Would you accept a black Bond?

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  • Posts: 727
    p_diddy_photo_by_amilcar_hulton_arhcive_getty_51091856.jpg

    "Yo! My name is Bond, bitch."

    Howdy, the name's Jim.


    o-SOCKS-AND-SANDALS-facebook.jpg
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,661
    Here's a clip of Idris in Luther - the show that gave him him his big break. Watch the clip from 2:46 when Luther is walking down the street. What makes him stand out as a potential Bond?




    His voice? No, too gruff sounding.

    His accent? No - London East End type accent. Doesn't sound like Bond.

    His looks? Well, he looks like a reasonably good looking black man. If I walked past him in the street I wouldn't go "wow, he's really handsome." He is average good looking or not that good looking (depending on your view). The 'walk past him in the street' test is important. It's a great way to test someone's good looks. If you pass someone and you're struck by how good looking someone is, they've made an impression. Would Elba pass the 'walk past him in the street' test? In my opinion, no. It's all subjective, of course, but it's worth considering the 'walk past him in the street test' when considering all potential Bond actors. There is the counter-argument that Bond's looks are not that important. Fair enough. Not all fans agree with that view, though.

    Height - good height!

    Smoothness/refinement - nope, ain't seeing it. Elba is not a smooth/refined type. No big deal, we are what we are, but if you're promoting yourself as James Bond (and there is evidence to suggest Elba has done that!) then you're open to criticism if you don't meet some of the requirements.

    He's black! Bond is white. Okay, Bond can change if Eon and people desire it, but overall - what is so Bondian about this guy?

    I'm okay to admit he has a certain black man, cockney accent, confident detective presence on the show, but guess what, David Jason had a white man, cockney accent, confident entrepreneurial presence in Only Fools And Horses, but no-one ever suggested he should play Bond! Lovely jubbly! :P Are we all falling for a big con here? There is no black actor out there for James Bond because James Bond is meant to be a white, very good looking actor with smoothness and alpha-male toughness. Okay, Craig subverted the conventional rule book on Bond's appearance and character, but if we cast a black actor, Elba or someone else, it's more evidence of throwing away the Bond rule book!

  • Posts: 14,943
    The one black actor I would have been open to the idea to have him as Bond is Colin Salmon. Not to succeed Pierce Brosnan but instead of Brosnan, had he never played Robinson. He had then the right age, acting skills and he looked like what I think a Black Bond would have looked like (as Naomi Harris looked like a black, sexier Lois Maxwell at the end of SF).
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Here's a clip of Idris in Luther - the show that gave him him his big break. Watch the clip from 2:46 when Luther is walking down the street. What makes him stand out as a potential Bond?




    His voice? No, too gruff sounding.

    His accent? No - London East End type accent. Doesn't sound like Bond.

    His looks? Well, he looks like a reasonably good looking black man. If I walked past him in the street I wouldn't go "wow, he's really handsome." He is average good looking or not that good looking (depending on your view). The 'walk past him in the street' test is important. It's a great way to test someone's good looks. If you pass someone and you're struck by how good looking someone is, they've made an impression. Would Elba pass the 'walk past him in the street' test? In my opinion, no. It's all subjective, of course, but it's worth considering the 'walk past him in the street test' when considering all potential Bond actors. There is the counter-argument that Bond's looks are not that important. Fair enough. Not all fans agree with that view, though.

    Height - good height!

    Smoothness/refinement - nope, ain't seeing it. Elba is not a smooth/refined type. No big deal, we are what we are, but if you're promoting yourself as James Bond (and there is evidence to suggest Elba has done that!) then you're open to criticism if you don't meet some of the requirements.

    They could even try to hype a black actor with more hair and no beard or actually TRYING to look as a black James Bond, but no - their infatuation with this chap Elba is so big that they keep insisting with this tiny bit rumour. Idris Elba looks, acts and sounds NOTHING like James Bond, not even the Casino Royale 1967 Bonds or the Barry Nelson Bond. Even Johnny English is more Bond than Idris Elba.

    Thank God these are only the MI6 boards and not the main page or the magazine, because a black Bond article on the main page or magazine would decrease the serious quality and stature this great site has won over the years as the most popular unofficial Bond source.

    Regarding that Kate Hopkins, I don't know who she is but I'd agree with Satan himself if he said the black Bond idea is bollocks.

    I don't know snowflake liberals either, but I do know the snowflake Bond fans.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 727
    His accent? No - London East End type accent. Doesn't sound like Bond.

    Christ. Do you know what acting is? Actors are capable of changing their accent. Did Brosnan sound Irish when he was Bond?

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,847
    snowflake.jpg

    Sums it up nicely.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    snowflake.jpg

    Sums it up nicely.

    Sad but true.
  • Posts: 14,943
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    snowflake.jpg

    Sums it up nicely.

    Actually I would disagree on at least one point : I do not "adore" Bond's values. I accept them as part of his character. In the same vein, I'm not personally a manichean, but I accept that the Bond world is... And that manicheism works well in genre movies (and genre fiction overall).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited August 2018 Posts: 11,139
    fanbond123 wrote: »

    Bondjames wrote:

    Elba has definitely shown me that he can do smooth, suave and relatively refined. Not in Bastille Day perhaps, but that wasn't what Sean Briar was about. As you wrote, both Connery and Burton cleaned up nicely too under the right direction.

    Playing Bond is a privilege (due to the fame, fortune and recognition) and also a burden (due to the typecasting that can occur). Either way, it's a career defining role. Each actor who has had this opportunity has stepped up and delivered and I expect Bond #007 to do the same, no matter whether he's black, white, or some other ethnicity.


    People mention Elba can do 'suave'. Okay, where is he a bit like Bond? Any Youtube clips or any particular film where he feels a bit James Bond? I don't think Bastille Day is Elba like Bond. Much of the time his character is in a car, shouting at the American pickpocket. That's not my idea of a Bond screentest kinda performance. Elba seems good enough at action, got no issue with that, but where does he seem less street?

    There is perception too. I was reluctant to post the following but here goes... there has been a huge spike in black knife murders in London. The perps are 'street' - they are gang members. When Horowitz said Elba is too street he is saying Elba's acting or vibe is similar to people that fall into gang violence? Street thug mentality. I know that is a harsh thing to say and Elba is a decent guy but there is a reason why some people are anti-black (and certainly anti a black Bond). Not all racism is based on ignorance or blind hatred. Prejudice is not completely irrational.

    There has been a shocking rise in black knife crime in London and it's sad to say some people may consider a black Bond as a poster boy for black criminality. I'm sorry to post this but I am being brutally honest. James Bond is not a character where you should be politically correct and curb how you feel. I am being brutally honest why I don't want Elba as James Bond. Elba is too street for Bond - unless he can pull off the perception he is from a middle class white background. If he can do that, fair enough. If black criminals relate to an Elba Bond - "hey he's one of us, a cool bad ass Bond" - then it's the death of the character. Political correctness - be damned. This is Bond we're talking about, the future of the character.

    This post is overwhelmingly problematic and moronic.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 4,405
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    snowflake.jpg

    Sums it up nicely.

    Why has the world descended into the "us" versus "them" mentality.

    This issue is plaguing world politics and is seeping into the entertainment industry in a vulgar way. This whole "real fan" debacle is the same inane nonsense that Star Wars fans put forward when they attacked Kelly Marie Tran online.

    I think we can all confess that we've been overthinking this. In the grand scheme, whoever plays James Bond hardly matters. I mean, none of us are getting paid, it's someone else's job.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,847
    Hold on, now, @Pierce2Daniel. Such things DO matter to fans. I'm a Batman fan and when I saw the Clooney Batman, I went cold as a corpse. Say Justin Bieber is cast as Bond, or Jake Busey, or Ashton Kutcher, or Jason Mewes, ... I mean, seriously, even in the grand scheme it really does matter.

    I'm not trying to propagate some "us versus them mentality". I simply want James Bond to be a good looking male caucasian, the way he's always been. Call me a James Bond conservative if you like; I'm fine with that. His skin colour matters greatly to me. In the end, it all boils down to taste. Well, here I am defending mine.

    The "real Bond fans versus Snowflake Bond fans" post demonstrates an even bigger problem the entertainment industry is plagued with today: the fact that a very good product, once it's taken the spotlights long enough, becomes an inevitable target for people who want to impose all sorts of changes just for the sake of it, as if the property has already expired into the public domain and everyone is free to do with it as they want. Many are jealous of James Bond. Women want to be James Bond. Men with different skin colours want to be James Bond. Well, that's nice. I want to be James Bond too, but I'm Belgian, relatively short and unproven as an actor in almost every way, so nobody wants me as James Bond except for my mom--maybe. How rude! Surely my nationality, height or lack of resumé shouldn't keep me from fulfilling my lifelong dream? Not in this day and age, where wanting something but not getting it almost always means we're going to cry "sexist!", "ageist!", "racist!", ... Seriously, I'll never be many things I secretly want to be, so I'm focussing on what I can be and make the best of it.

    Also, there really is such a thing as a "real" James Bond fan, depending on how you define it. Many folks out there call themselves fans of James Bond but can't even recall the title of the film with that one guy who only did one Bond movie, or the film with the helicopter and the grave of Bond's wife whatshername. And then there are people like us, who watch the films almost religiously, read the Flemings, discuss Bond with other fans and know for a fact that not every Bond film ends with a countdown, that not every Bond film features SPECTRE and that not every Bond film uses a gadget-heavy sportscar or a suit with magic buttons left and right. We are real fans indeed, who live this stuff rather than merely watch half a movie when it's on TV. Obviously, none of this means we have to agree about everything, as this very thread demonstrates, so in that sense, I agree with you that it would be wrong to assume that we as "real" fans have the right to put our fists on the table and retaliate against producers, directors, actors, ... as if we represented the entire group, which is just stupid. But we are allowed to express our desires, each of us individually of course, and, well, in that one post, I recognised myself as a member of the left column and therefore happily gave it a thumb up the way I did.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2018 Posts: 12,459
    Honestly. I'm a lifelong Bond fan. I have no problem at all (as I have stated a few times) with Bond being black or any other skin color. Just keep him British, which can be pretty much any skin color.

    The above chart is simply stupid and annoying. I hope nobody here actually made that thing.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Honestly. I'm a lifelong Bond fan. I have no problem at all (as I have stated a few times) with Bond being black or any other skin color. Just keep him British, which can be pretty much any skin color.

    The above chart is simply stupid and annoying. I hope nobody here actually made that thing.

    But then he’s no longer Bond is he? He becomes 005 or something.

    Bond needs to be what is considered by the BRITISH to be what every man wants to be and who every woman wants to be with. Now it worked for Connery. He wasn’t quite the written character but he was what audiences responded to. Craig doesn’t fit the build does he. But he works because he looks quite good and women seem to find him attractive. Therefore what bond should be is what the British find attractive. Now, on average more brits are white than any other race. It’s a white dominated country. Therefore if bond is supposed to be the pinnacle of British looks, he should be white. It’s what the most women and men want to see.


    This is all in theory
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2018 Posts: 12,459
    Yeah he is Bond. It is not a problem; skin color no issue for me. Bond and being British overrides that. This really feels almost like nonsense to me, and also not nice, this pushing of him being white. And I do love my Fleming.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Hold on, now, @Pierce2Daniel. Such things DO matter to fans. I'm a Batman fan and when I saw the Clooney Batman, I went cold as a corpse. Say Justin Bieber is cast as Bond, or Jake Busey, or Ashton Kutcher, or Jason Mewes, ... I mean, seriously, even in the grand scheme it really does matter.

    Of course they do matter, particularly when you are a Bond fan for 20 years and every Bond release is like Christmas for you. Or when every item of your collection reminds you to someone who give it to you (relatives, friends, love interests, acquaintances). But the "it's only movies" mentality clearly belongs to a snowflake Bond fan.

    [quote="DarthDimi;907038"The "real Bond fans versus Snowflake Bond fans" post demonstrates an even bigger problem the entertainment industry is plagued with today: the fact that a very good product, once it's taken the spotlights long enough, becomes an inevitable target for people who want to impose all sorts of changes just for the sake of it, as if the property has already expired into the public domain and everyone is free to do with it as they want. Many are jealous of James Bond. Women want to be James Bond. Men with different skin colours want to be James Bond. Well, that's nice. I want to be James Bond too, but I'm Belgian, relatively short and unproven as an actor in almost every way, so nobody wants me as James Bond except for my mom--maybe. How rude! Surely my nationality, height or lack of resumé shouldn't keep me from fulfilling my lifelong dream? Not in this day and age, where wanting something but not getting it almost always means we're going to cry "sexist!", "ageist!", "racist!", ... Seriously, I'll never be many things I secretly want to be, so I'm focussing on what I can be and make the best of it. [/quote]

    Thank you for bring some reasoning to the whole thread. I miss the old days where a "Bond should be black" or "Bond should be female" thread was instantly closed for considering spam from outsiders. In my opinion, those thinking a black Bond could be a viable idea are either deluded or afraid to be called "racists".
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Also, there really is such a thing as a "real" James Bond fan, depending on how you define it. Many folks out there call themselves fans of James Bond but can't even recall the title of the film with that one guy who only did one Bond movie, or the film with the helicopter and the grave of Bond's wife whatshername. And then there are people like us, who watch the films almost religiously, read the Flemings, discuss Bond with other fans and know for a fact that not every Bond film ends with a countdown, that not every Bond film features SPECTRE and that not every Bond film uses a gadget-heavy sportscar or a suit with magic buttons left and right. We are real fans indeed, who live this stuff rather than merely watch half a movie when it's on TV. Obviously, none of this means we have to agree about everything, as this very thread demonstrates, so in that sense, I agree with you that it would be wrong to assume that we as "real" fans have the right to put our fists on the table and retaliate against producers, directors, actors, ... as if we represented the entire group, which is just stupid. But we are allowed to express our desires, each of us individually of course, and, well, in that one post, I recognised myself as a member of the left column and therefore happily gave it a thumb up the way I did.

    I agree. But the retaliation, tough, is NOT against "producers, directors, actors". It's against outsiders who downloaded one or two Bond films they heard "it was good" (like Skyfall) trough Torrents and suddenly became "Bond fans" who think Idris Elba could be a great James Bond. EON has nothing to do with this, I'm confident they can bring great movies (as a matter of fact, I LOVED their latest film SPECTRE, which was much hated by these "fans") altough I could dislike one or two little things from the Craig era.

    The "we vs them" is more than appropiate, I'm afraid, because we're not talking about Bond fans. We're talking about Bond fans vs Idris Elba fans posing as Bond fans or pretending to be Bond fans IF their great actor becames Bond in some weird fantasy in which that could happen.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    The above chart is simply stupid and annoying. I hope nobody here actually made that thing.

    I made it and is the most uncomfortable truth ever, I get it. Some weeks ago someone was surprised when I said some Bond fans hated Ian Fleming. They're quite easy to find. They give themselves away as Greene's men in the Tosca performance.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I seriously disagree. And I don't know why pitting Bond fans against each other is fine and dandy. It's not.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    When someone says "Mission: Impossible and James Bourne are better than James Bond". When they call Ian Fleming a racist, plagiarist, bigot. When they call him a misogynist and question his anti-political correctness to do the job. They're simply not Bond fans.

    I mean, I just prefer they could just openly say they don't like Bond and go to M:I or Bourne forums because their faith is a bit misplaced (as Trevelyan put it). See, it's like those people hating the lawyers and studying law, or hating doctors and studying medicine.

    Bond is not the character for a SJW. At least, not a character for the SJW who tries to apply his flag to Bond and push for a black Bond for the so-called "equalty". As a matter of fact, I know hard edged leftists who enjoy 007 but they agree applying their politics and ideals to the character would be downright silly. Or black men who think the black Bond idea is plain stupid (one of them being Yaphet Kotto).

    If you like Moonraker over Casino Royale, DAD over SPECTRE, TND over FRWL is not the point, these are preferences that have always happened in the Bond fandom. But you know the Elba/black Bond rumours are "sold" by people who give a damn about the character (in fact, hate the character) and debated by snowflake Bond fans.

    If not, just tell me why the Cuba Gooding Jr. and Catherine Zeta Jones (black Bond and female Bond from 2000s) where categorically debunked and never argued back then.

    5750d672e05a4851348814.gif
  • Posts: 7,506
    Jesus christ! I was under the impression that there were mainly grown ups on this site. I had no idea it was full of teenagers with a child like mentality. "Unless you agree with me on everything, you don't belong here" is an argument you expect to hear in 3rd grade.
  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    Jesus christ! I was under the impression that there were mainly grown ups on this site. I had no idea it was full of teenagers with a child like mentality. "Unless you agree with me on everything, you don't belong here" is an argument you expect to hear in 3rd grade.

    Or you are the resident of the USA of a member of the republic party. ;)
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 2,400
    jobo wrote: »
    Jesus christ! I was under the impression that there were mainly grown ups on this site. I had no idea it was full of teenagers with a child like mentality. "Unless you agree with me on everything, you don't belong here" is an argument you expect to hear in 3rd grade.

    This. This exactly. This is the reason I went from being one of the most frequent posters here to being one of the most sporadic. I keep wanting to go back to being a contributor on MI6 but that goes out the window when dolts like @NS_writings post garbage like that stupid chart. I'm open to the POSSIBILITY of a black Bond and I don't mind the fact that they have finally explored Bond's humanity in the films, so that makes me "not a real Bond fan". This franchise has been part of my life since I was seven years old and first watched TWINE on VHS, but that goes out the window because I don't view the series in the same conservative mod-edit way that this idiot does. Well fine. I'll go be a Bond fan somewhere else then.
  • Posts: 14,943
    Can we have a moderate view on the subject? On principle I'd tend to disagree with a black Bond. I would however remain open to the possibility if a credible candidate was shortlisted for the role. At the moment I can't think of one that would fit the bill even remotely, unless Colin Salmon can be in his 30s again. Idris Elba for all his qualities as an actor I can't see as Bond and he's too old now anyway. And I did not like his attitude when rumored for the role. He was great as Stringer Bell, but that was a long time ago and what has he done since that he can be truly proud of?

    Oh and I'm vehemently against an American as Bond (or as a Brit character in general), I'm open to a Canadian or a South African providing they can get a natural British accent, I'm all for a gay actor playing Bond if he can play it straight (pun intended), I'm all for a Jew playing Bond, so I hope nobody will accuse me of racism or intolerance or close mindedness. I'll also say that while I have no problem with these there will be people who DO and yet want a Black actor as Bond.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 17,507
    That chart; what's the point of putting a "label" on fans and what they think of Bond and Fleming? Also, the third point on the left hand side of the chart and the last one on the right hand side…
  • Posts: 4,602
    "When someone says "Mission: Impossible and James Bourne are better than James Bond". When they call Ian Fleming a racist, plagiarist, bigot. When they call him a misogynist and question his anti-political correctness to do the job. They're simply not Bond fans. "

    Ironic that this is a forum for Bond fans and yet, we have some members seeking to apply their own definition of "Bond fan" and, therefore, exclude some people from the fandom.

    To attempt to exclude people using this method is the worst form of elitism and I have seen it in other areas of life. Common sense would say that places like this are where fans can come together to share their passion, knowledge and enthusiasm rather than apply their own narrow definitions and create false barriers.

    All very sad.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,885
    This thread is a dumpster fire.

    This topic only reignited due to Fuqua's lie that Barbara recently told him it was time for an ethnic minority actor to play Bond, in the near future.

    And why even bother talking about something that definitely won't happen until Craig is gone and most certainly won't happen under EON's (aka the Broccolis') watch.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    jobo wrote: »
    Jesus christ! I was under the impression that there were mainly grown ups on this site. I had no idea it was full of teenagers with a child like mentality. "Unless you agree with me on everything, you don't belong here" is an argument you expect to hear in 3rd grade.

    This. This exactly. This is the reason I went from being one of the most frequent posters here to being one of the most sporadic. I keep wanting to go back to being a contributor on MI6 but that goes out the window when dolts like @NS_writings post garbage like that stupid chart. I'm open to the POSSIBILITY of a black Bond and I don't mind the fact that they have finally explored Bond's humanity in the films, so that makes me "not a real Bond fan". This franchise has been part of my life since I was seven years old and first watched TWINE on VHS, but that goes out the window because I don't view the series in the same conservative mod-edit way that this idiot does. Well fine. I'll go be a Bond fan somewhere else then.

    The chart -that apparently has touhed you very much- was made out of actual quotes of snowflake Bond fan quotes who have said all that. I won't name them, but they have written books and all that, becoming famous thanks to the character they hate... dolt!
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