No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • How does spectre not have a traditional ending? Sure he leaves mi6, but thats really the extreme of the usual situation, where bond says something along the lines of "lets stay undercover for a while" or whatever. Thematically maybe a bit further, but still a traditional ending scene really.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,092
    But Craig's era has been anything but typical. He deserves more and something different. This is a whole new era, with a reboot and all. See, I have this theory that most Bond watchers/followers/super fans like us have all been tricked by Craig's run. His first three films were so different from what came before we've all forgotten the typical Bond fare. SP came along and went back to the old ways, the Moore days of bombastic action and larger than life Bond super hero, and this is a bit shocking to most people simply because we've gotten more accustomed to the new way of doing things since 2006.

    So sure, SP does have a typical ending and that's the problem when juxtaposed against his earlier films.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,595
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think the cringe worthiness of the DAD & TWINE finales (with Dr. Jones & Jinx respectively) killed the traditional ending. Pity because I used to enjoy those.

    The TWINE ending feels like they were trying to do a TSWLM/MR type ending.
    Totally agree, but that's Roger Moore's area of expertise and only he could pull that kind of thing off without it appearing groan worthy, imho.

    Yeah Roger could have whipped his dick out and I still would have called the film classy. He just had that X-factor. God I love him. Will never understand the haters. He was James Bond (his own version). I don't ever feel like I'm watching someone play Bond when I watch a Moore film, which is a huge factor for me.

    Plus the Brozzer writers didn't have the deftness that even the Moore era writers had, so the DAD and TWINE endings come off like something that should have been in the Deadpool movie, not a Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,092
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think the cringe worthiness of the DAD & TWINE finales (with Dr. Jones & Jinx respectively) killed the traditional ending. Pity because I used to enjoy those.

    The TWINE ending feels like they were trying to do a TSWLM/MR type ending.
    Totally agree, but that's Roger Moore's area of expertise and only he could pull that kind of thing off without it appearing groan worthy, imho.

    Yeah Roger could have whipped his dick out and I still would have called the film classy. He just had that X-factor. God I love him. Will never understand the haters. He was James Bond (his own version). I don't ever feel like I'm watching someone play Bond when I watch a Moore film, which is a huge factor for me.

    Plus the Brozzer writers didn't have the deftness that even the Moore era writers had, so the DAD and TWINE endings come off like something that should have been in the Deadpool movie, not a Bond film.

    I certainly can't argue with this. When I do my Bond-A-Thon every year I always look forward to Moore's 7 films the most and am amazed at how great he is every time I watch them. Even if some of the films are uneven he is still THE MAN. He gets better each film as it goes along and damn, it's just such a great joy to watch him work. The hater simply don't get it. As much as I love Craig I can't see anyone ever eclipsing Moore as my favorite Bond actor.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    A Deadpool movie? That's bit of an overtly overreaction, isn't it?
  • Posts: 12,506
    Typical tabloid crap out again i see! Just because DC wants to work between Bond film instead of sitting on his ass? Means all of a sudden he has quit 007! Come lets get a grip and keep it real.
  • Posts: 94
    I wouldn't trust so much as a weather report in that overgrown 'comic' The Sun let alone an article concerning Bond. They will tell the readers any old crap if they think it might sell some more papers.It really is a complete and utter waste of paper and this is from someone who used to buy it every day but then had an epiphany.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think the cringe worthiness of the DAD & TWINE finales (with Dr. Jones & Jinx respectively) killed the traditional ending. Pity because I used to enjoy those.

    The TWINE ending feels like they were trying to do a TSWLM/MR type ending.
    Totally agree, but that's Roger Moore's area of expertise and only he could pull that kind of thing off without it appearing groan worthy, imho.

    Yeah Roger could have whipped his dick out and I still would have called the film classy. He just had that X-factor. God I love him. Will never understand the haters. He was James Bond (his own version). I don't ever feel like I'm watching someone play Bond when I watch a Moore film, which is a huge factor for me.

    Plus the Brozzer writers didn't have the deftness that even the Moore era writers had, so the DAD and TWINE endings come off like something that should have been in the Deadpool movie, not a Bond film.

    Roger was the comedic version of Bond. Nothing wrong with that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    When I was growing up over there, we used to try and get a copy of the Sun for page 3, and Sam Fox. That was the real attraction.
  • Posts: 94
    True, it did have couple of redeeming items on page 3, usually about a 36dd!!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2016 Posts: 28,694
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Bond doesn't do happy endings. Attempts at it fall flat,

    Er... Bond does save the world, defeats the good guy, stops the villain's evil plan, rescues the girl in virtually every Bond film. Kinda feels like a happy ending to me! Not sure you're correct there.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Bond doesn't do happy endings. Attempts at it fall flat,

    Er... Bond does save the world, defeats the good guy, stops the villain's evil plan, rescues the girl in virtually every Bond film. Kinda feels like a happy ending to me! Not sure you're correct there.

    Yeah I know what he's getting at, but I'd say there's a happy ending in about 20 of the 24 movies, at least. The romance of it is part of what I love about on-screen Bond.
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Bond doesn't do happy endings. Attempts at it fall flat,

    Er... Bond does save the world, defeats the good guy, stops the villain's evil plan, rescues the girl in virtually every Bond film. Kinda feels like a happy ending to me! Not sure you're correct there.

    Indeed. Hell, I'd even say that QoS' ending was somewhat happy, despite the film being the gloomiest in all of Bond.

    @fanbond123, @ThighsOfXenia, @Perilagu_Khan, here's my piece on all this:

    In my original post, I should have stressed that Dan's Bond doesn't do happy endings. Because we were all discussing his films and his films alone, I forgot that not being specific could lead to misinterpretation.

    You are all right in some ways; Bond has protected people, he has halted villains' plans and has gotten the girls, but all these rather predictable story beats have been flipped on their heads in the Craig era, which is beyond refreshing to me.

    The great thing about the Craig era and why I almost instantly hold them up above 90% of the other films by a landslide, is because they view Bond through a real world prism. Through this glass, nothing is simple, nothing is fair and nothing is ever, ever over.

    The classic Bond formula of old would have you believe that at the film's end Bond will find a way to beat the villain, save the day and bed the girl. This was largely how all the films played out until Craig's era arrived, save some shining moments in between where EON braved to be bold and bin tradition for an attempt at freshness.

    The Craig era, for me, has been this much needed freshness. Let's run through the films, shall we, to see how convention-breaking they are.

    A common theme that binds each film together is a sense of pyrrhic victory, an end result where the spoils aren't worth what's lost. In CR, while Bond is able to beat Le Chiffre and cut off his funds to Quantum, he slips up, gets captured and tortured. When White appears and kills Le Chiffre, all seems to be at rest, until we find out that all this time Bond has been played, just as Vesper herself is (unknowingly) being played. In the end, all Bond had hoped to be real, namely his fresh start with a woman he loved dearly, is crashed and burned. All the time and energy he spent to win the poker game was dashed because White and Quantum ended up with the money anyway. Though Vesper truly loved him, she can't bare to face him after her ruse, leading her to commit suicide before his very eyes, which is almost more tragic than how Fleming ended their relationship, now that I think about it. Bond ends the film with the then-unnamed Quantum victorious, with White and all his comrades still out there, with even more money in their pockets. His heart is steeled now, not budging for anyone. Hardly a happy ending, wouldn't you say?

    Fast forward to QoS, and Bond still hasn't achieved happiness. While Vesper spent the entire last film lying, now he's the one being duplicitous. Everyone that asks him about her gets blown off, and he tries not to show anyone the devastating effects her life and death have had on his mind. He steals a photo of her quickly, refuses to speak her name when he's asked what he calls the very drink he named after her on the plane with Mathis, and is forced to focus on the mission over his heart when Greene and Medrano pose a threat. Despite how Bond is one of the only people in the film not acting for his own interests, he's chased down by his own people, Quantum and the CIA, distrusted by everyone but M and Tanner, it seems. Along the way he loses a surrogate father figure in Mathis, who plants the idea of forgiveness in his head. He provides Camille an opportunity to get her revenge against Medrano, but in the car after the finale, he sees just how caustic and empty revenge is. She is completely unchanged, the only thing different about her being the blood on her hands. In that moment he realizes that all the killing in the world won't ever bring Vesper back to him. As the ending comes upon us, Bond is forced to look the scumbag who cheated and brought ruin to the woman he loved in the eyes, and refuses to act on the massive wave of anger and violence he wants to unleash upon him. While Bond now sees what Vesper did for him, he is still very much steeled. Though he forgives her, by throwing out her necklace he also for a time foregoes thoughts of a lasting love, possibly thinking it to be a total farce. As with CR, the film ends with Bond contemplating on the realization that White and Quantum are still out there, wreaking untold havoc in secret. All he can do is play the waiting game until the chance comes for them to enter his sights again, an opportunity that might never arrive. Again, not exactly sunshine and lollipops.

    In SF, we have perhaps the most pyrrhic ending yet. Everything in the movie leads up to the final confrontation between Bond and Silva, with M always caught in the crossfire. Silva stands firmly as the antithesis of all Bond is and all he stands for. He holds contempt for the empire and the realm, finds 007's traditionalist sensibilities laughable and his devotion to the fallen idol of M even more so. When they clash at Skyfall, it truly is a war of two vastly different worlds. Bond packs only his booby traps and his well-honed survival instincts, while Silva relies on a full troop of gun-toting soldiers, extensive weaponry and heavy firepower. While Bond has turned the game back in his favor by removing himself from the technological fabric Silva so likes to manipulate, the fight isn't easy. In the end, despite Bond's ability to kill the futuristic, new-breed Silva with one of the oldest weapons around, he still in the process loses a woman who had become like a mother to him. Here, the victory is more pyrrhic than ever. Bond has conquered Silva with his barren resources, proving his skill, but at what cost? His past stands in ruins, his mentor and greatest ally bleeds out in his arms, and the future of his occupation and life still hang in the balance. Though we get a nice shot of Bond receiving a missive from M in the form of her bulldog, urging him to keep on going, there's still a sense of loss and poignancy felt. M's legacy lives on in him, but as we see in SP, Bond's future and the futures of those like him are still put into question despite the valiant efforts he makes to prove their worth.

    Culminating in SP, Bond uncovers even more lies that he for so long thought to be truths. The battle to prove the 00 program's legitimacy rages on and again M is forced to rally against naysayers. While Mallory was one of the leading forces against Dench's M in SF's inquiry scene, now the roles are reversed and his arse is on the line. Throughout the film Bond finds out that a man he thought dead is still alive, uncovering the dastardly acts he perpetrated in the past and what he's doing in the present. He also comes face to face with the shattered image of White, now a literal and figurative pale king without a throne. White's attempts to reconnect with his daughter following his turn away from Quantum and SPECTRE are dashed when his death certificate is written by Blofeld, representing to Bond the kind of man he could become if he keeps on his path: weary, dying and alone. He seems to find a connection with Madeleine, because she can understand him, if only because her father was also an assassin. Their union is tested many times, however, because Swann isn't sure if Bond can or should move away from the only life he's ever known, while he begins to think more and more about a life after all the bullets and blood. Again, though the film ends with Blofeld in custody and Madeleine snug in Bond's passenger's seat, is it really over? The look on Blofeld's face, of disgust and violent vengeance is unmistakable, and you know right away that Bond's "happy ending" is going to be short lived, if you can even call it that in the first place. As Bond and Madeleine drive away, I don't think happily about their life together; the opposite, really. I wonder how long it'll take for a looming cloud overhead to again bring Bond's world crashing down. I wonder how long it'll take him to realize that he still can't outrun his past, and that nothing is ever truly finished. I wonder how long it'll take him to realize that comfortable matrimony doesn't fit his appetites for adventure and adrenaline.

    While CR, QoS, SF and SP's endings have hints of triumph in them, overall, when taken as a whole picture, they are tied together by a very pyrrhic set of victories Bond struggles to claim for himself. By most film's end one of the main villains is dead or incapacitated, but more often than not, even greater threats still remain that slipped through his fingers. The majority of the films finish with shots of him in contemplation, surviving, but not unscarred by the cards life has dealt him. The Craig era has given us endings that defy the happy go lucky sensibilities of old, thankfully and quite rightfully. This Bond shows us how impossible happy resolutions are, that good and bad don't really exist in a world painted gray, and that there's not much difference between winning and losing when both parties are left picking through the rubble of their lives as credits roll.


    Basically, that's why I think the way I do, and why I again see SP as a false resolution, a prelude to a far greater drama that stays true to the conclusions we've come to expect from this sterling era of Bond films.
  • This is all negotiation, or renegotiation, if you ask me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    This Bond shows us how impossible happy resolutions are, that good and bad don't really exist in a world painted gray, and that there's not much difference between winning and losing when both parties are left picking through the rubble of their lives as credits roll.
    After that I need a bunch of Martinis, shaken stirred or whatever...
    :-O
  • Posts: 6,601
    He should leave for his own good. He already managed to hurt his reputation but if he stays headlines like this will follow him everywhere:
    One more-for the money
    He wont escape that. Even sides like digital spy cant resist and that one is halfway decent. " We know, how much he loves being Bond"

    The next could be brilliant but they have set themselves up for more of the same, so rather not. So, get out while you still can.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    He should do one more, Finish off Blofeld/Spectre for good and cap off his run nicely then bring on Bond 7.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    He should leave for his own good. He already managed to hurt his reputation but if he stays headlines like this will follow him everywhere:
    One more-for the money
    He wont escape that. Even sides like digital spy cant resist and that one is halfway decent. " We know, how much he loves being Bond"

    The next could be brilliant but they have set themselves up for more of the same, so rather not. So, get out while you still can.

    Who cares what they think? People like these fools didn't stop him when they were teasing him for looking like a "blonde thug" after he took the role, he didn't throw in the towel when the writers' strike hit and put QoS in development hell, and he certainly didn't lay down and die when MGM went belly up and Bond 23 was put on major hold. Some comments from tabloid rags not fit to wipe his arse won't give him any reason to pause. His entire tenure has been marked by big challenges, and he's overcome every one to deliver consistently in the role both behind and in front of the camera in a way no other Bond actor has before. The great thing about Dan is that he doesn't care about all this gossipy garbage. He does what he wants, no matter what other people are saying behind his back.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Dan's not one to mess around with. :P
    SNN0833A--682_1341200a.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Love that Barrett M82! It's good being Bond, you get access to many things! :D
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Love that Barrett M82! It's good being Bond, you get access to many things! :D
    It helps that he was hanging out with radio host Anthony Cumia of the Opie and Anthony show when that was taken. :D

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    Love that Barrett M82! It's good being Bond, you get access to many things! :D
    It helps that he was hanging out with radio host Anthony Cumia of the Opie and Anthony show when that was taken. :D
    I'll see if I can schedule a meeting with the man. Lol! :))
  • Posts: 6,601
    But Brady, there is a point of no return and he can come very close and no " I dont give a damn" will save him then.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Typical tabloid crap out again i see! Just because DC wants to work between Bond film instead of sitting on his ass? Means all of a sudden he has quit 007! Come lets get a grip and keep it real.

    This, any Bond story sells newspapers and the bookmakers take in an influx of money. Corporate driven rubbish for profit!
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Hi, one of the 5 Aston Martins DB10's that survived production is up for auction in Glasgow with a guide price of £1.5M, I was fortunate that on a walk to work I turned the corner to see them offload it, the crew delivering the vehicle were very kind and allowed me to see inside of it and take some photos which I will put up later. It's even more beautiful in real life.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @SirHilaryBray, did the car you see have a removable roof?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,250
    Germanlady wrote: »
    He should leave for his own good. He already managed to hurt his reputation but if he stays headlines like this will follow him everywhere:
    One more-for the money
    He wont escape that. Even sides like digital spy cant resist and that one is halfway decent. " We know, how much he loves being Bond"

    The next could be brilliant but they have set themselves up for more of the same, so rather not. So, get out while you still can.

    Who cares what they think? People like these fools didn't stop him when they were teasing him for looking like a "blonde thug" after he took the role, he didn't throw in the towel when the writers' strike hit and put QoS in development hell, and he certainly didn't lay down and die when MGM went belly up and Bond 23 was put on major hold. Some comments from tabloid rags not fit to wipe his arse won't give him any reason to pause. His entire tenure has been marked by big challenges, and he's overcome every one to deliver consistently in the role both behind and in front of the camera in a way no other Bond actor has before. The great thing about Dan is that he doesn't care about all this gossipy garbage. He does what he wants, no matter what other people are saying behind his back.

    Absolutely agree with OBrady: no other actor has done so much for the role in front of, or behind, the camera. I re-watched SPECTRE and was astounded by the absolute command he has over the role. From CR straight through to this last effort, he has established a wonderful consistency and growth.

    I'd hate to be the next actor in line to take over the role (which I hope doesn't happen for another film or two. I've got all the time (in the world) for DC).
  • Posts: 1,092
    Hey, fantastic write up, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    I'll say it, given I am a heterosexual male who is comfortable with himself and his sexuality: I will shed a tear when DC officially leaves the role. To say I have a man crush on the guy might be overstating things...but not by much.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm always more excited than disappointed when there is a new actor cast. To me it means new directions and new possibilities.

    The fact that the debut Bond film from every actor to date has been an absolute cracker increases my enthusiasm and interest.

    DC has been great though, despite my misgivings about his latest. I will always look at his tenure as a positive one.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    TripAces wrote: »
    I'll say it, given I am a heterosexual male who is comfortable with himself and his sexuality: I will shed a tear when DC officially leaves the role. To say I have a man crush on the guy might be overstating things...but not by much.

    And I am right there with you, my friend.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 3,160
    Let's run through the films, shall we, to see how convention-breaking they are.
    (...)
    Nice run-through. Good read. You should analyze the first 20, too! ;-)
    I wonder how long it'll take for a looming cloud overhead to again bring Bond's world crashing down (again).
    (...)
    Pre title sequence, Bond 25!
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