Is it time for a new female 'main villain' in a Bond film ?

24

Comments

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2013 Posts: 12,459
    I think I agree with you about Sophie not being dangerous and if she were older, especially a bit more world weary or let her experience show through somehow, she could have been more dangerous, had more gravitas.

    Man, I want some good news in these categories, asap (I think I will have a long wait):
    Deakins confirmed, then main villain announced.
  • JrW_008JrW_008 The North
    Posts: 112
    I think it could work, basing that off of Klebb, not quite the main villain and Elektra, again not 100% the main villain. If they cast it right, and it ties in with the script, then I'd be happy with it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,524
    Of course a female villain can work. I only hope they can steer away from objectifying her as a tool to eventually satisfy Bond's lust. In order for such a female antagonist to be convincing, we must be able to see her as something other than a collection of breasts and legs. So by all means provide us with a villainess, just make sure they don't deliberately make her beauty distracting.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 2013 Posts: 4,436
    From the 11 people i like to see as Quantum leader, be 10 woman and if not Camile be villian played by Olga Kurylenko or Zeta Jones then this 8 people i like to see as Quantum leader:

    Eliana Alexander
    Isabelle Huppert
    Catherine McCormack
    Do Thi Hai Yen
    Connie Nielsen
    Andie MacDowell
    Vanessa Redgrave
    Jane Fonda

    connie_nielsen.jpg
    Connie Nielsen http://images.tvrage.com/news/boss-s-connie-nielsen-joins-the-following-possibly-major-spoiler-included.jpg


    From my Bond girl nominations i consider those also as villian:

    Samantha Lockwood
    Leelee Sobieski
    Alma S. Grey
    Rachel Skarsten
    Jennifer Lothrop
    Amy Hunter
    Patti D'Arbanville
  • Posts: 14,816
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Of course a female villain can work. I only hope they can steer away from objectifying her as a tool to eventually satisfy Bond's lust. In order for such a female antagonist to be convincing, we must be able to see her as something other than a collection of breasts and legs. So by all means provide us with a villainess, just make sure they don't deliberately make her beauty distracting.

    That's why if they go that route, I would prefer to have an older woman.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2015 Posts: 17,779
    I believe that another near-miss in the female villains in Bond films department (with Klebb and Elektra King they were anyway) was Maud Adams as Octopussy. Her character was originally conceived as a vengeful villainess who used her knowledge of Tracy Bond's tragic death to hit James Bond in his weak area. This was how her character was actually originally conceived by the writers before she was changed to the semi-villain she was in the film, where Prince Kamal Khan and General Orlov took over the joint villain honours instead.
  • You could have a sort of husband and wife team, like Lady Macbeth. One egging the other on... It needn't be the trad villain thing.

    Interesting to read about the original concept for Octopussy. Sounds a bit John Gardner though...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2015 Posts: 17,779
    You could have a sort of husband and wife team, like Lady Macbeth. One egging the other on... It needn't be the trad villain thing.

    Interesting to read about the original concept for Octopussy. Sounds a bit John Gardner though...

    Yes, good one. I actually thought that Elektra King had a bit of Lady Macbeth about her in a recent viewing of TWINE. Just look at how she goads her Macbeths (Renard AND Bond) into getting her own way on pain of death! Her name "King" is in itself rather male (i.e. removing from her breast the "milk of human kindness") and making her both an honorary male and regal with it too. It also smacks a bit of the Emperor's New Clothes in that she kills her father to avenge her mother and her mother's heritage and usurps her father's male dominating place as place as patriarch and head of the King oil business, Elektra-like. I still think that film stands up very well even now, although it gets a very poor rap here on MI6 Community and other Bond forums for reasons I've never fully fathomed myself. It pre-dates the more serious road taken by the Craig Bonds, although it is very unfashionable to say that nowadays of course. As one of the Bond film books says, it's almost as if they sat down and thought about it with TWINE when compared with previous more lightweight Bond capers. The very same is true of SF of course. A lot of thought went into that one to make it the very best Bond film in years.

    The John Gardner one - do you mean Nena Blofeld there? I see a link between Octopussy and that too - in the way she is revealed. Octopussy as a character and indeed the film of the same name is itself in essence Gardneresque in places (right down to the very convoluted plot-line, too!) and presumably that is not a coincidence given the fact that the novel For Special Services and film Octopussy appeared in 1982 and 1983 respectively.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Having a female villain in the James Bond series has been a bit of a mixed bag. We've seen some great characters such as Volpe, Rosa Klebb and even Fatima Blush (although not from an official entry standpoint), and there's been other names such as Xenia, Miranda Frost, Elektra King, May Day and Helga Brandt for example, that didn't work out because they were ineffective, too unbelievable, on screen for too short a time, or in the case of Onatopp, simply too outlandish to be taken seriously

    When was the last time we had a truly fine and memorable female villain ? Sophie Marceau did an adequate job, but she was simply the best of a poor lot going back far enough to characters such as Paluzzi's Volpe or Ilse Steppat's Bunt in On Her Majestys Secret Service

    I don't know if a female "main" villain would work now. We certainly need a marked improvement in the 'bad girl' department after recent years, as they've been disappointing, but would be content to see them continue as allies of the main adversary and nothing more. No need for change on this issue you truly feel
  • Posts: 140
    I've always thought of Elektra King as more or less already filling this position. In any case, I wouldn't be averse to a female head villain as long as her character is written and performed properly.

    The trick would be to create a female enemy that seemed to be a match for Bond and a real threat to him without making her some kind of outlandish ninja-woman or anything similarly campy that wouldn't fit with the more down-to-earth tone of the Craig films.

    Perhaps a mature woman in a position of political power who happens to be pulling the strings on some vast conspiracy, like a cross between Thatcher and Blofeld. Jodie Foster's performance in Elysium might be along the lines of what I have in mind.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,447
    @00Ed, that's pretty much how I feel about the position. It needn't be a hardcore, ninja-esque femme fatale, it just needs to be a woman with immense power and nothing short of a small army behind her plans, ready to stop Bond.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Kristen Scott Thomas was amazing in only God forgives (disappointing movie overall) but her character with a bit if tweaking is easy to imagine fitting nicely as a Bond villain.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,447
    I was throwing around the idea of having a female main villain in an upcoming film - perhaps even 'Bond 24' - on other sites regarding the latest 'Bond 24' news to see what the general public felt about it, and most of them stated that they loved the idea, particularly Tilda Swinton.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I was throwing around the idea of having a female main villain in an upcoming film - perhaps even 'Bond 24' - on other sites regarding the latest 'Bond 24' news to see what the general public felt about it, and most of them stated that they loved the idea, particularly Tilda Swinton.

    That's not a bad shout.
  • Posts: 686
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I was throwing around the idea of having a female main villain in an upcoming film - perhaps even 'Bond 24' - on other sites regarding the latest 'Bond 24' news to see what the general public felt about it, and most of them stated that they loved the idea, particularly Tilda Swinton.

    Maybe Bond 24 can take place on Island in Thailand. :))
  • Posts: 12,506
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I was throwing around the idea of having a female main villain in an upcoming film - perhaps even 'Bond 24' - on other sites regarding the latest 'Bond 24' news to see what the general public felt about it, and most of them stated that they loved the idea, particularly Tilda Swinton.

    That's not a bad shout.

    Tilda Swinton would be an excellent villain!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2013 Posts: 12,459
    Kristen Scott Thomas is excellent indeed.
    Tilda, yes. Helen Mirren is still my first choice, though.
    Like others have stated, I don't want a martial arts demonstrating, super fit evil female villain - I want a powerful, charismatic and lethal female villain. An actress who has the strength of personality and acting chops to make this role memorable. And let's hope the script does her justice.

    Having just written that, I realize of course that Logan may well not have a female head villain for Bond 24. But it is still a good idea and I hope it happens soon enough. I would love for the head of Quantum to be a female, and I do hope they bring Quantum back in a good way, with a smart script.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,779
    I think we won't see a female Bond villain for a while as we had one relatively recently in TWINE with Elektra King. Though, I suppose it was almost 14 years ago...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Well, Elektra was rather memorable but she was not as heavyweight a villain as what I am proposing. I think we are due for one. If not Bond 24 maybe Bond 25. Just a thought.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,447
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think we won't see a female Bond villain for a while as we had one relatively recently in TWINE with Elektra King. Though, I suppose it was almost 14 years ago...

    Even then, people argue who the main villain in the film was, Elektra or Renard, and since it seems that the latter was the main villain, we're all talking about a main female villain this time around.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,779
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think we won't see a female Bond villain for a while as we had one relatively recently in TWINE with Elektra King. Though, I suppose it was almost 14 years ago...

    Even then, people argue who the main villain in the film was, Elektra or Renard, and since it seems that the latter was the main villain, we're all talking about a main female villain this time around.

    Yes, I can see that argument though I consider Elekta as the main villain in TWINE and the puppet-master. Look at how she goes about manipulating both Bond and Renard, if any proof of her cold and calculating nature were needed.
  • Posts: 14,816
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think we won't see a female Bond villain for a while as we had one relatively recently in TWINE with Elektra King. Though, I suppose it was almost 14 years ago...

    Even then, people argue who the main villain in the film was, Elektra or Renard, and since it seems that the latter was the main villain, we're all talking about a main female villain this time around.

    Yes, I can see that argument though I consider Elekta as the main villain in TWINE and the puppet-master. Look at how she goes about manipulating both Bond and Renard, if any proof of her cold and calculating nature were needed.

    So does Michael Apted, that's what he said in interviews anyway, but in TWINE it is rather unclear. One of the main problems I have with TWINE: instead of making two main villains well and give them justice, like in FRWL (both novel and film), it goes from one to the other and does not decide. I am rather unconvinced by Elektra anyway and I would much, much rather see a female villain with more gravitas.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,779
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think we won't see a female Bond villain for a while as we had one relatively recently in TWINE with Elektra King. Though, I suppose it was almost 14 years ago...

    Even then, people argue who the main villain in the film was, Elektra or Renard, and since it seems that the latter was the main villain, we're all talking about a main female villain this time around.

    Yes, I can see that argument though I consider Elekta as the main villain in TWINE and the puppet-master. Look at how she goes about manipulating both Bond and Renard, if any proof of her cold and calculating nature were needed.

    So does Michael Apted, that's what he said in interviews anyway, but in TWINE it is rather unclear. One of the main problems I have with TWINE: instead of making two main villains well and give them justice, like in FRWL (both novel and film), it goes from one to the other and does not decide. I am rather unconvinced by Elektra anyway and I would much, much rather see a female villain with more gravitas.

    Well, I think that it was Michael Apted and his wife that rewrote the part of Elektra King in TWINE to beef up the drama of her part in the plot. Apted was a documentary director, so he was well used to drama and that is what TWINE is in many parts in between the overuse of action scenes. I think Renard was the surrogate villain at the start in order to take us off the scent of Elektra being the villain, but later the roles were reversed and it's clear that Elektra is the manipulator/dominatrix that pulls the strings of Renard to such an extent that the dying anarchist is willing to commit suicide to see her plan to irradiate the area and leave her in charge of the monopoly of oil that will result.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Well, Brosnan wasn't really "soft" in my opinion, and Sophie can act and was pretty. I just didn't like the script of TWINE.

    .

    He was. It was outacted in every scene by Marceau. But since Apteds (or Apteds wife) attempted to bring melodrama to a Bond film ended in a big wet splat for everyone. He shouldn't take the blame.

    I always think Klebb is the main villain in FRWL. Blofeld is too in the shadows.

    How about Shirley Carter in EE for the next villainess. She looks pure evil.

  • Posts: 14,816
    Klebb and Grant are the main antagonists in FRWL, most definitely. Blofeld merely gives green light to an operation he did not organised himself.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,779
    Ludovico wrote:
    Klebb and Grant are the main antagonists in FRWL, most definitely. Blofeld merely gives green light to an operation he did not organised himself.

    Yes, most certainly. Blofeld is merely in the background just like in TB the film (and novel) too.
  • Posts: 418
    I was having a look on one of the forum's a little earlier, and there was a topic - 'Who should play the villain in Bond 24'. Quite a lot of people said that they hope the villain will be a female. Many of them think that Tilda Swinton would be an excellent choice for the main villain. Somebody even posted a picture of her looking very sinister indeed. Some other actresses mentioned were Marion Cotillard and Olivia Wilde, but quite a few other females were suggested. The most frequent male that was mentioned as a villain was Benedict Cumberbatch..
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,447
    I think know that Cumberbatch would be an excellent villain. Another little fan favorite of mine to play a villain would be Hugh Laurie. But, the only reason people seem a little turned off by the idea of a female villain appears to be it having been done lately (in TWINE) or that it may not feel right in this day and age. Bond doesn't need to fight some ninja woman and have his ass handed to him, just let her be the head of Quantum with immense power and a lot of side villains and henchman. I think it would be great.

    Makes me wonder if anyone related to the films reads these pages and thinks of our ideas...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,779
    Brian Blessed would be a great larger-than-life villain for something a bit left-field in a Craig era Bond film.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    I don't care what they say, Elektra is the main villain of TWINE. Renard is her lackey.
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