at all.
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    RC7 wrote: »
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Ed83 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, we are looking for somethings that's big, bold, brassy and catchy and it has to have "swagger" and confidence (just like OHMSS)

    I agree wholeheartedly. Bring on the strings and horns in an original way for Spectre. Easier said then done though! I think there is a time and place for an electronic sound, but I much prefer an orchestral approach.

    Any more info on who is singing the Title Song? Or will it be a ballsy instrumental?


    Lets just hope that the Austria scenes get a OHMSS fell and not an electric sound, but rather orchestral approach as @Ed83 said.

    What it can't be is a pastiche of OHMSS. I have a feeling Newman will do his utmost to not draw comparisons, so I'm not banking on it sounding like that film at all.


    You're probably right, he will have his own approach
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The problem with his own approach is will he be able to let the Bond in? Instead of showcasing his own sound.

    I don't want pastiche but I do want some Barry influence unless he can blow us away with whole new exciting sound, I'm willing to give him a chance and see what he delivers.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I think we will hear much more orchestral elements this time.

    As I mentioned above, the Kingsman score has set the bar very high as a Barry homage, and Newman will likely be instructed to top it. He has what it takes skill wise, but he has to be told clearly by EON that the Barry Bond sound is a must for this movie. I don't mind him bringing his own unique sound in some areas, but he must have more orchestra

    Either way, I'm sure we're in for a treat. His reputation will be in tatters otherwise.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2015 Posts: 10,512
    I listened to the Kingsman score the other day and I must say, I was nonplussed. There were some interesting bits in there, but I prefer Newman's SF. Newman needs a signature cue for SP that he can weave throughout the soundtrack. Even if it's unrelated to the title song, it can still be done. It wouldn't mean he had to ape the Barry sound, but the structure. This is a great example of Barry's recurring cues.



    Everytime we see Necros we hear the instrumental 'Where has everybody gone?'. This is what I missed from SF, that Arnold delivered with his scores. Look at OHMSS, it's littered with repetitive cues. This is what a Bond score should be delivering. It should be in your face.
  • Posts: 2,903
    RC7 wrote: »
    I listened to the Kingsman score the other day and I must say, I was nonplussed. There were some interesting bits in there, but I prefer Newman's SF. Newman needs a signature cue for SP that he can weave throughout the soundtrack. Even if it's unrelated to the title song, it can still be done. It wouldn't mean he had to ape the Barry sound, but the structure. This is a great example of Barry's recurring cues.



    Everytime we see Necros we hear the instrumental 'Where has everybody gone?'. This is what I missed from SF, that Arnold delivered with his scores. Look at OHMSS, it's littered with repetitive cues. This is what a Bond score should be delivering. It should be in your face.
    Agree totally. Barry's soundtracks were often minimal in terms of actual tracks, because he would so often reuse them throughout the film - but what tracks they were!!

    Newman, like it or not, has to ape some of the Barry sound, whether that goes against his principles or not. He's probably getting paid a shed-load to do the soundtrack anyway, and with such a high profile number like a Bond film, he should deliver what the audience expects - and that is a Bond sound, which is basically John Barry.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    If Newman attempts the John Barry sound he will deliver a masterpiece. It is not a question of skill in his case, but desire. EON holds the key in this case.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I remember reading the comments that were made by someone on the inside during the scoring of SF, saying they were getting goose bumps from the sound they were hearing.

    To be honest there are moments in the SF score but nothing that put my hairs on end like Barry did. Newman needs to deliver the Bondian sound and yes I agree, Barry was great at taking motifs and weaving them in and out of his cues.

    I think Newman seems a little too precious to attempt this, yeah he might have produced more varied cues but did they compare to the likes of Bond Back in Action, Odd Jobs Pressing Engagement, Space March, This Never Happened to the Other Fella, Ski Chase, Centrifuge and Connie Put down, Flight Into Space, Ice Chase or Hercules Takes off and Mujahedin & Opium?

    Like I said I don't want a pastiche like Arnold was guilty of at times but we do want that big orchestra sound and not some nondescript unmemorable noise, something with some swing and excitement and yes JB theme, full on at least twice within the film.

    I seriously hope he does deliver and I'm not writing him off yet but I heard nothing in the SF score to give me the idea that he will but this is definitely a time when EON need to direct him towards something that screams Bond, we've had the subtlety while we introduce Craig's Bond well he's now the full article and nothing else will suffice.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    If Newman attempts the John Barry sound he will deliver a masterpiece. It is not a question of skill in his case, but desire. EON holds the key in this case.

    I actually don't think Newman has it in him to do the 'Barry sound'. Not only would he not want to go down that homage route, but I don't see any evidence that he has the ability to write themes of the quality of Barry. Frankly, who does?

    For me the best thing I can say about the SF score is that at least it's not as bad as Serra's GE score, and some of the bad bits of Arnold (sometimes Arnold was really bad, although on balance I prefer him to Newman). SF is a consistently mediocre score, that while never really adding very much or being remotely memorable, at least does not distract from what's happening on the screen.

    SF was a pretty grey and downbeat movie, and Newman wrote a score that seemed to reinforce that - I assume it was intentional. So we can perhaps hope that if SP is more of an upbeat movie, that Newman will respond accordingly.

    I've tried to find a memorable theme from a Newman film score and the only one I've ever found was the American Beauty main theme. He just doesn't seem to do memorable. It's more about mood (generally quite down beat). I find his scores have a sort of ambient, slightly sedative affect.

    My biggest wish would of course be that Newman is required to collaborate with the title song composer, something which he rather pettily refused to do on SF.
  • Posts: 2,903
    Mendes should have been told that he is working with Arnold, simple as, instead of bringing his own dull composer in for 2 films. I doubt he would have been able to do this under Cubby's reign.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Bond music needs to be loud and in your face. Not subtle and in the background.
  • Posts: 12,436
    Murdock wrote: »
    Bond music needs to be loud and in your face. Not subtle and in the background.

    I think some of both has always worked for me personally. Off the top of my head I think AVTAK and TLD are decent examples.
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