No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    And while we're on the topic: when did 007 ever "rape" a woman?
    Allegedly he violated Pussy in GF.

    That's a bit trickier. He forced himself on her, for sure, but after the kiss we have no way of knowing what happened next or what PG's response was.
    I quite agree. I just know that this is the scene which has caused a bit of controversy of late with the SJW crowd.

    This is a tricky one; today I have no doubt that it would be handled differently. At the time, and in the context of the film it boils down to two alphas trying to impose their dominance over the other. They are in a rough business; Pussy is not a naïve, weak woman. She and Bond are dancing a dance that isn't always tender.
    I couldn't agree more. Pussy was quite a forward woman for her time. I always saw it as voluntary submission.

    I can appreciate that her conversion to the straight and narrow would ruffle a few feathers today too though.
  • Guy Hamilton, early 1990s, in the "banned" Criterion commentaries.

    “I think this is one of the trickiest scenes in the movie. How to go from dy** to sexpot to heroine in the best of two falls, one submission and one roll in the hay. I suppose it comes off.”
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 2,115
    Is Bond an anti-hero? Or a flawed hero?

    Definition of anti-hero via Dictionary.com

    a protagonist who lacks the attributes that make a heroic figure, as nobility of mind and spirit, a life or attitude marked by action or purpose, and the like.

    Michael Corleone is an anti-hero, i.e. a less evil gangster, but still one who has his brother (among many others) killed.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,981
    I’m sure when all was said and done she still had a taste for honey; 007 was a one off; there’s only one Bond ;)
  • I disagree with Patricia Fearing as well. That wasn't presented in the film as rape.

    He blackmailed her for sex.

    "Please, don't tell Dr. Wain. I'd lose my job...."

    "Well, I suppose my silence could have a price...."

    "You don't mean..."

    "Oh, yessss...."
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I disagree with Patricia Fearing as well. That wasn't presented in the film as rape.

    He blackmailed her for sex.

    "Please, don't tell Dr. Wain. I'd lose my job...."

    "Well, I suppose my silence could have a price...."

    "You don't mean..."

    "Oh, yessss...."

    That’s what I’m saying, it’s rape, there’s no arguing. Same thing with pussy galore, he throws her down and she struggles to get him off and he forces her till she likes it, that’s rape. I don’t mean to make this personal but anyone who doesn’t think the TB thing is rape, think of your significant other working that job and then being coerced into sex, would you call it rape?
  • Posts: 12,270
    They’re both tricky because both seem to go along with it and are happy with Bond after. In the moment though they’re both obviously questionable moves by Bond. They both give themselves in to Bond before the sex, so it’s hard to say for certain.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,036
    I disagree with Patricia Fearing as well. That wasn't presented in the film as rape.
    He blackmailed her for sex.

    "Please, don't tell Dr. Wain. I'd lose my job...."

    "Well, I suppose my silence could have a price...."

    "You don't mean..."

    "Oh, yessss...."
    The film didn't present her as a victim of rape. She accepted his advances without skipping a beat. Through it all she seems very self-aware. And as they part she'd like to meet up with James again.

    "Any time, James. Any place."
  • Posts: 12,270
    Yeah. Pussy is the most iffy, but even then she accepts before the sex.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?
  • Posts: 1,031
    NicNac wrote: »
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?

    Friends is racist, sexist and homophobic?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2018 Posts: 15,423
    Dennison wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?
    Friends is racist, sexist and homophobic?
    According to the SJW millennials, that's the apparent case.
  • Posts: 2,598
    Croatia would be a fantastic location for Bond 25. I can't understand all this talk about places like Sydney. This city merely consists of boring looking, modern buildings. What a dull location for a Bond flick. There are beaches but you can find beaches anywhere. I read that the new Mission Impossible film (MI6 hmmm...) isn't going to be a globe trotting adventure this time and will be largely set in one place with emphasis on character movement. I hope that the Bond people take a leaf from their book if this is indeed the case. I miss the days of a Bond film where Bond would mostly stay put, soak up the local culture and we would learn more about the characters in the film.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Dennison wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?
    Friends is racist, sexist and homophobic?
    According to the SJW millennials, that's the apparent case.

    Indeed. No black characters, lesbians the butt of too many jokes, Chandler-is-gay jokes abound, stuff like that.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    NicNac wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?
    Friends is racist, sexist and homophobic?
    According to the SJW millennials, that's the apparent case.
    Indeed. No black characters, lesbians the butt of too many jokes, Chandler-is-gay jokes abound, stuff like that.
    Beats me, mate. If anything, Friends is a progressive show that's for everyone... Well, everyone who knows how to enjoy life and isn't a whinging twat, anyway.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Yes, like I say there probably is no Millennial movement to re-write TV history, it's the media/twitter/facebook stirring the pot and sniggering in the corner as we all get defensive and outraged.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,600
    I have no issue with the Bond scenes discussed as I am mature enough to know that Bond is a flawed character. That's part of the attraction to the series. But, one does have to ask, is the modern, younger audience educated enough to realise this. When they see Bond use physical violence towards a woman to get sex, do they realise the context of this? Or do they think, "well, if Bond can do it, then so can I"

    What responsiblility does the movie industry have to "set an example"? It's a tricky one. I think one of the key issues is that, once we take it for granted that Bond is a flawed character, what are the ramifications? Re the two scenes discussed. Is it not the ramifications of his behavoir that need to be discussed? He is basically rewarded for his behavoir on both occasions.

    To offer a comparison, in Dirty Harry, he tortures the suspect in order to gather information. At the time, we sympathise with him as we see the suspect as the bad guy, But we learn that his behavoir has ruined the investigation as he has not respected procedure. So his character faults have ramifications.

    Another example, (sorry, on a role), the the Magnificent Seven and the line I quoted "well we may" (rape them). As the film develops, we learn that actually the real heroes are the farmers. They have the bravery to settle down, commit, from long term realtionships and raise kids etc. The gunfighters are losers :

    "Vin: Yeah, sure. Everything. After awhile you can call bartenders and faro dealers by their first name - maybe two hundred of 'em! Rented rooms you live in - five hundred! Meals you eat in hash houses - a thousand! Home - none! Wife - none! Kids... none! Prospects - zero. Suppose I left anything out? "

    So they are aware that they have failed when the farmers have succeeded. This is an element of Bond's character that either does not exist or we never see. That line could very easily apply to Bond.

    So I think it's interesting to then go back to Bond and ask, what are the ramifications when he sexually assaults women? Anti-heroes and character faults are interesting. But if they have no negative effect on the world around the character, is it actually a character fault? Does this send the mesage that, it's OK to have character faults (includng assaulting women) as it does not really matter. There are no consequesnces to your behavoir.

  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    Personally I don't think they have got anything in place yet.

    Oh, they have. Craig would never announce his return if they haven't anything well planned.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Surely this thread has surpassed some kind of Guiness world record by now - longest; least informative; most irrelevant?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    1300 pages of nothing. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Surely this thread has surpassed some kind of Guiness world record by now - longest; least informative; most irrelevant?
    The first page gets you everything you need to know to stay informed and up to date on the facts (which are unfortunately surprisingly sparse at this time).
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    I’m still predicting that news will pick up come March. (Fingers crossed).
  • Posts: 1,162
    NicNac wrote: »
    I keep reading about Millennials (or whatever the hell they are called) being concerned and shocked by what they see in Friends, and Bond films and Only Fools And Horses, but isn't this just the media stirring it up?

    Aren't we just being manipulated as ever by the media? Has anyone actually got evidence of any outraged 17 year olds who have watched Friends and been disgusted by its racism, sexism and homophobia?

    And am I in the wrong thread to ask the question?

    Excellent question that naggs on me as well. I can honestly say that here in Germany at least that isn't the case.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    A lot (but not all) of this is politics and projection. Some of us see through it.

    EDIT: Unfortunately for a time Bond may have to be a whipping boy while a high stakes game is played in the media.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2018 Posts: 5,185
    NicNac wrote: »
    Yes, like I say there probably is no Millennial movement to re-write TV history, it's the media/twitter/facebook stirring the pot and sniggering in the corner as we all get defensive and outraged.

    Agreed, i think this debate is mostly just confusion generated by the media because it gets people angry/involved and generates clicks.

    In reality no decent woman who is fighting for things like equal pay (you know, real issues) would give a toss whether a Movie character has a Penis or not and what he does with it. Its irrelevant.

    Only people with No clue about life and too much time on their Hands, as well as serious brain damage (in short: swj-millenials), would believe that making Bond female, or PC would somehow improve our Society, and get women more respect in the workplace :))
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2018 Posts: 4,554
    Here's my Bond confession for the day: I never knew (or picked up on) PG being a lesbian at all, in the first several times I saw GF. That never crossed my mind. It wasn't until I read a piece about the film that it was presented to me. Am I alone in that?

    Yes, there are two lines: 1. She being "immune" to him; 2. Bond asking what it will take to switch sides. But I had taken both at face value. LOL
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I never knew about PG's lesbianism until I read the novel itself.
  • Posts: 12,270
    Only have seen the film, I could sort of tell. Not 100% certain, but there were slight details that made it seem so. It’s never explicitly said (perhaps because that was so controversial in films at the time), but around the 3rd watch, I could see the implications.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I can't remember when I figured it out or if I read it somewhere first. I'm quite certain I didn't know when I first saw the film though because I had no idea what that was when I was a kid.

    I thought Christmas was one initially though, at least at the Russian base.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,981
    Well with her name, all female pilots and telling Bond that his charms won’t work on her it was fairly obvious.
    If done today I could see a scene where she and Bond are parting company after Goldfinger’s death where she tells Bond
    “Thank you Mr. Bond, you’ve taught me that variety, is the spice of life “
    As she walks away with one of her favorite pilots Bond quips, as he raises a brow, “Indeed it is”
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