No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 12,294
    bondjames wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    In my time being a Bond fan, this wait is the worst yet between two Bond films. But I did miss the gap between LTK and GE - still the worst statistically.
    What about QoS to SF? That was 4 years too.

    Not as painful for me. Probably because my love for Bond grew a lot bigger since SF came out.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    That looks pretty good @ClarkDevlin. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of their games?
    If only...

    ...But, by all means, avoid the GoldenEye remake and 007 Legends. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    In my time being a Bond fan, this wait is the worst yet between two Bond films. But I did miss the gap between LTK and GE - still the worst statistically.
    What about QoS to SF? That was 4 years too.

    Not as painful for me. Probably because my love for Bond grew a lot bigger since SF came out.
    I can appreciate that. If I was them, I would have perhaps followed up SF with two Bond films in relatively quick succession to keep the momentum of the new audience going.
  • Posts: 12,294
    I’ve been a fan since about 2007, so near the start of the Craig era. QoS to SF was still a bad wait, but this new wait is far worse for some reason. Maybe because SP disappointed me.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    I think it's because they have been deliberately so tight lipped due to the hacks that happened.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    My excitement for Bond declined since SF a lot. I mean, I still love the films and all, but recently I feel burned out by the franchise. So, this wait isn't really having any sort of an effect on me, to be honest.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm not that fussed either, because I'm not that enthused by what I've heard so far. Either it will be decent or it won't be, but ultimately I'm far more excited for B26 at this point.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm not that fussed either, because I'm not that enthused by what I've heard so far. Either it will be decent or it won't be, but ultimately I'm far more excited for B26 at this point.
    Haha, life after the afterlife. :))
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    Yep, me too. I just want them to get Bond 25 out of the way so we can really get to work on righting the ship. My expectations for Bond 25 are tepid at best, and that could only change if Craig was no longer involved.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm not that fussed either, because I'm not that enthused by what I've heard so far. Either it will be decent or it won't be, but ultimately I'm far more excited for B26 at this point.
    Haha, life after the afterlife. :))
    Looking forward to new beginnings eventually. It's always exciting when that happens because we don't know what to expect.
  • Posts: 9,785
    The time between skyfall and spectre and well now is the worse because st least between Die Another Day and Casino Royale we got Nightfire Everything or Nothing From Russia with Love and Goldeneye Rogue Agent

    For Quantum to Skyfall we had Quantum of Solace the video game Blood Stone and Goldeneye to keep us going but now uhm uh I have no idea
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,334
    Coming soon to all consoles. Bill Tanner: Filing Simulator. :))
  • Yep, me too. I just want them to get Bond 25 out of the way so we can really get to work on righting the ship. My expectations for Bond 25 are tepid at best, and that could only change if Craig was no longer involved.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm not that fussed either, because I'm not that enthused by what I've heard so far. Either it will be decent or it won't be, but ultimately I'm far more excited for B26 at this point.

    I was in the same boat as you two, hoping for a fresh start, but I'm fairly optimistic about the next one. I enjoyed the last two movies a lot. Can't say I'm not disappointed that they don't seem to be going the YOLT route though. Yeah the dead wife/girlfriend thing is played out but for the first time in 50 years they had an opportunity to do the story of the book justice, with the perfect actor for it, and instead they seem to have thrown it away because Spectre was divisive (my guess is it'll be an Unforgiven/Logan esque stand alone movie).

    Still though, I am optimistic. Mostly because I think EON have been delivering for the last few years and because I think Craig is really keen to go out on a high, so I'm excited to see what they have in store. I do think it's coming out two years too late though. I know he's only done four movies but 13 years is still a very long time for anyone to be Bond. I'd have been much more excited for another Daniel Craig film if they got the ball rolling after Spectre. Instead, after two years of speculation, it just felt a bit anticlimatic imo. We waited two years to find out we're getting more of the same.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The first film of a new tenure is always exciting. Trouble is, if it’s a belter the hype train is generally derailed by its successor. Likewise, if it’s lacklustre the goodwill is somewhat diminished (as is the case now). That’s why I take them as they come, rather than make my mind up beforehand. Loads of Bond related stuff to do in the interim (although slightly more difficult in the US, granted).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I do think it's coming out two years too late though. I know he's only done four movies but 13 years is still a very long time for anyone to be Bond. I'd have been much more excited for another Daniel Craig film if they got the ball rolling after Spectre. Instead, after two years of speculation, it just felt a bit anticlimatic imo. We waited two years to find out we're getting more of the same.
    You've hit the nail on the head here, at least for me. I'm sure he wants to go out on a high but I think for the sake of the series they would be better off rebooting given the time that's elapsed and given they sort of closed him out with the last one anyway, especially if they're not doing a continuation story. It sort of defeats the purpose. The Colbert thing was quite anticlimactic, although I suppose a star director could rekindle my interest somewhat. I'm sure it will be a decent film at the end of the day but strategically it's time to move on imho.
    RC7 wrote: »
    The first film of a new tenure is always exciting. Trouble is, if it’s a belter the hype train is generally derailed by its successor.
    That's a very good point. I can imagine that all of the 2nd films have been seen as relative disappointments apart from FRWL (I can certainly say that was the case for TND & QoS for me). Sophomore blues seem to be par for the course for EON.
  • Posts: 632
    bondjames wrote: »

    That's a very good point. I can imagine that all of the 2nd films have been seen as relative disappointments apart from FRWL (I can certainly say that was the case for TND & QoS for me). Sophomore blues seem to be par for the course for EON.

    TND was my favourite of the Brosnan era. Perfect formula Bond. Over the top villain, sacrificial lamb, brassy score with the Bond tune all over it. I hope we get to hear more of the theme in Bond 25. I really want Arnold to return!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    JET007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That's a very good point. I can imagine that all of the 2nd films have been seen as relative disappointments apart from FRWL (I can certainly say that was the case for TND & QoS for me). Sophomore blues seem to be par for the course for EON.
    TND was my favourite of the Brosnan era. Perfect formula Bond. Over the top villain, sacrificial lamb, brassy score with the Bond tune all over it. I hope we get to hear more of the theme in Bond 25. I really want Arnold to return!
    +1
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    JET007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    That's a very good point. I can imagine that all of the 2nd films have been seen as relative disappointments apart from FRWL (I can certainly say that was the case for TND & QoS for me). Sophomore blues seem to be par for the course for EON.

    TND was my favourite of the Brosnan era. Perfect formula Bond. Over the top villain, sacrificial lamb, brassy score with the Bond tune all over it. I hope we get to hear more of the theme in Bond 25. I really want Arnold to return!

    I also have a lot of love for TND, the point I (we) were making is that generally the immediate follow up is rarely feted as being ‘superior’ to the debut, whatever we as Bond fans think.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm sure there are many who like TND, but how was it generally received at the time in relation to GE?

    I think GE is still seen as the best film of the Brosnan era by most and is the most successful on an inflation adjusted basis. If I remember correctly, QoS was also seen as being a bit disappointing (and also underperformed on an inflation adjusted basis), and we know that LTK & TMWTGG didn't do too well compared to their predecessors so they can't have been much loved.

    I think only FRWL surpassed the box office (on an inflation adjusted basis) of the first film in an actor's tenure and is generally highly regarded.

    So it appears that there is a sophomore effect.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    But at least the second entry always arrives in a timely manner...


    Even if Bond 25 is a critical darling, it's hard to see how the law of diminishing returns won't take affect at the box office.
  • re: why the 2015-2019 gap may seem more frustrating than the 1989-1995 and 2008-2012 ones.

    With the latter, there was a reason you could understand (if not like). In both cases, MGM's weakness as a studio was the root cause of events that caused delays. During the 1989-95 period, you had Danjaq/Eon suing to protect its interests. In 2008-2012, you had MGM in bankruptcy.

    With the 2015-2019 gap, there's no obvious reason. MGM has been gradually improving its financial position. All we've gotten publicly is, "Everybody's a little bit tired." (Daniel Craig at The New Yorker event, fall 2016)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Those are good points @AlexanderWaverly , although there was that whole thing about selling to the Chinese which apparently took up most of 2016 (which we only learned about after the fact and when it became stillborn).

    So they lost a year and then waited another 4-5 months for Craig to get on board (by his own admission he signed on sometime in the April to June timeframe).
  • Posts: 1,680
    The four year gap will make the next one fresher & the script is usually tighter. Skyfalls four year gap should have resulted in a tighter script. They were lucky the character arc & story resonated with audiences.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Tighter script- are you high?
  • Posts: 1,680
    The scripts are usually better coming off a 4 year gap vs 2-3. Years.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Yeah CR has an amazing script. It’s got the plot, the dialogue, and the character. However Quantum, which had a hard writing process also has a great plot, good dialogue, and a good character arc for bond. Skyfall on the other hand has a shitty plot, some good dialogue and good character. While spectre lacks all three. I don’t find any correlation between years and writing quality.
  • Posts: 15,870
    Yeah CR has an amazing script. It’s got the plot, the dialogue, and the character. However Quantum, which had a hard writing process also has a great plot, good dialogue, and a good character arc for bond. Skyfall on the other hand has a shitty plot, some good dialogue and good character. While spectre lacks all three. I don’t find any correlation between years and writing quality.

    I certainly don't feel 4 years add quality to the writing. I thought, for instance, FRWL had an amazing script, great dialogue, characters, and only one year had passed since the previous film.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 2,896
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I certainly don't feel 4 years add quality to the writing. I thought, for instance, FRWL had an amazing script, great dialogue, characters, and only one year had passed since the previous film.

    That's because the plot, characters, and preliminary dialogue were already supplied by an excellent novel. Writing a Bond film from scratch is a much greater challenge than adapting one from an already good Fleming novel.

    That said, though common sense suggests taking more time to write something would increase its quality, the three years between Skyfall and Spectre resulted in a script that felt like the work of three weeks. Evidently many drafts were written and rejected or reworked, resulting in a lot of wasted time, since I get the impression there was no central figure guiding the writing process; no central authority with a vision of what the film should be and do. Instead the producers, director, star, and Sony bigwigs produced a muddle of decisions, resulting in a farrago.

    An efficient production team should be able to take advantage of a three/four year period to produce a script that has been perfected by time. For whatever reasons, the Bond team is unable to do this.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Maybe this time someone reads the script before shooting and Moneypenny won't become Bond's secret sister.

    To me, this wait is frustrating because I was disappointed by the last film. But I can never be burnt out by the franchise - whatever lies ahead, I can put in a disc of Goldfinger, Thunderball, OHMSS, Casino Royale, QoS, LALD, TLD, FRWL, DN or SF and everything's good.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    It seems like every Bond film from the Craig era is trying to be the next OHMSS to one extent or another. That's part of the problem, they can't seem to write anything that's just a cool, fun Bond story. There is an underlying sense of pretension, like they're above telling a gripping yarn without the extras. I have a feeling Babs has something to do with it. I simply don't believe she has any interest in making something that isn't preoccupied with the emotions and insecurities of Bond. I can't see her making a Bond film that doesn't have that as it's central driving force.
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