No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 6,740
    bondjames wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    All right, I know how unpopular this is but after seeing Dunkirk, I posted here that I thought Styles would be a candidate. I know his “boy-band” roots turn some people off but he has an intangible star quality and a look that can be surprising intense.
    By the time Nolan would take over Harry would be nearing 30, a perfect age to launch a series that would allow Nolan the time to show Bond mature into a double O

    So you're suggesting to reboot the reboot and one of the best Bond films?

    Well, Nolan has said that he knows exactly what he wants to do with Bond; in it’s current incarnation, they have painted themselves into a corner by making Bond’s age an issue.
    Now it is possible that they could drop another actor into the "Craig Timeline" but it's unlikely, particularly if someone of Nolan's stature, and vision. takes the reigns.

    One way or another, I believe that the next actor will usher in and entirely new incarnation of the character and will begin with a clean slate.
    I agree with you that the current direct continuity timeline has boxed them in. Looking back on it, I'd say it's one of the most asinine decisions taken by the producers. The appeal of the older films (which enables them to be viewed over and over again) is the fact that James Bond is essentially timeless. Apart from the fashions and technology changing around the films along with a few other tweaks, the character was essentially the same and the continuity was quite 'loose'. The approach they've taken recently just makes him like any other 'time constrained' hero, necessitating a reboot every time the role is recast. In a way, that's probably why they're hanging onto Craig too - because they've locked themselves in creatively and will need to reset in a more dramatic way after he's out.

    This direct continuity thing was a fashion driven change that wasn't necessary in my humble view. Just because everyone else does this sort of thing, it doesn't mean that Bond has to.

    I hope they realize this and at least attempt to revert back to a 'no continuity' narrative with his last film, to set the stage for a return to form after he's out.
    The films will change in tone with the next actor, and the next era will be a soft-reboot, but will they revert to a 'no continuity' narrative? At least, no more continuity-driven than the Connery era?

    I hope so, but I have my doubts.
    It's the best way to retain timelessness, which is what I personally feel they should be striving for with Bond. Also, it allows far more flexibility within an actor's tenure, because if a particular film flops or isn't critically appreciated, they can more readily change course and tone with the next one without being forced into dilly dallying and letting the passage of time make viewers forget it.

    I agree though that it's unlikely given their recent modus operandi, but one can hope. I just think that the lack of an overarching narrative and continuity helps for posterity. After all, it's not like they're making films that are being held up as benchmarks here (at least imho). If they were, then it perhaps would be a different situation.
    I agree. And at any rate, if any of the Craig films are considered to be benchmarks (CR and SF are the obvious candidates), that's not because of continuity.

    If they do keep up the continuity approach, at least we can hope they've learned from their mistakes.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited January 2018 Posts: 7,981
    This somewhat reopen the debate as to timelines and re-boots. I agree that retuning to stand alone stories which may have a slight connective thread, similar to what MI is doing, is the way to go; it is far less constricting.
    But Bond is always supposed to be current; throughout the series real world events and people are referenced that in effect timestamp the film. While there are inconsistencies and contradictions, I see that there have been 3 separate incarnations of Bond, within which stand alone stories were told. I base my view on the ages of the actors.

    1. Connery and Moore are the same Bond; the Bond in Dr No is the same Bond as AVTAK.
    2. Dalton and Brosnan are the same Bond; the Bond in Living Daylights is the same as
    Die Another Day.
    3. Craig

    When the next Bond is introduced an new incarnation begins.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 19,339
    OK,controversial ,but does anyone think Brian De Palma has a Bond film in him,at 77 years old ?
    His films are so beautifully shot.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    OK,controversial ,but does anyone think Brian De Palma has a Bond film in him,at 77 years old ?
    His films are so beautifully shot.
    Just judging from the excellent MI, yes most definitely. In fact, I'd say that the original MI (with its artsy approach, emotional elements and retro re-imagining of bad guy) was very much a forerunner of the Craig era. It was a film ahead. So De Palma certainly has the chops for this genre.
  • Posts: 6,740
    A De Palma Bond would be a dream come true.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It just came to me,why the hell has Brian De Palma not been approached ?
  • Posts: 4,600
    One thing De Palma can do very well is build up tension. This is something that's been lacking in Bond recently. At the very least it would be great to have a director who appreciated De Palma's work. It does not surprise me that Tarantino is a big fan.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Tarantino certainly knows how to dial up the tension. That's for sure. He's great with dialogue too.
  • Posts: 4,600
    The trouble is that cinema has followed culture re the desire for action and scenes where people talk etc are labelled as slow. If you look at the staircase scene in The Untoucables, it's classic film making IMHO but could a newer generation of movie fans take such a slow build up? They would be checking their texts or heading out for more popcorn. In fact, it does not take too much imagination to have a similar scene in Bond as it's Cosner's basic inner decency and galantry that forces him to help the mother. He finds it impossible not to help. Qualities that we see in Bond (and we like to see in ourselves). I need to re-watch this movie.



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That is certainly a classic scene. It makes me want to view that film again soon too.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Looks like my De Palma suggestion has gone down better than i thought.
  • Posts: 4,600
    When you see this, it makes you realise that there is still so much potential within the Bond series. It just needs a really bold choice re writers and directors. Scenes like this tell us so much about Costner's character whilst giving a great action scene. We dont need dialogue and backstory re his character. We can see his inner values via his actions. If we do want to explore the inner Bond, it can be done though action and the choices he makes: not stupid family backstories.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    When you see this, it makes you realise that there is still so much potential within the Bond series. It just needs a really bold choice re writers and directors. Scenes like this tell us so much about Costner's character whilst giving a great action scene. We dont need dialogue and backstory re his character. We can see his inner values via his actions. If we do want to explore the inner Bond, it can be done though action and the choices he makes: not stupid family backstories.
    I fully agree. That's what they used to do in the past anyway imho. I learned about Bond from the old films without the need for elaborate peelback narratives and dressing downs (something which began infamously with Dench's arrival). One can tell about a man's character from the way he behaves in certain scenarios over a number of films. I find that far more interesting than being beaten over the head with his flaws constantly.

    What the film makers perhaps don't realize is that the constant nagging in some respects diminishes the character. I've said it before and I'll repeat it now: to some extent I think they're ashamed of their past and are trying to forget it. That's the impression they give me sometimes anyway.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    patb wrote: »
    The trouble is that cinema has followed culture re the desire for action and scenes where people talk etc are labelled as slow. If you look at the staircase scene in The Untoucables, it's classic film making IMHO but could a newer generation of movie fans take such a slow build up? They would be checking their texts or heading out for more popcorn. In fact, it does not take too much imagination to have a similar scene in Bond as it's Cosner's basic inner decency and galantry that forces him to help the mother. He finds it impossible not to help. Qualities that we see in Bond (and we like to see in ourselves). I need to re-watch this movie.



    Done first in Russia1925
  • Posts: 6,740
    I must say with De Palma's name brought up, I'm less resistant to the idea of big-time directors helming Bond films. But if they're going to pursue them, then they should definitely hire those that are veterans in the thriller genre. Like De Palma. What an inventive guy. Look at this:



    Bond doesn't need that sort of flashy thing, but a filmmaker that can come up with that is certainly not to be dismissed.

    Mission-Impossible-1996-Rolf-Saxon-Tom-Cruise.png

    Wonderful shot. There's another memorable shot in Mission: Impossible --one of many-- in which Henry Czerny and Dale Dye are facing each other in the extreme foreground, with Rolf Saxon standing between them in the background as they talk about how they're going to send him far away. Also, the film makes great use of Dutch angles.

    I also love that zoom shot of Andy Garcia in that scene from The Untouchables.

    The guy knows his stuff. Credit must also go to his cinematographers, of course.

    But that's just shots. De Palma knows how to build suspense.

    Anyway, I'm getting on the phone now to try and reach the man.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Do that,and tell him it was my idea !!!!
  • Posts: 6,740
    Will do, my friend.
  • Posts: 4,600
    Thing is, where is the new/next De Palmer? Where is the next generation of directors who can take their time and build up the tension. The Greengrass generation is all very well but there is so much more than can be done.

    Having said that, DV did a great job with the tension in Sicario.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,490
    patb wrote: »
    Thing is, where is the new/next De Palmer? Where is the next generation of directors who can take their time and build up the tension. The Greengrass generation is all very well but there is so much more than can be done.

    Having said that, DV did a great job with the tension in Sicario.

    Villeneuve is an expert in building tension. Just watch Prisoners.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Nolan does it well. Villeneuve as mentioned (only in Sicario and Prisoners though). Alfonso Cuaron (Gravity) and of course Guillermo del Toro, Scorsese, Spielberg and Tarantino.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,490
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nolan does it well. Villeneuve as mentioned (only in Sicario and Prisoners though). Alfonso Cuaron (Gravity) and of course Guillermo del Toro, Scorsese, Spielberg and Tarantino.

    I always feel like I'm in a surprising minority that loved Gravity. After that breathtaking opening is done with and the shit hits the fan, that film enters tension overdrive. Great stuff. His film Children of Men is quite tension-filled, as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nolan does it well. Villeneuve as mentioned (only in Sicario and Prisoners though). Alfonso Cuaron (Gravity) and of course Guillermo del Toro, Scorsese, Spielberg and Tarantino.

    I always feel like I'm in a surprising minority that loved Gravity. After that breathtaking opening is done with and the shit hits the fan, that film enters tension overdrive. Great stuff. His film Children of Men is quite tension-filled, as well.
    I've yet to see that. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to check it out soon.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,490
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nolan does it well. Villeneuve as mentioned (only in Sicario and Prisoners though). Alfonso Cuaron (Gravity) and of course Guillermo del Toro, Scorsese, Spielberg and Tarantino.

    I always feel like I'm in a surprising minority that loved Gravity. After that breathtaking opening is done with and the shit hits the fan, that film enters tension overdrive. Great stuff. His film Children of Men is quite tension-filled, as well.
    I've yet to see that. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to check it out soon.

    You're in for something really special and impressive. Hope you enjoy it!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nolan does it well. Villeneuve as mentioned (only in Sicario and Prisoners though). Alfonso Cuaron (Gravity) and of course Guillermo del Toro, Scorsese, Spielberg and Tarantino.

    I always feel like I'm in a surprising minority that loved Gravity. After that breathtaking opening is done with and the shit hits the fan, that film enters tension overdrive. Great stuff. His film Children of Men is quite tension-filled, as well.
    I've yet to see that. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to check it out soon.

    You're in for something really special and impressive. Hope you enjoy it!

    Clive Owen's best performance for me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 2018 Posts: 7,526
    One of my favourite movies. I think it has a place at the table in the “best films of all time” discussion :P
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 12,837
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    When you see this, it makes you realise that there is still so much potential within the Bond series. It just needs a really bold choice re writers and directors. Scenes like this tell us so much about Costner's character whilst giving a great action scene. We dont need dialogue and backstory re his character. We can see his inner values via his actions. If we do want to explore the inner Bond, it can be done though action and the choices he makes: not stupid family backstories.
    I fully agree. That's what they used to do in the past anyway imho. I learned about Bond from the old films without the need for elaborate peelback narratives and dressing downs (something which began infamously with Dench's arrival). One can tell about a man's character from the way he behaves in certain scenarios over a number of films. I find that far more interesting than being beaten over the head with his flaws constantly.

    What the film makers perhaps don't realize is that the constant nagging in some respects diminishes the character. I've said it before and I'll repeat it now: to some extent I think they're ashamed of their past and are trying to forget it. That's the impression they give me sometimes anyway.

    I think GE struck a good balance with the introspective stuff. Like with the Dench scene you mentioned, they didn't overdo it, it was just the two of them sussing eachother out and by the end of the scene, they got eachother. Same with the scene at the beach. A bit heavyhanded but it's just a little moment to show Natalya getting to grips with who he is, something which paid off later on when she returns the "go ahead, kill her/him" line. Some of Alec's lines were a bit much imo. I really liked how he used his knowledge of Bond to put him down (like when he describes his funeral as pretty much exactly how it would be) but the "vodka martinis to silence the screams of all the men you've killed" line is very clunky imo.

    On the whole though I think GE did that stuff well and didn't get bogged down in it the same way the first three Craig movies did (really not a fan of the Craig/Dench dynamic). I thought SP was a lot better with that side of things, I felt it was more subtle and GE esque.
  • Posts: 386
    De Palma?

    I would have enthusiasms...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Oh I think De Palma would be terrific!
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Hmmm, I’m going to say no because I’m not a fan of his work with the first mission impossible. Scarface is good but doesn’t scream Bond
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The American embassy in Prague definitely screamed Bond in Mission: Impossible. Its haunting atmosphere (all the fogs, the suspense and the huntdown) would compliment a Bond film like none other.
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