Would you accept a black Bond?

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Comments

  • Posts: 12,837
    If you´re a true fan, you would know that Bond is a white British man in his late fourties! End of story!

    Saying people who disagree with you aren't "true fans" is just plain stupid. And buying tons of Bond stuff doesn't give you any more credibility than @ChickenStu has.
    You are not a fan of Bond just beacause you own the DVD:s and the Blu-Ray´s.

    Actually you are. You're a Bond fan if you like James Bond.
    SaintMark wrote:
    and the general audience would not go to see it

    I'm struggling to see where you're getting this idea from. Like I said further up the page, if Idris Elba is one of the most popular choices for the next Bond actor then surely that means that most people would accept a black actor as Bond?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I'm struggling to see where you're getting this idea from.

    There's a place you can pull stuff from. Principled nitwits might call it an anus, others, an arse.

  • SaintMark wrote:
    Heck the Blond argument was tough enough without throwing in the colour of skin. ;)

    LOL!!! Yeah, that whole blonde thing was a bit silly wasn't it?

    Still - when you said earlier that people wouldn't go see a black guy in the part... if that's true, don't you find it a bit sad?

    Call me an idealist - I don't care. Skin colour means nothing to me. I find racism deplorable. I apologise to anyone I called racist - it's just subjects like this I'm sensitive about and my heart rules my head.

    I just want a world where every human being is equal - where we can all live together without hate and fear. God has no grand-children... we are ALL brothers and sisters.

    I grew up with a very racist Dad and older brother - and rather than turn out being like them I turned out exactly the opposite. Any man I meet is my friend and my brother. No matter what they look like.

    Don't mean to sound sappy or sentimental - it's just truly the way I feel.

    Just do me a favour. Remember that bit in Skyfall where Daniel Craig walks in firing the gun. Now imagine that was Idris Elba - wouldn't that still look equally badass cool?!?

    Imagine Idris Elba saying THE line (you know the one I mean...)

    Come on... are you seriously telling me you don't want to see that film?!?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    That bit with Bond walking into the gearing firing shots after he shit the fire extinguishers is one if the most naturally realised cool moments in the series. The way he just calmly swaggered his way in firing those shots was just too cool.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Frankly, a black 007 is nothing more than a hypothetical proposition- I highly doubt that it will ever occur. The fact of the matter is that, if a black 007 were to ever become a reality, it would only be so to "prove a point", like the election of Barack Obama. It was never about his competence as a leader- it was only about getting a black man into office. And those that elected him are now realizing the stupidity of their decision. Thus, I don't think a black 007 would be a great idea, because Bond is not black- it is that simple. Why ruin what has been a 50+ year franchise in the making by attempting to "shake things up"? I wouldn't accept it because it would be a foolish idea.
  • TubesTubes The Hebrew Hammer
    Posts: 158
    A black actor as Bond would reek of stunt casting and would probably distract from more important issues pertaining to the film, such as it's quality. We saw a small scale example of this with the nonsense surrounding Daniel Craig's casting.

    That being said, I'm not opposed to it. We've already made a clean break from previous continuity, however rough that was, with the "reboot" in Casino Royale. That opens Bond up to all sorts of casting flexibility, as we no longer need to maintain the illusion that the past 50 years of films all focused on one ageless guy.

    If a black 007 is going to happen, it's probably not going to be Elba. He's too old (41, which would make him in his mid-late 40's when Craig finishes up) and arguably too famous for the role. The eventual replacement is likely working smaller films or television right now and has yet to establish a marquee filmography. Of course, that's not going to stop tabloids from trotting out every major actor with or without a British accent as candidates.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    To ask this question, we must also ask whether Bond should be of Asian, Latin American or Eastern European origin. Or anything other than a white male, for that matter.

    As for my own personal view, I am torn. I would not be bothered if the next Bond was white, I would not be bothered if the next Bond was not white. I must admit, I do have my reservations, but if a non-white actor were to come along and give a sublime performance, I would back him 100%.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    In the end, the only thing - the only thing - that Bond casting should come down to is performance. If the actor can embody that presentation, be they black, white, Cherokee, Laotian, Atlantean, then the role has been cast correctly.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 7,653
    ChickenStu wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Heck the Blond argument was tough enough without throwing in the colour of skin. ;)

    LOL!!! Yeah, that whole blonde thing was a bit silly wasn't it?

    Still - when you said earlier that people wouldn't go see a black guy in the part... if that's true, don't you find it a bit sad?

    Call me an idealist - I don't care. Skin colour means nothing to me. I find racism deplorable. I apologise to anyone I called racist - it's just subjects like this I'm sensitive about and my heart rules my head.

    I just want a world where every human being is equal - where we can all live together without hate and fear. God has no grand-children... we are ALL brothers and sisters.

    I grew up with a very racist Dad and older brother - and rather than turn out being like them I turned out exactly the opposite. Any man I meet is my friend and my brother. No matter what they look like.

    Don't mean to sound sappy or sentimental - it's just truly the way I feel.

    Just do me a favour. Remember that bit in Skyfall where Daniel Craig walks in firing the gun. Now imagine that was Idris Elba - wouldn't that still look equally badass cool?!?

    Imagine Idris Elba saying THE line (you know the one I mean...)

    Come on... are you seriously telling me you don't want to see that film?!?


    I would not go and see Idris Elba as James Bond 007, and the man might be a cool character in Luther but I am sure that him being the next 007 would be franchise killer. The general perceived idea is a white Bond even by the colour folks themselves. Even Jackie Chan, very popular would not want to be 007.
    Luther as a baddie, now that would be far more impressive opposite Daniel Craig, I would not mind seeing that.

    I do not consider it bad if the various cultural backgrounds have their own popular characters. I do not want an Indian 007 either, he might start to dance and sing at any moment. Which would scare the living daylights out of me.

    And while I share equality for anybody and everybody I do not see the need that some aspects of culture should be given up for grabs because that would be equality. James Bond as a culteral character should stick to his roots, so that the puritans get their kicks and the Moore/Brosnan fans get theirs.

    And keep that Will Smith away from the franchise, he manages to destroy any cult-scifi novel with his ideas and imput.
  • Posts: 7,653
    In the end, the only thing - the only thing - that Bond casting should come down to is performance. If the actor can embody that presentation, be they black, white, Cherokee, Laotian, Atlantean, then the role has been cast correctly.

    I disagree fully. that is PC talking and I do not like that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Exactly how I feel, @Agent007391 - which is what I was going for in my answer on the first page of this thread. For me, the main thing is that Bond is a Brit. I would prefer the actor to be British; greatly prefer that. If not British but can do the proper accent, I reluctantly say okay. Because above all, I want a fine actor in the role and preferably one who has his own style/charm/wit, too. The performance is what matters. That is not PC. That is my honest opinion, folks. The externals do not carry a lot of weight with me. For me, I could definitely see Elba as Bond. A different actor of a different race - I would at least see the film and judge the finished result before writing it off. I love Bond, but I do not mind some things changing - this series indeed keeps changing.

    I respect that some others do feel differently. I don't feel any urge to bash people or call them racist, closed-minded, etc. People don't need to explain their opinion ten times if they have already stated it clearly. This is just a discussion and sharing of opinions.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,015
    Ok, case study. Imagine a reboot Bond is casted for Casino Royale and it is :

    wentworth_miller.jpg

    Although born in the UK, he's American. He's openly gay but at CR time it wasn't known. His father is Black, but with a good lighting and photography you can make his skin look "white". Would you say, let's wait, pray and see, or would you launch millernotbond.com ?

  • Posts: 14,943
    I'm struggling to see where you're getting this idea from. Like I said further up the page, if Idris Elba is one of the most popular choices for the next Bond actor then surely that means that most people would accept a black actor as Bond?

    No, it means that right now, in this hypothetical, borderline fantasist casting, people would accept this particular black actor as Bond. But they are not in this situation, and Idris Elba will almost certainly never be cast as Bond.

    People have accepted Jude Law as Bond, Collin Farrell as Bond, Goran Viscjnic or whatever his name was as Bond, Mel Gibson as Bond, I think they even accepted Robbie Williams as Bond too, according to similar polls. The most popular casting choice for Bond in an hypothetical scenario is always a celebrity, with a fanbase and the people answering the question answer it the same way they'd choose the winner of X Factor. I have seen fans of Tom Cruise, George Clooney and Russel Crowe mentioning them as potential James Bond. Such opinion polls have little to no bearing in reality, should they ever consider seriously a black actor as Bond in the future.
  • Posts: 14,943
    In the end, the only thing - the only thing - that Bond casting should come down to is performance. If the actor can embody that presentation, be they black, white, Cherokee, Laotian, Atlantean, then the role has been cast correctly.

    Actually no. Yes, it is essential that the next Bond actor is a good actor. But as I mentioned, however talented a fat or even a chubby actor is, he stands no chance to be Bond. Look and physique matter a lot when it comes to Bond. Someone too short would not make it either. And it is true of every single role: you need to look the part.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Ludovico wrote:
    No, it means that right now, in this hypothetical, borderline fantasist casting, people would accept this particular black actor as Bond. But they are not in this situation, and Idris Elba will almost certainly never be cast as Bond.

    So the majority would accept Idris Elba but no other black actor? What sense does that make?

    If somebody wants Idris Elba to be Bond then they clearly don't mind the next Bond actor being black. They might not like a particular black actor being cast but if they were championing Elba for the part then their issues with the actor aren't going to have anything to do with race.
    Ludovico wrote:
    however talented a fat or even a chubby actor is, he stands no chance to be Bond.

    But how is this similar? Making Bond fat isn't just changing his appearance. Like I said, a black Bond could still pull off the parkour in CR. A fat Bond couldn't.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    SaintMark wrote:
    In the end, the only thing - the only thing - that Bond casting should come down to is performance. If the actor can embody that presentation, be they black, white, Cherokee, Laotian, Atlantean, then the role has been cast correctly.

    I disagree fully. that is PC talking and I do not like that.

    That's not, in any way, PC talking. The only thing I care about is the performance. On the TSWLM DVD, there's the bonus feature "Inside The Spy Who Loved Me", has the stunt director (Bob Simmons, I think was his name; I haven't watched it in a while) describing how he could double for Richard Kiel, and he says something along the lines of "as long as the action's good, it could be a monkey dancing out in a top hat and spurs". (I'm paraphrasing from memory.)
  • Posts: 14,943
    I think I made very clear in my post that Idris Elba is right now seen as the best choice because he is very popular an actor, just like Jude Law, Rupert Everett, and the others. Everett was also high at some point in people's mind, even though he was gay. Had they cast him as Bond, you might not have had the same positive reaction. What I was saying is that such opinion polls show the personal popularity of an actor at a given time, nothing else. And that however inappropriate an actor could be as Bond, for whatever reason, he will still do well in polls. (And for the record, I am a fan of Idris Elba).

    Could Sean Connery circa DAF have pulled the parkour in CR? Could Adam West, who was considered (although I doubt seriously)? And conversely, even if Russel Crowe was getting a bit chubby, he would still be strong and with a good stamina, at least seemingly. Would he be suitable as Bond?
  • Posts: 2,400
    Ludovico wrote:
    I don't get why the line is drawn at skin colour though. Personality change is fine, hair colour change is fine but a black Bond is straying too far from the source material?

    I think in terms of staying faithful to Fleming, changing Bond's skin colour doesn't make much difference. If Daniel Craig was black would Die Another Day be closer to Fleming than Casino Royale?

    But the line is not only drawn at skin colour. I am not certain how a redhead Bond would be accepted (a gingerhead Bond with freskles, forget about it), but there are other things people would not accept: a fat or chubby Bond, a Bond that is too short, etc. I brought forward some actors here at future Bonds and thought they'd do fine... until I saw their height on IMDB. Not short, but not tall enough. And I thought: no, that would not do. And I am talking here about actors I suggested.

    You just made me picture Rupert Grint as Bond. I can't stop laughing.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    SaintMark wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Heck the Blond argument was tough enough without throwing in the colour of skin. ;)

    LOL!!! Yeah, that whole blonde thing was a bit silly wasn't it?

    Still - when you said earlier that people wouldn't go see a black guy in the part... if that's true, don't you find it a bit sad?

    Call me an idealist - I don't care. Skin colour means nothing to me. I find racism deplorable. I apologise to anyone I called racist - it's just subjects like this I'm sensitive about and my heart rules my head.

    I just want a world where every human being is equal - where we can all live together without hate and fear. God has no grand-children... we are ALL brothers and sisters.

    I grew up with a very racist Dad and older brother - and rather than turn out being like them I turned out exactly the opposite. Any man I meet is my friend and my brother. No matter what they look like.

    Don't mean to sound sappy or sentimental - it's just truly the way I feel.

    Just do me a favour. Remember that bit in Skyfall where Daniel Craig walks in firing the gun. Now imagine that was Idris Elba - wouldn't that still look equally badass cool?!?

    Imagine Idris Elba saying THE line (you know the one I mean...)

    Come on... are you seriously telling me you don't want to see that film?!?


    I would not go and see Idris Elba as James Bond 007, and the man might be a cool character in Luther but I am sure that him being the next 007 would be franchise killer. The general perceived idea is a white Bond even by the colour folks themselves. Even Jackie Chan, very popular would not want to be 007.
    Luther as a baddie, now that would be far more impressive opposite Daniel Craig, I would not mind seeing that.

    I do not consider it bad if the various cultural backgrounds have their own popular characters. I do not want an Indian 007 either, he might start to dance and sing at any moment. Which would scare the living daylights out of me.

    And while I share equality for anybody and everybody I do not see the need that some aspects of culture should be given up for grabs because that would be equality. James Bond as a culteral character should stick to his roots, so that the puritans get their kicks and the Moore/Brosnan fans get theirs.

    And keep that Will Smith away from the franchise, he manages to destroy any cult-scifi novel with his ideas and imput.

    Riiiiiight and yet, it's King Connery that is the only Bond that has done both.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ludovico wrote:
    No, it means that right now, in this hypothetical, borderline fantasist casting, people would accept this particular black actor as Bond. But they are not in this situation, and Idris Elba will almost certainly never be cast as Bond.

    So the majority would accept Idris Elba but no other black actor? What sense does that make?

    If somebody wants Idris Elba to be Bond then they clearly don't mind the next Bond actor being black. They might not like a particular black actor being cast but if they were championing Elba for the part then their issues with the actor aren't going to have anything to do with race.
    Ludovico wrote:
    however talented a fat or even a chubby actor is, he stands no chance to be Bond.

    But how is this similar? Making Bond fat isn't just changing his appearance. Like I said, a black Bond could still pull off the parkour in CR. A fat Bond couldn't.

    ...as evidenced by Foulcan.
  • Posts: 1,965
    TBH No I would not no offense.
  • Posts: 908
    Birdleson wrote:
    Roger Moore would have made a dynamite Shaft.

    Yes,but that is because he was a sexmachine to all the chicks!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    @DarthDimi Good post, I can see where you're coming from but I still don't think the white Shaft comparison works. Shaft is defined by his race, he's only ever been played by one actor and the character has never really changed. Bond's race doesn't really affect him in this day and age and they've already bastardised Fleming's character in the past, change is what has kept Bond going for so long. So I don't think that comparison works. It's a bit better than the more ridiculous ones like "what's next, a white guy playing a slave?!?!" but it still doesn't work imo. Neither does comparing it to a white Axel Foley. None of these comparisons work because there isn't a black equivalent to Bond.

    @Ludivico I think the difference is that a fat Bond just wouldn't make much sense. Bond is meant to be sex symbol for one thing, and he needs to be at least in reasonably good shape because his job demands it. Bond still could've done the free running in CR if he was black. He couldn't have done it if he was fat.

    @ChickenStu @RC7 @doubleoego Great posts.

    From 2 pages back, thelivingroyale talks about the Shaft comparison - I bolded part of his quote.

    Anyway, I don't mind either way, yet I respect that some people cannot buy into a non-white Bond, that it is too much of a change. We can disagree without rancor (though I don't know that some of us will...).

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote:
    So, would you accept a white Shaft?

    Many of us have addressed this point. It's the same line I see peddled every time this topic arises. It's the kind of thing an adolescent might say.
  • Posts: 908
    Birdleson wrote:
    So, would you accept a white Shaft?

    I? Never,ever! I'm already having a very hard time with the Samuel L.Jackson remake.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Birdleson wrote:
    So, would you accept a white Shaft?

    I? Never,ever! I'm already having a very hard time with the Samuel L.Jackson remake.

    That was a travesty on every level.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Birdleson wrote:
    So, would you accept a white Shaft?

    Many of us have addressed this point. It's the same line I see peddled every time this topic arises. It's the kind of thing an adolescent might say.
    That kind of jibe is uncalled for. I've taught adolescents for over 20 years and would be disappointed if they responded in that way.

    It's what I believe a riled up teenager might say. I've heard it far too many times. While I've no intention to insult you personally, many have said it, I'm Just calling it how I see it.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2014 Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote:
    ANother reason to leave a thread. Too much crap like that around here.

    There were plenty of responses to your question, it having been raised, as Drax might say, with a tedious inevitability. If you haven't read them you can look back over the thread.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 23,847
    Page six of another Black Bond ? thread and we're chin deep in name calling and personal gripes. Only yesterday (page 1) did I ask to keep things straight by flagging at the merest sign of a false note. A mere few hours ago did @MajorDSmythe mention that he'd be watching this place like a microbiologist with a microscope. Yet any compliance has floated light years away since then.

    The garbage bin has been cleaned out from previous filth collecting. This thread can go there at any point when the fit hits the shan.

    So please play nice, stay on topic, ignore provocative statements - even the personal ones, no; especially the personal ones - and flag like you've never flagged before. It so happens to be the only way this thread may live...

    (... most likely to die another day.)
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    I would not support it. The source material has basics ideals that should not be changed.
This discussion has been closed.