Would you accept a black Bond?

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  • edited March 2014 Posts: 60
    I think it will come, whether to show Bond as a cultural institution, or as a character. If you see him as a character in the first place, then I suppose you do not like most movies. Most movies do not feature Fleming's creation. I counted about one and a half to do. And do not give me that crap about how Craig's Bond is Fleming Bond. Speaking of short people, which raises yet another concern: how black is too black? Bond movies have never been period pieces. I see no reason to start now. And I hope that our society can move around skin color in my life. There are more important aspects of Fleming's Bond focus on, many of which have yet to be captured on film. Casting lookalike is easy- its interest in the actual character is a real challenge. And I truly believe that Bond has the power to tackle solve racism - if it even exists anymore.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Pierce Brosnan said casting a black actor in the part in the future is absolutely essential. How on Earth is that "absolutely essential" ? Cast whoever nails the part, be it a Martian or whatever.Elba would definitely have been an improvement over Brosnan, but Craig is the better choice anyway. I think that ship sailed with the reboot. Making believe the next Bond is the same as the previous becomes a little bit harder if they go that route, sorry. Anything is possible, I guess.

    And @thelivingroyale , I suspect you are testing the waters because you really, really want to audition for the role yourself. Who can blame you for that? ;)
  • Posts: 1,548
    RC7 wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    if this ever happens I will give up my love for the frannchise.

    It's silly, needlessly provocative comments like this that make such conversations difficult to have. A sweeping statement without any justification or explanation as to 'why'. Perhaps you should have just kept the statement to yourself?

    Why should I keep it to myself?Ian Fleming wrote the character as a white character. I know lets reboot Shaft as a white guy! Doh

  • Posts: 1,548
    I cant wait to see Denzel Washington in the Equalizer but Bond has to stay white. Speaking of which I would love for Mr White to return!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I cant wait to see Denzel Washington in the Equalizer but Bond has to stay white.

    Best line on the thread. :))
  • Posts: 908
    And I truly believe that Bond has the power to tackle solve racism - if it even exists anymore.

    Lines like that are as far removed from reality as it gets. Do you guys really think you can change reality by simply ignoring it?
  • OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,715
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    You say that as if continuity somehow matters in these films...
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    Much like Shaft, however, LALD has that blaxploitation feel that came from 70s movies.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,572
    ChickenStu wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    You say that as if continuity somehow matters in these films...

    No, but casting the best person for the role does. All that bull a few years ago about Colin Salmon as Bond. His name was thrown in simply to stir controversy about having a back Bond, yet Salmon had the charisma of a winkle. No point casting a black actor just for the sake of having a black actor. Cast the best person for the role.

    Maybe one day he will be black. But only because someone comes along who knocks it out of the park.

    @ChickenStu, what are your thoughts on a disabled Bond? I ask because I have a disabled son, and I think they should get opportunities as well. Do you agree a disabled Bond would be a good idea....assuming the actor was a good one?

    Not being controversial here, simply seeing your take on equal opportunities and the fact these are only movies when all's said and done...

  • Posts: 12,837
    And @thelivingroyale , I suspect you are testing the waters because you really, really want to audition for the role yourself. Who can blame you for that? ;)

    Nah I'd be shit. I sound nothing like Bond and I've never really acted before :P
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,715
    ChickenStu wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    You say that as if continuity somehow matters in these films...

    Then your argument "The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white." has little value either.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422

    Nah I'd be shit. I sound nothing like Bond and I've never really acted before :P

    Neither did Lazenby........

  • My argument on the fact:

    When the literary Bond character is described, do you visualize him as being white? I'd venture to say most people would, so in that sense I'd argue Bond should be white. Also, literary Bond (and cinematic Bond, as seen in SF) is Swiss/Scottish (i.e. white)

    Counterpoint:

    Does that really matter? I don't think it really does. I'd be all for a black 007, but I feel like if it happened it would be because they felt like they should make him black. I think they should only get a black Bond if he's the best image of Bondiness available. About Idris Elba, he's too old. I think Chiwetel Ejiofor wouldn't be bad.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,924
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    And in Casino Royale, Vesper says...

    "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael ... [snip]"

    Is that enough proof that Bond is stated, rather than assumed to be a white man.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2014 Posts: 10,512
    I'd be all for a black 007, but I feel like if it happened it would be because they felt like they should make him black.

    Herein lies the difficulty. I don't personally imagine B&M would ever cast for political reasons. However, there will always be a section, an unfortunately large section, who will always claim it is tokenism, whatever the intentions may be. Look how many times it popped up during the MP discussions surrounding SF? You can't win. It's made worse by Oxbridge idiots like Danny Cohen at the BBC, introducing quotas. That does not help the under represented. It's a combination of recognising talent and having an audience that is willing to recognise it too. Not one waiting for the first opportunity to spout vitriol because something has changed and doesn't quite chime with their world view.

    I digress. Bond is White man, obviously. Will it always be that way? Time will tell.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2014 Posts: 17,932
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    And in Casino Royale, Vesper says...

    "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael ... [snip]"

    Is that enough proof that Bond is stated, rather than assumed to be a white man.

    To be honest, I don't think that there was ever any doubt that James Bond was a white man - it surely went unsaid for a thriller hero of the 1950s and early 1960s.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    And in Casino Royale, Vesper says...

    "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael ... [snip]"

    Is that enough proof that Bond is stated, rather than assumed to be a white man.

    To be honest, I don't think that there was ever any doubt that James Bond was a white man - it surely went unsaid for a thriller hero of the 1950s and early 1960s.

    Correct Dragonpol. I was starting to feel a little perplexed that people were trying to prove it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,932
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK. Let's put an end to this Shaft comparison. The lyrics to the Shaft tune explicitly say that he's The black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks

    The Bond tune never at any point says that he is white.

    Think about it.

    Fine, then think about LALD:

    "White face in Harlam. Good thinking, Bond."

    And in Casino Royale, Vesper says...

    "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael ... [snip]"

    Is that enough proof that Bond is stated, rather than assumed to be a white man.

    To be honest, I don't think that there was ever any doubt that James Bond was a white man - it surely went unsaid for a thriller hero of the 1950s and early 1960s.

    Correct Dragonpol. I was starting to feel a little perplexed that people were trying to prove it.

    Me too.
  • NicNac wrote:
    @ChickenStu, what are your thoughts on a disabled Bond? I ask because I have a disabled son, and I think they should get opportunities as well. Do you agree a disabled Bond would be a good idea....assuming the actor was a good one?

    Not being controversial here, simply seeing your take on equal opportunities and the fact these are only movies when all's said and done...

    What do you think I think?

    And why are we straying from the discussion?

    This thread is about whether we would accept a black guy in the part. Which yes, I would. If you seriously want to put that question out there, start a thread for it.

    That way, I can choose whether I want to answer it or not without feeling like someone is leading me down a dark path...

    For someone who isn't trying to be controversial, you sure can ask a loaded question NicNac.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,932
    The plot thickens...
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I personally don't think this should drift into Race vs. Disability territory. That is a very, very bad idea.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,932
    RC7 wrote:
    I personally don't think this should drift into Race vs. Disability territory. That is a very, very bad idea.

    Agreed on that. Let's stick to the subject in hand and not go off in dfirections that can only lead to offence being caused by one side or the other. This thread is about a black Bond, nothing else.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Ok, case study. Imagine a reboot Bond is casted for Casino Royale and it is :

    wentworth_miller.jpg

    Although born in the UK, he's American. He's openly gay but at CR time it wasn't known. His father is Black, but with a good lighting and photography you can make his skin look "white". Would you say, let's wait, pray and see, or would you launch millernotbond.com ?
    This could actually work in theory.Personally I don't like the choice, but that's just preference.
    Wentworth would be worthy of consideration. He did do a great job in Prison Break which had lots of spyfy danger elements. He could pass for Bond. Doesn't matter if he is gay, as long as he plays Bond straight. He pulled off straight quite well in Prison Break. And as for his look, with the right accent etc he could pull off Bond's upper-class British roots. He is an actor afterall, and he's white enough to pull off Fleming's very white Bond too.
    I would allow him to attend the auditions, as long as he is not too old, when the time comes.
    I want the next Bond to be cast young. 30-35 max. He does have the right hair colour, so we could save money on dye.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 23,715
    What keeps raising my curiosity is why some people seem to want a black Bond so badly. Have we run out of suitable Caucasian actors suddenly? I enjoy actors like Idris Elba to show up in a lot of films and I'm all for him showing up in a Bond film specifically. But surely we can still find a Caucasian as a good successor for Craig. Ultimately, that would be the least 'logic defying' choice, wouldn't it? Surely we can all agree that, whether a black Bond is acceptable or not, he'd be a slam in the face of 50+ years of cinematic Bond tradition.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DarthDimi wrote:
    What keeps raising my curiosity is why some people seem to want a black Bond so badly. Have we run out of suitable Caucasian actors suddenly? I enjoy actors like Idris Elba to show up in a lot of films and I'm all for him showing up in a Bond film specifically. But surely we can still find a Caucasian as a good successor for Craig. Ultimately, that would be the least 'logic defying' choice, wouldn't it? Surely we can all agree that, whether a black Bond is acceptable or not, he'd be a slam in the face of 50+ years of cinematic Bond tradition.

    I haven't seen anyone wanting it 'badly'. I've only seen suggesting for why it may or may not be feasible.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,336
    Well said @DarthDimi. =D>
  • Posts: 12,837
    DarthDimi wrote:
    What keeps raising my curiosity is why some people seem to want a black Bond so badly.

    I don't think anybody has said they really want one, just that we'd accept one.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    he'd be a slam in the face of 50+ years of cinematic Bond tradition.

    You could argue that Casino Royale was a slap in the face of 40 years of cinematic Bond "tradition" but most fans (myself included) think it's one of the best in the series. Change can be a good thing. A black actor could be cast and end up being the best Bond ever.
  • Posts: 14,892
    timmer wrote:
    Ok, case study. Imagine a reboot Bond is casted for Casino Royale and it is :

    wentworth_miller.jpg

    Although born in the UK, he's American. He's openly gay but at CR time it wasn't known. His father is Black, but with a good lighting and photography you can make his skin look "white". Would you say, let's wait, pray and see, or would you launch millernotbond.com ?
    This could actually work in theory.Personally I don't like the choice, but that's just preference.
    Wentworth would be worthy of consideration. He did do a great job in Prison Break which had lots of spyfy danger elements. He could pass for Bond. Doesn't matter if he is gay, as long as he plays Bond straight. He pulled off straight quite well in Prison Break. And as for his look, with the right accent etc he could pull off Bond's upper-class British roots. He is an actor afterall, and he's white enough to pull off Fleming's very white Bond too.
    I would allow him to attend the auditions, as long as he is not too old, when the time comes.
    I want the next Bond to be cast young. 30-35 max. He does have the right hair colour, so we could save money on dye.

    IMO, he has the right complexion, but that's about it. I enjoyed his role in Prison Break, but I can't picture this guy as Bond at all. But yes, a guy with a similar background, with a Black parent (or Asian, or whatever) but looking white could play Bond and it wouldn't even be a controversy. I agree about a gay actor being able to play Bond, but I am not sure if people would accept it. That said, the acting profession being in general and traditionally way more open about homosexuality than any other, I am surprised no homosexual has ever played Bond yet.
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