Controversial opinions about Bond films

19798100102103696

Comments

  • doubleoego wrote:
    I'm trying to think of something Bond did that was more stupid than bringing M to SF manor whilst deliberately allowing Silva to follow/find him.

    Driving a BMW down on a pedestrian street by remote in TND?
    Sneaking out of his room once too often in OHMSS?
    Robbing Solitaire of her special gift that could have helped them later?
    Aiding islamist thugs in TLD?

    But that's just slightly harsh. They were our allies back in the 80's when the common enemy was the Soviet Union.

    And incidentally, who do you think trained and supplied these "thugs" with weapons?

    I know, Saudi Arabia and the US. Glad they are so much better off down there now thanks to our help.

    Yes. Afghanistan was a veritable paradise before we arrived.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,090
    What I find interesting about SF is that Bond failed. He managed to kill Silva but he was about to die with M anyway and Silva's only goal was to kill M, he would've stopped after that.

    You could say he got the list back but that was all Silva's plan anyway. In the end, Bond didn't accomplish anything that wouldn't have happened without him. He may as well have let Silva kill M at the court house, that way he would've spared Kincade a lot of trouble and would've been able to keep his Aston Martin :P

    M being killed at the hearing would have made for a shorter film I'm sure but it would have at least made her death make more sense as opposed to Bond dragging her across country to die needlessly.


    Also, I think the fit of Craig's suits in CR are horrendous and a bit too baggy, doing nothing for his body shape at all. The only formal wear that actually looked good on him were the dinner suit and the 3 piece at the end. His suits in QoS and especially SF are a significant improvement.
  • I quite like how Bond fails in SF. We've had 50 years of saving the day and then SF shows that in the end, he's only human. No matter how hard he tries, there will be times where he messes up and that was one of them. He's not always going to be able to save the day and get the girl at the end.

    I can't think of Bond ever really failing at the end of a film before. You could make a case for GF and some other films where he was saved by other people but in those films the baddy was still stopped in the end, unlike in SF.
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2014 Posts: 10,432
    Bond fails in the sense he fails to prevent M's death. On the other hand, Silva doesn't win as he never sees M die, nor does he know she will. I guess Bond can take some comfort in that. Quite subtle for a Bond film.
  • RC7 wrote:
    Bond fails in the sense he fails to prevent M's death. On the other hand, Silva doesn't win as he never sees M die, nor does he know she will. I guess Bond can take some comfort in that. Quite subtle for a Bond film.

    Silva also failed at discrediting M and destroying MI6, both of which are practically more important, if not thematically.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,258
    doubleoego wrote:
    I'm trying to think of something Bond did that was more stupid than bringing M to SF manor whilst deliberately allowing Silva to follow/find him.
    Aiding islamist thugs in TLD?
    But that's just slightly harsh. They were our allies back in the 80's when the common enemy was the Soviet Union.

    Yes. What was Bond supposed to do? Look into his geo-political crystal ball & enlighten his government that the Muhajadeen would eventually become terrorists known as Al- kinda? :))
    It worked for the times IMO. He was an agent, not an analyisist.
  • Yeah I agree, the TLD bit doesn't bother me because of the time period. He was simply helping them and they were helping him to get the job done.
  • Posts: 908
    chrisisall wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    I'm trying to think of something Bond did that was more stupid than bringing M to SF manor whilst deliberately allowing Silva to follow/find him.
    Aiding islamist thugs in TLD?
    But that's just slightly harsh. They were our allies back in the 80's when the common enemy was the Soviet Union.

    Yes. What was Bond supposed to do? Look into his geo-political crystal ball & enlighten his government that the Muhajadeen would eventually become terrorists known as Al- kinda? :))
    It worked for the times IMO. He was an agent, not an analyisist.

    it's worth noting,that the Muhajadeen are not to be confused with the Taliban (let alone Al Quaida). The Muhajadeen are afghan tribal fighters,who - for their right to continue to live in the Stone Age -have fought foreign conquerors well before the days of Alexander,the great (and have won ever since) . In fact now that the US and its allies are withdrawing from Afganistan they prepare to fight the Talibans "comeback", since they are also not willing to take orders from them as well.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    I'm trying to think of something Bond did that was more stupid than bringing M to SF manor whilst deliberately allowing Silva to follow/find him.
    Aiding islamist thugs in TLD?
    But that's just slightly harsh. They were our allies back in the 80's when the common enemy was the Soviet Union.

    Yes. What was Bond supposed to do? Look into his geo-political crystal ball & enlighten his government that the Muhajadeen would eventually become terrorists known as Al- kinda? :))
    It worked for the times IMO. He was an agent, not an analyisist.

    Al-Kinda. Roger Moore called, he wants his one-liner back. ;)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,326
    I always assumed it's because Bond thought he HAD killed him when he pushed him off the roof.

    Ah, I was meant to say, that Bond didn't shoot him, of course.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Hotel Kali-Yuga
    edited January 2014 Posts: 40,876
    I see that my "islamist thugs" comment sparked some debate here among you fine people, and want to clarify something about those Mujahedin( Jihadists in English). They were not formed to fight the Soviets. They were united to fight the legally elected Afghan government because they could not stand the secular state and that equal rights were given to women among other un-islamic things.
    That is why Kabul phoned Moscow who were their allies back then. The Russians were there to fight the Mujahedin, not the other way around.
    CIA and Bin Laden armed and trained those rebels because they opposed communists and secularists respectively, nothing else. For me, that is akin to letting rattlesnakes loose to fight rats.
    The 2001 invasion is something different entirely, but as it stands now it seems like a total waste as Taliban and sharia will shortly return to those poor people I think.

    As for Bond not being an analyst, fair point. The omniscient Bond of the seventies was an invention of the young Mankiewicz I believe, and not very believable. Besides, there isnt necessarily much intelligence in the intelligence communities.

    Despite TLD (a film of the times that someone pointed out, and which I very much appreciate) having this element, it is slightly off topic and I suggest we lay it to rest.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Bar DAD Brosnan has the best gunbarrel walk/shoot sequence

    LTK has the best accompanying music out of all of the gunbarrel sequences
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    I think that the best gunbarrel music was in LALD and GE.
  • Posts: 105
    Goldeneye is not a "classic". It's just as miserable and boring as the other Brosnan outings.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,317
    doubleoego wrote:
    Bar DAD Brosnan has the best gunbarrel walk/shoot sequence

    LTK has the best accompanying music out of all of the gunbarrel sequences

    Agree with the first point, disagree with the second. I think the best music is either GF, OHMSS or TLD.
    Chang wrote:
    Goldeneye is not a "classic". It's just as miserable and boring as the other Brosnan outings.

    If you don't like it then fair enough but it's not miserable and it's certainly not boring. If you're going to slag off GE then slag off the score or the plot.

    I think there are so many people hopping on the "GE is overrated" bandwagon that it actually doesn't get the appreciation it deserves. It's a classic imo. Reinvents Bond after the cold war, introduces a great new Bond actor, has one of the best Bond girls of the series, has one of the best villains of the series and it has a witty script full of great lines, iconic moments (probably the most iconic film bar GF), colourful characters (best side characters of the series) and cracking action scenes. There's so much to love in this film and I think it should be in everyone's top 10, at least.

    Too many people say "GE's alright, Brosnan's best but that's not saying much", when in reality it's every bit as brilliant as it's biggest fans make out imo.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,175
    Its got its flaws but I've always regarded GE as one of my favourites. I still have fun watching it. Shoot me.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,317
    I blame the video game for the GE hate. It's given too many people an excuse to dismiss the praise it gets. "The film is crap really, it's just kids that grew up with the game who love it", etc.

    It's definetely one of my favourites. Last time I ranked them my top 5 was something like

    1) LTK
    2) TLD
    3) GE
    4) OHMSS
    5) TSWLM
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,175
    I blame the video game for the GE hate. It's given too many people an excuse to dismiss the praise it gets. "The film is crap really, it's just kids that grew up with the game who love it", etc.

    It's definetely one of my favourites. Last time I ranked them my top 5 was something like

    1) LTK
    2) TLD
    3) GE
    4) OHMSS
    5) TSWLM


    I haven't played the game for some time. However I will agree that there is a big level of nostalgia for the film that does prejudice ones opinion. Personally I can't really be very objective about a film I watched literally hundreds of times growing up and can subsequently now recite the dialogue of almost every scene off by heart. I suspect Pierce would be stunned at how many of his lines I remember. I'm being serious.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 2,469
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Its got its flaws but I've always regarded GE as one of my favourites. I still have fun watching it. Shoot me.

    I rate it No. 2 behind OHMSS.

  • Posts: 11,175
    I think there are a handful of films that are better (or at least have aged better) but in terms of entertainment value GE is fairly high (for me anyway). In his 1995 review Kim Newman (famous UK critic) described it as "the best film since OHMSS".
  • GoldenEye is a movie that is supremely important and deserves the utmost respect. Without it, the Bond series could very well not exist today. Only very few films in the canon can say that.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,317
    I think Brosnan in the GE fight scenes seems tougher than Craig does in the SF fight scenes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,258
    I think Brosnan in the GE fight scenes seems tougher than Craig does in the SF fight scenes.
    OOOOooo, that's gonna get you in trouble....

    I love GE myself.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,269
    I think Brosnan in the GE fight scenes seems tougher than Craig does in the SF fight scenes.

    I totally agree. The SF fight scenes just didn't do it for me like the fights in CR and QoS did. Makes me worried about any fight scenes we'll get in B24 now that Mendes is back on board.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,035
    I blame the cheapness of the Skyfall fights on Craig's tight suits. :))
  • Bradford4Bradford4 Banned
    Posts: 152
    The mans a lion, practically bursting out of his suits in Skyfall. Probably split his pants and had to ask Q for a needle and thread!
  • Posts: 10,274
    We all have several controversial opinions, but even though it probably wouldn't count today, if you went back to the 1970s and said OHMSS is a top 5 Bond film, you'd be laughed at.
  • TubesTubes The Hebrew Hammer
    Posts: 158
    In spite of his films progressively getting worse, Brosnan never had a bad performance as Bond and I'd rather had seen him get a proper sendoff film than end his tenure on such a down note.

    It ended up working out for the franchise, but I always felt kinda bad for him. Opinion on his tenure and films completely reversed in the span of 3 years.
  • It's the old problem, @Tubes. He had his Moonraker, but never his For Your Eyes Only. Ending his tenure on such a sour note, without the extended runs Connery and Moore got, really screwed him over.
  • Continuing the GoldenEye discussion I agree with everything @thelivingroyale said.

    Concerning the Brosnan conversation I'm of the opinion that Brosnan's personal best performance was in Die Another Day. He alone keeps the film afloat when it threatens to collapse in on itself (various times).
Sign In or Register to comment.