NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions NO SPOILERS please

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  • Posts: 7,500
    Was that just a joke, or a spoiler?
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 644
    Honestly the Craig era has been one big misfire. For those who thought his tenure was going to be like the Second Coming were quickly given a reality check as each consecutive film after CR failed to live up to expectations. Look at the M:I franchise. Those films just keep getting better and better while Bond is sinking lower and lower. Honestly after SP left such a bitter taste in my mouth I lost all hope that Babs & Mikey (but especially Babs) know how to make a proper Bond film anymore. Or even want to. For the first time I didn’t even care if another Bond film was made. And then the pandemic hit and I completely forgot about Bond. It’s barely been on my radar this past year. Usually I’m jazzed about seeing the next Bond film, but I honestly can’t get excited about going to see NTTD. Especially after some of the comments I’ve read.

    Bottom line is they hit on something special when they made CR and gave us a Bond Begins story. Which worked. But that should have been the end of that. No need to try to milk the whole emotional arc and now it seems like they’ve been trying to turn Swann into another Vesper. Every film has been bogged down with emotional baggage and it’s been getting worse and worse with each passing film. And Babs has no intention of stopping. And Mikey is either too old or doesn’t have enough say in matters. Basically Babs calls all the shots and has been turning the franchise into something that isn’t Bond.

    The Craig era is no different from the Brosnan era in that the first film was a classic and everything after that has been going downhill. Except that for all their faults the Brosnan films still feel like Bond films. Look at TND - it’s no classic and is very formulaic yet it’s an enjoyable watch and is more fun than anything we’ve had in years from Craig. I say Brosnan has nothing to feel ashamed about. It’s Craig that should seriously question where the producers took his series. Unless he really loves all this “outside the box” stuff. But you can go so far outside the box that you won’t find your way back.
  • Posts: 7,500
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.
  • Posts: 7,500
    matt_u wrote: »
    Safin's appearing in front of young Swann in front of the window made me almost scream.

    EDIT: Is that a spoiler? We saw him at the cabin 100 times before release.


    Perhaps it isn´t. I have deliberately stayed away from even watching trailers or any pre production information. So I might be more sensitive than most people.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,834
    I'm all for these discussions, but I just want to say I hope we can just all respect each other's opinions. None of us are wrong. Those who loved it aren't wrong for doing so, and those who hated it aren't wrong for doing so. I also hope we can explore our discussions as opinions as opposed to facts, because sometimes I think people verge on the idea that what they're saying is the "truth".
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 295
    NTTD
    Univex wrote: »
    After that travesty last night, the only way forward now for the next Bond film for me would be the following -

    Traditional Bond film, in the old fashioned way, which includes -

    1) Pre credit sequence with action, lively music song for the titles (more ATAK, LALD, TLD, CR rather than dreary depressing).

    2) Bond flirting with Moneypenny, in to see M, gets briefed, then pops off downstairs to see Q for the latest gadget - AND THEN WE DON'T SEE THEM AGAIN!!

    3) Bond on a mission with no personal, or emotional ties whatsoever!

    4) The villain is just a bad guy, with no personal issues.

    5) Bond sleeps with women, with no personal connections to them.

    6) Lots of unused Fleming scenes PROPERLY adapted.

    As of now, I'm really done with the Craig era, Last night seems to have highlighted everything that has gone wrong with the Craig era, which I wasn't even really aware of until now. And such a shame after CR showed the way, which is one of the best films in the franchise.

    This post really mirrors my feelings. You're spot on @jetsetwilly.

    And btw, I too had a bloody sleepless night :(

    That won't happen with Barbara Broccoli in charge. I doubt she'll cast a Bond type looking Bond nor go back to emotion free missions. The Craig era is her vision hence why the gun barrel was mucked about, not at the start, at the end! And of course why NTTD ends the way it does.



  • Posts: 3,160
    jobo wrote: »
    The fact that formula slaves apparently hate it while more open minded people love it, honestly just makes me even more intrigued!
    Yes...people who don't like NTTD can't be open-minded people! I remember "fans" saying the exact same thing after QoS, SF and SP.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    After that travesty last night, the only way forward now for the next Bond film for me would be the following -

    Traditional Bond film, in the old fashioned way, which includes -

    1) Pre credit sequence with action, lively music song for the titles (more ATAK, LALD, TLD, CR rather than dreary depressing).

    2) Bond flirting with Moneypenny, in to see M, gets briefed, then pops off downstairs to see Q for the latest gadget - AND THEN WE DON'T SEE THEM AGAIN!!

    3) Bond on a mission with no personal, or emotional ties whatsoever!

    4) The villain is just a bad guy, with no personal issues.

    5) Bond sleeps with women, with no personal connections to them.

    6) Lots of unused Fleming scenes PROPERLY adapted.

    As of now, I'm really done with the Craig era, Last night seems to have highlighted everything that has gone wrong with the Craig era, which I wasn't even really aware of until now. And such a shame after CR showed the way, which is one of the best films in the franchise.

    This post really mirrors my feelings. You're spot on @jetsetwilly.

    And btw, I too had a bloody sleepless night :(
    That won't happen with Barbara Broccoli in charge. I doubt she'll cast a Bond-type looking Bond nor go back to emotion-free missions. The Craig era is her vision hence why the gun barrel was mucked about, not at the start, at the end! And of course why NTTD ends the way it does.
    I don't think that's very fair. We can't say for sure what was whose vision, and I personally think it's a mistake to solely blame one person for whatever mistakes people think have been made, in their opinion. Especially the gunbarrel, because we've had a different one for each movie?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    jobo wrote: »
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.

    Calling out those who didn't like the film as not being "open-minded" and considering them to be "formula slaves" seems kind of extreme to me. I wouldn't classify someone as such or try to tell them who they are because they loved an installment I hated or vice versa.
  • Can't wait to see film tonight. I'm sure it's a classic Bond but if it isn't it's still a Bond film. While I enjoy the MI films theybonky feature characters who have no real backstory or emotional attachment which the Bond universe has in abundance.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,400
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.

    Calling out those who didn't like the film as not being "open-minded" and considering them to be "formula slaves" seems kind of extreme to me. I wouldn't classify someone as such or try to tell them who they are because they loved an installment I hated or vice versa.

    I don't have that problem with people who dislike the film and I fully acknowledge that this is not a Bond film for everyone. I want to have dialogues with people who give measured critiques of it. What I'm not interested in are people writing nonsense emails to EON that claim the film is "insulting" to Bond fans en masse, in being spoken for, or being indirectly dismissed as a "casual fan" because I dared to be the first guy through the wall on these forums and say that NTTD is excellent. People who do THAT, to me, are the problem.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Denbigh wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    After that travesty last night, the only way forward now for the next Bond film for me would be the following -

    Traditional Bond film, in the old fashioned way, which includes -

    1) Pre credit sequence with action, lively music song for the titles (more ATAK, LALD, TLD, CR rather than dreary depressing).

    2) Bond flirting with Moneypenny, in to see M, gets briefed, then pops off downstairs to see Q for the latest gadget - AND THEN WE DON'T SEE THEM AGAIN!!

    3) Bond on a mission with no personal, or emotional ties whatsoever!

    4) The villain is just a bad guy, with no personal issues.

    5) Bond sleeps with women, with no personal connections to them.

    6) Lots of unused Fleming scenes PROPERLY adapted.

    As of now, I'm really done with the Craig era, Last night seems to have highlighted everything that has gone wrong with the Craig era, which I wasn't even really aware of until now. And such a shame after CR showed the way, which is one of the best films in the franchise.

    This post really mirrors my feelings. You're spot on @jetsetwilly.

    And btw, I too had a bloody sleepless night :(
    That won't happen with Barbara Broccoli in charge. I doubt she'll cast a Bond-type looking Bond nor go back to emotion-free missions. The Craig era is her vision hence why the gun barrel was mucked about, not at the start, at the end! And of course why NTTD ends the way it does.
    I don't think that's very fair. We can't say for sure what was whose vision, and I personally think it's a mistake to solely blame one person for whatever mistakes people think have been made, in their opinion. Especially the gunbarrel, because we've had a different one for each movie?

    It
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.

    Calling out those who didn't like the film as not being "open-minded" and considering them to be "formula slaves" seems kind of extreme to me. I wouldn't classify someone as such or try to tell them who they are because they loved an installment I hated or vice versa.

    I don't have that problem with people who dislike the film and I fully acknowledge that this is not a Bond film for everyone. I want to have dialogues with people who give measured critiques of it. What I'm not interested in are people writing nonsense emails to EON that claim the film is "insulting" to Bond fans en masse, in being spoken for, or being indirectly dismissed as a "casual fan" because I dared to be the first guy through the wall on these forums and say that NTTD is excellent. People who do THAT, to me, are the problem.

    100%, same here. I've not even seen the film yet, just six days to go, but the amount of personal attacks or descriptions of fans with different views is quite appalling to me, as is the ludicrous nature of thinking writing EON or whoever is going to solve anything. It makes you look childish and these sorts of petitions and letters do nothing but garner some bad Internet attention and nothing more. Whatever you don't like about the film, happened, so it's best to move on and gear up for the next one, enjoying the previous installments you do like in the meantime. Totally agreed, @StirredNotShaken.

    And while I have my thoughts on what to expect or what I am excited for or worried about for the film, I must say your excitement and enthusiastic posts have been very infectious for me. They're keeping my optimism as high as it can be, appreciate it!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited October 2021 Posts: 40,372
    I did, though I initially threw out the word "elitist" due to his description of those who hated the film as "formula slaves" and not being "open-minded." There's no reason for that and it's in poor taste. You liked the film, why get so bothered by those who don't?

    Let's get back on track and keep it civil, please.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Birdleson wrote: »
    So you're the bastard that started it! Resign.

    I'll pack my things!
  • Posts: 2,400
    Birdleson wrote: »
    So you're the bastard that started it! Resign.

    Who would've thought that Ian Fleming being born 113 years ago would culminate in @Creasy47 being put in front of a firing squad? Crazy, this world.
  • I'm seeing the film next Thursday evening (SO PUMPED) but my feeling on it is that this is the end of Craig's era, and the end of his James Bond, full stop. So I don't think they can do anything to/for/with his character that's going to bother me a lot in the long run. Cary said in an interview a few weeks ago that the words "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN" are in the end credits, so I'm going into this with an open mind. Does he turn gay? Does he have triplets? Does he wake up and realize everything from the B&W opening of CR was all a dream? Whatever. It's a clean slate with the new actor, so I'm not going to get bothered by any of it.

    Of course, it's easy for me to say that now :-D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,000
    What I don’t appreciate is certain folks that accuse fans of the film not being “true fans” of Bond. So the term “elitist prick” seems applicable. I may have my disagreements with opinions held by those like Jetsetwilly but I would never accuse him of not being a “true fan”
  • Posts: 2,491
    After that travesty last night, the only way forward now for the next Bond film for me would be the following -

    Traditional Bond film, in the old fashioned way, which includes -

    1) Pre credit sequence with action, lively music song for the titles (more ATAK, LALD, TLD, CR rather than dreary depressing ).

    2) Bond flirting with Moneypenny, in to see M, gets briefed, then pops off downstairs to see Q for the latest gadget - AND THEN WE DON'T SEE THEM AGAIN!!

    3) Bond on a mission with no personal, or emotional ties whatsoever!

    4) The villain is just a bad guy, with no personal issues.

    5) Bond sleeps with women, with no personal connections to them.

    6) Lots of unused Fleming scenes PROPERLY adapted.

    As of now, I'm really done with the Craig era, Last night seems to have highlighted everything that has gone wrong with the Craig era, which I wasn't even really aware of until now. And such a shame after CR showed the way, which is one of the best films in the franchise.

    This sounds good enough.

    You forgot the Q scene where Bond has a bit of banter with the serious Q.

    And a villain with some "take over the world" scheme.

    I wouldn't mind a movie like this.



  • What I don’t appreciate is certain folks that accuse fans of the film not being “true fans” of Bond. So the term “elitist prick” seems applicable. I may have my disagreements with opinions held by those like Jetsetwilly but I would never accuse him of not being a “true fan”

    Agreed! One thing I love about "true fans" of Bond is that their opinions can be so disparate. There is not one film in this series that isn't on at least one true fan's list, and not one that isn't at the bottom of another true fan's list. That's the fun of it. But who am I, or anyone else, to say someone isn't enough of a fan because they're too young, or don't share the same opinions as me? Or just because they can't name every Bond film in chronological order in under 20 seconds, like I can, bahaha.
  • Posts: 2,400
    Does he wake up and realize everything from the B&W opening of CR was all a dream?

    You guessed it, he wakes up in bed next to his wife and we realize James Bond was just Newhart all along!
  • Posts: 2,491
    Univex wrote: »
    2006-2021: The subversive years. I say let's keep that contained in a tenure.
    Haha, is NTTD also going for the Hollywood bullshit of "Subversion!"

    ???

    I havent' seen the movie but... FFS!

    If they really go with the "subversion" as tactic...after the massive fail of Game of Thrones' last season and the Star Wars sequels (and mind you, as a non-SW fan I enjoyed the subversion of episode 8 ) ....

    They really haven't learned their lesson...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    All I know is that 4EverBonded told me she loved it. So I will too in a few days time.
  • Does he wake up and realize everything from the B&W opening of CR was all a dream?

    You guessed it, he wakes up in bed next to his wife and we realize James Bond was just Newhart all along!

    Bahaha. Or he turns into Bruce Willis and we realize that Dryden shot him at the beginning of CR and he's been dead this whole time. None of this will bother me, because it's over now and we're on to a new era.
  • Posts: 2,491
    Also, VERY important thing to everyone that hasn't seen the movie.

    You are reading opinions of people that watched the movie on the first night after waiting for YEARS for the movie.

    The opinions may not be totally objective, and they may be too positive or too negative.

    I know I fell a victim to this with SPECTRE.

    When it came out I thought it was like..10th best Bond or maybe even better.

    Now I really think it damaged the series and while it's an alright action movie, it has many bad things in it and is probably one of the...."not that good" category Bond movies, and the things it had may* damage the franchise forever.

    So my point is... wait for...at least a month to see the objective thoughts of everyone that said "I LOVED EVERY BIT OF IT! NOT AS GOOD AS CR BUT CLOSE TO IT!" or everyone that said "THIS IS THE WORST THING TO EVER COME OUT AND IT RUINED THE FRANCHISE FOREVER"

    * = and judging from the trailers and the fact that NTTD is a direct continuation to SP.... I think my fears may become a reality...
  • Posts: 7,500
    Birdleson wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.

    I'v been working hard to turn down the temperature and rhetoric around here. Obviously you guys feel no obligation to do likewise, but when you throw out the word "elitism" you know you're adding to the friction. Nothing civil will come of it. Let's try to argue the position without characterizing or digging at the member.

    I was not the one to bring up the word "elitism"...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    The elitism is definitely on the side of the formula defenders. They claim an ownership of what «is» or «isn´t» a Bond film, based on being «proper fans». I am pretty tired of it. One can easily be a fan of Fleming and the classic films and still find it interesting when they shake things up.

    I'v been working hard to turn down the temperature and rhetoric around here. Obviously you guys feel no obligation to do likewise, but when you throw out the word "elitism" you know you're adding to the friction. Nothing civil will come of it. Let's try to argue the position without characterizing or digging at the member.

    I was not the one to bring up the word "elitism"...

    That's been established. The original point and request still stands, though.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I did, though I initially threw out the word "elitist" due to his description of those who hated the film as "formula slaves" and not being "open-minded." There's no reason for that and it's in poor taste. You liked the film, why get so bothered by those who don't?

    Let's get back on track and keep it civil, please.

    I admit my reaction was over the top and I apologize. I am just so tired about the endless whining and bickering because the producers are not making the decisions entitled fans want. And although I realize it is not the case with everyone, many of the arguments put forward suggest they are indeed close minded...
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    Do we learn Nomi and Paloma's surnames?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    jobo wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I did, though I initially threw out the word "elitist" due to his description of those who hated the film as "formula slaves" and not being "open-minded." There's no reason for that and it's in poor taste. You liked the film, why get so bothered by those who don't?

    Let's get back on track and keep it civil, please.

    I admit my reaction was over the top and I apologize. I am just so tired about the endless whining and bickering because the producers are not making the decisions entitled fans want. And although I realize it is not the case with everyone, many of the arguments put forward suggest they are indeed close minded...

    I'd say that's a better way of approaching the argument, sans boxing them into a corner by saying they must all be close-minded. I, personally, am a fan of the original formula, where every film is mostly detached from its predecessor and successor, but I've yet to see NTTD so I'm reserving any judgment regarding the spoilers I've heard until then. I might not be a fan of what's come in the last few years but I'd never say they weren't Bond films because of it, just not exactly what I'm after is all (though nothing to the point that I'm starting a petition or writing EON a letter or attacking others who loved SF and SP, either, of course. That's foolish).

    I'm very excited for Thursday to get here so I can see how it works for me and whether it's an all around excellent outing. I do hope it is.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,036
    QBranch wrote: »
    Do we learn Nomi and Paloma's surnames?

    No, mi dont recall them coming up. In the case of Nomi, they may be on some computer screens which you can freeze frame on the dvd.
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