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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 568
    What are the chances we get some concrete news on the date of US release for Bond25 this week?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    But there is a thread of its own for QOS vs SF debates.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    What are the chances we get some concrete news on the date of US release for Bond25 this week?
    The US release has already been announced. Nov 8, 2019.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    But there is a thread of its own for QOS vs SF debates.
    This one, silly.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2017 Posts: 23,883
    All these passionate debates and discussions here seem to suggest that folks want a marked change from what we've gotten in the past two films. Many are placing the blame on Mendes for this, even though the last two films made big box office. The issue, as I see it, is even without Mendes at the helm certain dynamics have been established now. It's going to be quite difficult to go back to the QoS days, and I don't think EON want to do that anyway, given that film didn't perform as well (critically or financially) as they hoped.

    They seem to have embraced the Bond as superhero mantra rather than Bond as trained MI6 assassin, perhaps to feed off the current obsession with Marvel/DC.

    I personally think these guys need to completely shake this thing up. I still hold out a glimmer of hope that they do.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2017 Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.
    Fair enough and that's true. My point is more that they're attempting to ride the superhero wave by playing up his patriotism and heroic qualities, while ditching some of his less palatable and also more refined characteristics. I expect this to continue as they chase the common denominator box office. Not a fan of it personally, but it is what it is.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.
    Fair enough and that's true. My point is more that they're attempting to ride the superhero wave by playing up his patriotism and heroic qualities, while ditching some of his less palatable and also more refined characteristics. I expect this to continue as they chase the common denominator box office. Not a fan of it personally, but it is what it is.
    I personally prefer myself a rather patriotic Bond, like how he was throughout the Roger Moore era, even though in the novels he was the exact opposite and was just in it for the thrill of the chase.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.
    Fair enough and that's true. My point is more that they're attempting to ride the superhero wave by playing up his patriotism and heroic qualities, while ditching some of his less palatable and also more refined characteristics. I expect this to continue as they chase the common denominator box office. Not a fan of it personally, but it is what it is.
    I personally prefer myself a rather patriotic Bond, like how he was throughout the Roger Moore era, even though in the novels he was the exact opposite and was just in it for the thrill of the chase.
    I'm just done with the current iteration and everything around him. I'll have to ride it out until 2022 or whenever. Long wait.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.
    Fair enough and that's true. My point is more that they're attempting to ride the superhero wave by playing up his patriotism and heroic qualities, while ditching some of his less palatable and also more refined characteristics. I expect this to continue as they chase the common denominator box office. Not a fan of it personally, but it is what it is.
    I personally prefer myself a rather patriotic Bond, like how he was throughout the Roger Moore era, even though in the novels he was the exact opposite and was just in it for the thrill of the chase.
    I'm just done with the current iteration and everything around him. I'll have to ride it out until 2022 or whenever. Long wait.
    That makes two of us, there.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    I hope you guys realize that you are on the brink of being reprimanded by Gustav Graves.
    You have been warned.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    I hope you guys realize that you are on the brink of being reprimanded by Gustav Graves.
    You have been warned.
    Let's see if the pastors at the temple of Plot-twistery particularly practicing the Religion of Mighty Zod Mendes will obliterate us. ;)

    Or as my friend calls them, "thought police".
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 568
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    What are the chances we get some concrete news on the date of US release for Bond25 this week?
    The US release has already been announced. Nov 8, 2019.

    Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know the Release date is set for November 8th. Do you think we will get news on that date this year?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    What are the chances we get some concrete news on the date of US release for Bond25 this week?
    The US release has already been announced. Nov 8, 2019.

    Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know the Release date is set for November 8th. Do you think we will get news on that date this year?
    I honestly have no clue. It really will depend on the distribution deal. If I was a guessing man, I would say no. I am more inclined to thing we won't get news until next spring (just a hunch).
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Has anyone seen “The Love Witch”?
    It was released in 2016. It’s kind of a bad comedy horror film but it was made entirely to look like a 1960s film. It’s honestly amazing... Makes me believe they could really make a 1960s Bond film. The costumes, music, acting, cinematography is incredible considering it’s low budget but wow it really looks like a 60’s film...

  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,756
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.

    Bond is basically an international makeshift undercover police man.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Bond isn’t a spy anymore he’s just an assassin. Kinda sucks.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    @echo What on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously insinuating that without Mendes, Moneypenny and Q would not have appeared again sooner or later? As for gadgets, Bond hardly relied on gadgets in Skyfall.

    Ay I spent time making a list of plot holes, what do you have to say?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    dominicgreene wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.

    Bond is basically an international makeshift undercover police man.
    That's as close as it gets with the cinematic Bond in description. Accurately put, @dominicgreene.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    dominicgreene wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.

    Bond is basically an international makeshift undercover police man.
    That's as close as it gets with the cinematic Bond in description. Accurately put, @dominicgreene.

    Thanks, @ClarkDevlin. Is it any different in the books? Needless to say Bond shouldn't be an assassin. However the amount of people he let die in SF & SP... sketchy morals.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    dominicgreene wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    dominicgreene wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    That's true and all but... Bond is not an assassin, just so to speak. He has a license to kill, sure, but he also investigates or even goes to a formality as a representative of either his government or the MI-6 (an example is in Moonraker when he meets Drax for the first time). An assassin is just a triggerman/woman.

    Bond is basically an international makeshift undercover police man.
    That's as close as it gets with the cinematic Bond in description. Accurately put, @dominicgreene.

    Thanks, @ClarkDevlin. Is it any different in the books? Needless to say Bond shouldn't be an assassin. However the amount of people he let die in SF & SP... sketchy morals.
    Not too different. Bond is more like a hard-boiled PI-like problem solver with a license to kill for the British Intelligence in the books. He killed, but hated doing it, yet didn't hesitate when he had to. The Living Daylights short story is a prime example.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,059
    It's not all he does, but assassin is an important item on OO7's resume. And witness "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Living Daylights", as mentioned. It's how he earns double-oh status.
    In discussion I've heard it proposed Bond is not a secret agent (though it's the title of Chapter 1 in Casino Royale), Bond is not a detective (he regularly does that kind of work), even Bond is not a spy (though he's advertised as Ian Fleming's Master Spy and often called a spy). He's all those things, and an assassin when called on.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    It's not all he does, but assassin is an important item on OO7's resume. And witness "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Living Daylights", as mentioned. It's how he earns double-oh status.
    In discussion I've heard it proposed Bond is not a secret agent (though it's the title of Chapter 1 in Casino Royale), Bond is not a detective (he regularly does that kind of work), even Bond is not a spy (though he's advertised as Ian Fleming's Master Spy and often called a spy). He's all those things, and an assassin when called on.
    Exactly, which is why Bond is some sort of an enforcer for the British government.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,985
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    It's not all he does, but assassin is an important item on OO7's resume. And witness "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Living Daylights", as mentioned. It's how he earns double-oh status.
    In discussion I've heard it proposed Bond is not a secret agent (though it's the title of Chapter 1 in Casino Royale), Bond is not a detective (he regularly does that kind of work), even Bond is not a spy (though he's advertised as Ian Fleming's Master Spy and often called a spy). He's all those things, and an assassin when called on.
    Exactly, which is why Bond is some sort of an enforcer for the British government.

    He's a double-o programmer.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    It's not all he does, but assassin is an important item on OO7's resume . And witness "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Living Daylights", as mentioned. It's how he earns double-oh status.
    In discussion I've heard it proposed Bond is not a secret agent (though it's the title of Chapter 1 in Casino Royale), Bond is not a detective (he regularly does that kind of work), even Bond is not a spy (though he's advertised as Ian Fleming's Master Spy and often called a spy). He's all those things, and an assassin when called on.

    FYEO is off the books as a favour to M so TLD and TMWTGG are the only times in Fleming when he is officially sent to kill someone as the object of the mission.

    The two kills to get his 00 are only alluded to obliquely in CR and there is no real evidence outside of Pearson to suggest these were direct assassinations any more than they were missions in which it became necessary to kill.

    Bond is someone who investigates for the government to protect British interests who is sanctioned to kill if it becomes necessary in the course of said investigation not someone who is regularly sent out with the objective of killing someone. That's an important distinction to make

    It can occasionlly be his task to assassinate people but it's only a very small part of his overall role.

    This is another criticism I have of SP and the misunderstanding of the character by P&W and, at the risk of being on the receiving end of more of Gustav's histrionics, Mendes. It's mentioned numerous times that he is just an assassin as if that is the be all and end all of his job.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,826
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    It's not all he does, but assassin is an important item on OO7's resume . And witness "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Living Daylights", as mentioned. It's how he earns double-oh status.
    In discussion I've heard it proposed Bond is not a secret agent (though it's the title of Chapter 1 in Casino Royale), Bond is not a detective (he regularly does that kind of work), even Bond is not a spy (though he's advertised as Ian Fleming's Master Spy and often called a spy). He's all those things, and an assassin when called on.

    FYEO is off the books as a favour to M so TLD and TMWTGG are the only times in Fleming when he is officially sent to kill someone as the object of the mission.

    The two kills to get his 00 are only alluded to obliquely in CR and there is no real evidence outside of Pearson to suggest these were direct assassinations any more than they were missions in which it became necessary to kill.

    Bond is someone who investigates for the government to protect British interests who is sanctioned to kill if it becomes necessary in the course of said investigation not someone who is regularly sent out with the objective of killing someone. That's an important distinction to make

    It can occasionlly be his task to assassinate people but it's only a very small part of his overall role.

    This is another criticism I have of SP and the misunderstanding of the character by P&W and, at the risk of being on the receiving end of more of Gustav's histrionics, Mendes. It's mentioned numerous times that he is just an assassin as if that is the be all and end all of his job.

    Good Bond job description. I'd love to see Bond go back to investigating some situation for the British government.
    Seems Craig's Bond is so often sent to eliminate it becomes the expectation: "a clean kill or do you want to send a message?", "and terminate him, for Ronson", etc

    With all this time in between films, the writers could go back and easily re-read Fleming's entire Bond catalog to get a grasp on what 007 does for a living.

  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited November 2017 Posts: 832
    I'm just done with the current iteration and everything around him. I'll have to ride it out until 2022 or whenever. Long wait.

    This is the kind of attitude that I can't stand. It's completely unwarranted, we know little about the direction of the next film and less about its quality
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    I'm just done with the current iteration and everything around him. I'll have to ride it out until 2022 or whenever. Long wait.

    This is the kind of attitude that I can't stand. It's completely unwarranted, we know little about the direction of the next film and less about its quality
    Sorry to disappoint you. I've been a fan my whole life and look at things in cycles. This current iteration and cycle is finished as far as I'm concerned. They can stretch it out to one more film if they want to pad it until they get a more permanent business arrangement in place, but Craig isn't able to capture what I expect from a refined, sophisticated and mature Bond. He couldn't do it in SF and he certainly couldn't do it in SP. Fortunately the earlier film had a superb supporting cast (which elevated it) and a coherent Mendes vision (whatever one may think of the plot). Waiting another 2 years to see more of this is not something I'm looking forward to.

    Is it possible I will be impressed? Of course, I'm willing to keep an open mind about it, but the odds aren't good at this point if they continue with the transition, path and forced continuity narrative that his character has been on. They will have to revert to the edgier, darker Bond of almost 10 years ago with him in the saddle for me to be satisfied.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Cut away the emotional and personal baggage and I'll be happy. Bond can have drama but preferably not melodrama.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    Cut away the emotional and personal baggage and I'll be happy. Bond can have drama but preferably not melodrama.
    +1
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