No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2016 Posts: 5,921
    HASEROT wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006
    @Creasy47

    the face Silva makes after being knifed in the back by Bond - when he turns to look at him... the genius of it (yes i said "genius"), is that you are intended to laugh at it.. Look at how flamboyant and ridiculous his character is throughout the whole movie him turning around with a "seriously?!?!?!" expression/reaction is freaking hilarious - i laugh every time i watch it, because it's intended to be funny..

    Much like Goldfinger.
    Definitely not for the sake of radicalism and go exactly opposite direction of what the past couple of films represented. No. That'd feel forced. But, a lighter tone and a storytelling that the writers are comfortable with often results in good outcomes.

    I don't want a lighter Craig Bond. That felt forced in SP. Give him a final heavier Bond to close out the character in style (the novel YOLT's ending suits him). Let the next Bond be lighter.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    If they were to do an actual YOLT adaptation, Bond better not go rogue by sneaking off to find Blofeld.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 2,596
    If they were to do an actual YOLT adaptation, Bond better not go rogue by sneaking off to find Blofeld.

    Agreed on that. I'm absolutely sick of personal revenge stories. It's like they feel that they can't inject character development into Bond unless it's a personal revenge story.

    They're some shortsighted people on the Bond team unfortunately.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited September 2016 Posts: 15,423
    echo wrote: »
    Definitely not for the sake of radicalism and go exactly opposite direction of what the past couple of films represented. No. That'd feel forced. But, a lighter tone and a storytelling that the writers are comfortable with often results in good outcomes.

    I don't want a lighter Craig Bond. That felt forced in SP. Give him a final heavier Bond to close out the character in style (the novel YOLT's ending suits him). Let the next Bond be lighter.
    Well, I can't say I agree. They could tackle the story in many ways instead of going YOLT and let the character's arc end tragically. Some here are very fond of the idea, and I definitely am not one of them. Heavy story? Naah. Give it a dark story that isn't related to Bond, but the story and the secondary characters itself. Let Bond be caught in a game of shadows and be merely the protagonist in a venture that doesn't speak about him. Just like Mad Max: Fury Road, it was all about Furiosa. Instead of Bond fighting a blast from his past, let him go for a cool and worthy adventure with a dark twist. In fact, in this story he'll understand that a civilian life does not really suit him, so in the third act he's already a reinstated MI-6 agent, and decides that he's more of a soldier and a civil servant to face the danger and keep the world safe rather than settle down and think about his love life. We've already had enough of them.

    Now, regarding the lighter tone that didn't work with Craig... The problem wasn't the lighter tone. It was the story that was written with confusion that didn't work. The Mexican PTS, a light tone itself, was the greatest short Bond movie I've seen in ten years.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Milovy wrote: »
    Fiennes talks sense. It's good to hear that someone working on the films realizes that all these navel-gazing questions about Bond's place in the world aren't necessarily fascinating. I thought the series had already explored this stuff in 1995. But then, I'm sure Mendes thought he was breaking new ground... This is a guy so far up his own ass, he thought a boat chase on the Thames had never been done before! Of course, we all know it has, and it's been done outside Bond, as well.

    Fiennes also vetoed M-as-traitor. Make him a producer! Or at least keep him on as M. He was fantastic in Skyfall and although I thought he was a bit cartoonish in Spectre, you can't deny that he has a clarity of intention as an actor. He knows what he wants and puts in the work. I think his M could easily become just as valuable an asset to the new films as Whishaw's Q has proven to be.

    Yep. Didn't Mendes even have the cheek to say he was responsible for casting RK as Tanner? Furthermore, going back to the boat Thames action, I'd take the boat chase in TWINE, complete with under water tie straightenening over what we got in SP. Seriously, EoN just need to find someone who can direct a thriller and great action as well as someone who can write a fascinating script. Like you said, everything Mendes tried to address in SF, Campbell did better in GE; and tge less said about SP the better. I pray that Mendes doesn't come back and that he takes Newman with him. Good riddance.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    Boat chase in twine and QoS are far superior to the SP boat chase. The Newman score doesn't help raise the excitement level at all.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Seth Green? Interesting choice to play Bond.
    LOL I pulled that out of the air trying to think of an inappropriate casting choice.

    For inspiration, you could just as well have checked out the Who could/ should be Bond thread.
  • Milovy wrote: »
    Fiennes talks sense.

    Hear hear. The man's admittedly still early on in his tenure as M, but I love what he does on-screen, and everything I hear from him off-screen seems wise. I'm really glad he was able to prevail over the "M as traitor" subplot, and hope EON continue to listen to him in the future . . .

  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    Anyone else of the opinion that under Mendes tenure the stories have become convoluted character wise? Can you imagine m as a traitor along with bond Blofeld brother aspect. What next Moneypenny really is Rosa klebb?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Fiennes talks sense. It's good to hear that someone working on the films realizes that all these navel-gazing questions about Bond's place in the world aren't necessarily fascinating. I thought the series had already explored this stuff in 1995. But then, I'm sure Mendes thought he was breaking new ground... This is a guy so far up his own ass, he thought a boat chase on the Thames had never been done before! Of course, we all know it has, and it's been done outside Bond, as well.

    Fiennes also vetoed M-as-traitor. Make him a producer! Or at least keep him on as M. He was fantastic in Skyfall and although I thought he was a bit cartoonish in Spectre, you can't deny that he has a clarity of intention as an actor. He knows what he wants and puts in the work. I think his M could easily become just as valuable an asset to the new films as Whishaw's Q has proven to be.

    Yep. Didn't Mendes even have the cheek to say he was responsible for casting RK as Tanner? Furthermore, going back to the boat Thames action, I'd take the boat chase in TWINE, complete with under water tie straightenening over what we got in SP. Seriously, EoN just need to find someone who can direct a thriller and great action as well as someone who can write a fascinating script. Like you said, everything Mendes tried to address in SF, Campbell did better in GE; and tge less said about SP the better. I pray that Mendes doesn't come back and that he takes Newman with him. Good riddance.

    Two excellent posts chaps.

    Here's an idea why not Fiennes as the next director?

    He certainly speaks more sense than anyone else involved with the production and if it wasn't for him saying digging his heels in they'd have gone with M as a traitor.
  • Posts: 5,767
    echo wrote: »
    I don't want a lighter Craig Bond. That felt forced in SP. Give him a final heavier Bond to close out the character in style (the novel YOLT's ending suits him). Let the next Bond be lighter.
    If it felt forced it had to do with the filmmakers not having a grip on the character IMO. When Brosnan was announced, I wasn´t the only one thinking, hey cool, Remongton Steele as Bond, but then we got a much more sinister Bond. If I look at Brosnan´s other films since Bond, especially when he plays in a more light and funny manner, Brosnan seems much more natural than he ever did as Bond. And funnily enough, with Craig it´s the same (although I wouldn´t say he seems unnatural as Bond). Layer Cake, which I think can be called at least one of Craig´s Bond auditions, while not showing a Bond-like character, shows at least the amount and range of emotion Craig presented in his Bond films, while still being much lighter in tone, and much more lively.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Layer Cake had tons of dark humour, and certainly wasn't a lighthearted flick.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Fiennes talks sense. It's good to hear that someone working on the films realizes that all these navel-gazing questions about Bond's place in the world aren't necessarily fascinating. I thought the series had already explored this stuff in 1995. But then, I'm sure Mendes thought he was breaking new ground... This is a guy so far up his own ass, he thought a boat chase on the Thames had never been done before! Of course, we all know it has, and it's been done outside Bond, as well.

    Fiennes also vetoed M-as-traitor. Make him a producer! Or at least keep him on as M. He was fantastic in Skyfall and although I thought he was a bit cartoonish in Spectre, you can't deny that he has a clarity of intention as an actor. He knows what he wants and puts in the work. I think his M could easily become just as valuable an asset to the new films as Whishaw's Q has proven to be.

    Yep. Didn't Mendes even have the cheek to say he was responsible for casting RK as Tanner? Furthermore, going back to the boat Thames action, I'd take the boat chase in TWINE, complete with under water tie straightenening over what we got in SP. Seriously, EoN just need to find someone who can direct a thriller and great action as well as someone who can write a fascinating script. Like you said, everything Mendes tried to address in SF, Campbell did better in GE; and tge less said about SP the better. I pray that Mendes doesn't come back and that he takes Newman with him. Good riddance.

    Two excellent posts chaps.

    Here's an idea why not Fiennes as the next director?

    He certainly speaks more sense than anyone else involved with the production and if it wasn't for him saying digging his heels in they'd have gone with M as a traitor.

    To be honest, while I am glad it wasn't M, I think that an established character being the traitor would have resonated more than C (Andrew Scott is a brilliant actor and I liked his scenes with M, "now we know what C stands for" is one of my favourite lines of the film, but everything about him screamed bad guy and as soon as they showed the attack on South Africa after they opposed Nine Eyes it was obvious).

    I'm one of the few who liked the idea of Tanner being the traitor. Obviously it's a big departure from Fleming but Kinnear's Tanner has hardly been the embodiment of that character anyway (nothing about him screams veteran or Bond's friend, essentially the only two things we learn about him in the novels). Plus, with how it seemed to be written, I think it fit what we've seen his character. He wasn't an evil character, he just sold out because with all the change going on he felt expendable (and he is, really, all he does is hang around with M and spout exposition) and when he was found out he felt guilty and killed himself rather than face what he'd done (and he's established as fairly cowardly or at least an every man pen pusher type in SF when he hides during the courtroom shoot out, so it would have fit). Basically I think it would have done wonders for an otherwise dull, pointless character.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,494
    Here's an idea why not Fiennes as the next director?

    He certainly speaks more sense than anyone else involved with the production and if it wasn't for him saying digging his heels in they'd have gone with M as a traitor.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Fiennes have a crack at directing. He's certainly not the most experienced directing, but 'Coriolanus' had a decent amount of action in it, far more than anything Mendes has ever done. And Fiennes has good comic timing, so he shouldn't have issues dealing with the lighter moments in the film, should they go in that direction. Not to mention, he's well respected among his peers, which can't be a bad thing.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    P+W must have some traitor fetish. Almost all of their Bond scripts featured one.
    If M or Tanner had been a traitor as well it would have been laughable. Does MI6 function at all in P+W's eyes?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    P+W must have some traitor fetish. Almost all of their Bond scripts featured one.
    If M or Tanner had been a traitor as well it would have been laughable. Does MI6 function at all in P+W's eyes?

    Funny you mention that, because wasn't Tanner a traitor in one of the scripts, either SF or SP?
  • I think one way to understand the Tanner role in the Craig era is that he's essentially been swapped with Moneypenny.

    In the novels, Tanner is Bond's best friend in the service. Really the only thing we hear about Bond's social life, such as it is, is that he'll occasionally go golfing with Tanner and share war stories, or Tanner will warn him when M's in a bad mood or something.

    In the films, Tanner's now basically a office drone and Moneypenny's the one visiting Bond after hours, the one who's handy with a weapon, and the one who's the bridge between Bond and M.

    It's disappointing, I guess, that Tanner's now a somewhat wasted character, but then Moneypenny's got heaps more potential.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,686
    P&W also love Bond handling some kind of briefcase (PTS of TWINE, PTS of DAD, the climax of CR (although Bond is chasing someone who is carrying it) Haiti in QOS, the casino in SF).
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    P&W also love Bond handling some kind of briefcase (PTS of TWINE, PTS of DAD, the climax of CR (although Bond is chasing someone who is carrying it) Haiti in QOS, the casino in SF).
    The way Brosnan does it in DAD oozes cool.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Fiennes talks sense. It's good to hear that someone working on the films realizes that all these navel-gazing questions about Bond's place in the world aren't necessarily fascinating. I thought the series had already explored this stuff in 1995. But then, I'm sure Mendes thought he was breaking new ground... This is a guy so far up his own ass, he thought a boat chase on the Thames had never been done before! Of course, we all know it has, and it's been done outside Bond, as well.

    Fiennes also vetoed M-as-traitor. Make him a producer! Or at least keep him on as M. He was fantastic in Skyfall and although I thought he was a bit cartoonish in Spectre, you can't deny that he has a clarity of intention as an actor. He knows what he wants and puts in the work. I think his M could easily become just as valuable an asset to the new films as Whishaw's Q has proven to be.

    Yep. Didn't Mendes even have the cheek to say he was responsible for casting RK as Tanner? Furthermore, going back to the boat Thames action, I'd take the boat chase in TWINE, complete with under water tie straightenening over what we got in SP. Seriously, EoN just need to find someone who can direct a thriller and great action as well as someone who can write a fascinating script. Like you said, everything Mendes tried to address in SF, Campbell did better in GE; and tge less said about SP the better. I pray that Mendes doesn't come back and that he takes Newman with him. Good riddance.

    Two excellent posts chaps.

    Here's an idea why not Fiennes as the next director?

    He certainly speaks more sense than anyone else involved with the production and if it wasn't for him saying digging his heels in they'd have gone with M as a traitor.

    To be honest, while I am glad it wasn't M, I think that an established character being the traitor would have resonated more than C (Andrew Scott is a brilliant actor and I liked his scenes with M, "now we know what C stands for" is one of my favourite lines of the film, but everything about him screamed bad guy and as soon as they showed the attack on South Africa after they opposed Nine Eyes it was obvious).

    I'm one of the few who liked the idea of Tanner being the traitor. Obviously it's a big departure from Fleming but Kinnear's Tanner has hardly been the embodiment of that character anyway (nothing about him screams veteran or Bond's friend, essentially the only two things we learn about him in the novels). Plus, with how it seemed to be written, I think it fit what we've seen his character. He wasn't an evil character, he just sold out because with all the change going on he felt expendable (and he is, really, all he does is hang around with M and spout exposition) and when he was found out he felt guilty and killed himself rather than face what he'd done (and he's established as fairly cowardly or at least an every man pen pusher type in SF when he hides during the courtroom shoot out, so it would have fit). Basically I think it would have done wonders for an otherwise dull, pointless character.

    Obviously my Tanner tolerance levels are well known but perhaps this wouldn't have been so bad, if only because C is so blatantly the villain.

    Have Scott play things exactly the same so that we all think he's the villain and then at the end Tanner is revealed as the mole.

    You could either have a scene where C tells him that they need to streamline and cut away some of the flab, clearly meaning Tanner is for the chop but better still, if Rory has the acting chops to deliver it (which, personally, I doubt), during the scene where Tanner reveals himself he does the 'It was me, it's always been me' speech (minus 'the author of all your pain' stuff).

    'I've been leaking info to SPECTRE for years. It was me who told them about Ronson, me who helped Silva with the bomb and to escape, me who fed them the Nine Eyes info and smart blood files. Why do you think I stood by when M was about to be killed by Silva? When you're you're just blend into the background you're invisible.

    And it was me that recruited Vesper James.'

    Finally it would all make sense as to why we've had this bland nonentity of a character hanging round for so many films.

    Although I resent letting Rory go out in such a blaze of glory to be honest.
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Here's an idea why not Fiennes as the next director?

    He certainly speaks more sense than anyone else involved with the production and if it wasn't for him saying digging his heels in they'd have gone with M as a traitor.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Fiennes have a crack at directing. He's certainly not the most experienced directing, but 'Coriolanus' had a decent amount of action in it, far more than anything Mendes has ever done. And Fiennes has good comic timing, so he shouldn't have issues dealing with the lighter moments in the film, should they go in that direction. Not to mention, he's well respected among his peers, which can't be a bad thing.

    Absolutely. Like a great player stepping up to be player manager, I think he would instantly have the respect of the dressing room.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    P&W also love Bond handling some kind of briefcase (PTS of TWINE, PTS of DAD, the climax of CR (although Bond is chasing someone who is carrying it) Haiti in QOS, the casino in SF).
    The way Brosnan does it in DAD oozes cool.

    I'd say the same about the bankers office scene. That's probably Brosnan's finest hour as Bond, imo. Pretty much perfectly captures his take on the character in just a couple of minutes (basically Roger Moore but with a harder edge, lots of quips but underneath the surface is this brooding vulnerable assassin), Bond actually uses his wits to escape instead of just shooting or punching his way out, and the music is just perfect (I wish they'd use the Bond theme like that now). And Brosnan just comes across as so suave and sophisticated and enigmatic. I love it when he pushes the banker up and starts to count as well. The way he spits out "two" really makes you think he's prepared to blow the guys brains out. It's a great scene. Mysterious, full of danger and tension, it's a proper spy scene, and it ends with a great stunt/Bond moment. It'd make a fantastic PTS on it's own but then we get the boat chase too. I think it gets a lot of unfair criticism to be honest. Top ten for me, been one of my favourites since release. I always thought that this was a step back in the right direction after TND.

    I do realise that I've gone off on a long off topic rant but hey, we don't have any news (this thread is mostly used for discussing Spectre) so I don't see the harm in injecting some TWINE love into proceedings while we wait.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,418
    This place could do with a bit more TWINE love. So, bring it on!
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    It's official now. All Bond films sick now.

    Never!!! *shuttering at your sarcasm*

    Even my least favorite is still Bond. X_X
  • Posts: 5,767
    Layer Cake had tons of dark humour, and certainly wasn't a lighthearted flick.
    The film yes, but still Craig´s performance has somewhat lighter feel to it than his Bond performances.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited September 2016 Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Layer Cake had tons of dark humour, and certainly wasn't a lighthearted flick.
    The film yes, but still Craig´s performance has somewhat lighter feel to it than his Bond performances.
    That I agree with, yes. A normal everyday joe who just happens to be a drug dealer caught in a problem bigger than he could have handled.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Even though a parody, the music in this video at least gives the sequence an identity. :))

  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    P+W must have some traitor fetish. Almost all of their Bond scripts featured one.
    If M or Tanner had been a traitor as well it would have been laughable. Does MI6 function at all in P+W's eyes?

    Funny you mention that, because wasn't Tanner a traitor in one of the scripts, either SF or SP?

    SPECTRE. In that particular draft, Tanner ends up committing suicide while Bond watches.

  • Even though a parody, the music in this video at least gives the sequence an identity. :))


    The music is by Hoyt Curtin. He did the Jonny Quest scores in the 1960s.
  • I recently posted this list of potential Bond directors:

    - Martín Campbell
    - Steven Soderbergh
    - Ron Howard
    - Christopher Nolan
    - Paul Haggis (as director)
    - Guy Ritchie
    - Denis Villeneuve
    - Paul Greengrass
    - Anthony & Joe Russo
    - Jon Favreau
    - Kathryn Bigelow
    - Matthew Vaughn
    - Alfonso Cuarón

    One of those most likely will be the new Bond director. And today Guy Ritchie came out on top:
    http://ewn.co.za/2016/09/18/Guy-Ritchie-in-talks-to-direct-Bond-movie

    Obviously it's all rumours at this stage, but I do think Guy has a serious shot. I personally loved "The Man From UNCLE" as a Goldfinger-esque throwback to stylistic fun and pretty good action-driven, stunt-driven spy films. Not the Brosnan-style of films, but really a 'midas touch of Guy Hamilton' so to say.

    Now I know many people don't like the idea of Guy Ritchie helming a Bond film. His recent films weren't that succesful. But perhaps because of the lack of success Ritchie is being considered. So one doesn't have to high expectations beforehand. I actually love the idea. Also, like Daniel Craig, Guy is pretty much a down-to-earth guy. It could interest Craig to do a 5th and final film with the man.

    There are other logical considerations to this story. "The Man From UNCLE" was a Warner Brothers production, just like "Sherlock Holmes". And it could very well be that by bringing Ritchie onboard, also Warner will become the next Bond distributor. Then there's Daniel Pemberton as movie score composer, who might very well join the all British bandwagon.

    Any forummembers in here who love the idea of Guy Ritchie directing?

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Guy Ritchie - after UNCLE - A BIG FAT NO THANK YOU

    by the way, is it October 7th yet!...and if not, why and who is responsible...
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