The Profession of the villain

edited April 2013 in Bond 25 Posts: 11,615
What should be the profession(s) of the villain in Bond 24 and in subsequent movies? Quite often, too often IMO, they are businessmen, which gets repetitive very quickly. We have recently seen spies of various kinds and terrorists, which I think is a nice trend. We have not seen many villains from the military, except secondary villains like Medrano. It would be interesting to have say a rogue Russian general as a badguy.
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Comments

  • Posts: 833
    Ludovico wrote:
    It would be interesting to have say a rogue Russian general as a badguy.

    Yeah, just like in Ghost Protocol.

  • Posts: 2,073
    A rogue Russian general sounds pretty boring to me - but pretty much anything, if done well, can be good, so it all depends on the whole story, the dialogue and the casting.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    edited September 2013 Posts: 12,348
    QA rogue Russian general - just look to General Orlov and General Koskov. For a new take on the subject just see the rogue Communist-fanatic villain General Yevgeny Yuskovich of John Gardner's The Man From Barbarossa (1991). I'd love to see this made into a film - after Skyfall anything's possible!
  • Posts: 833
    I think he should be a landscape gardener.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    I think he should be a landscape gardener.

    Different.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    I think he should be a landscape gardener.

    ...of YOLT's Garden of Death - it could work!
  • Posts: 11,615
    Ludovico wrote:
    It would be interesting to have say a rogue Russian general as a badguy.

    Yeah, just like in Ghost Protocol.

    I haven't seen. I guess it is out then.
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think he should be a landscape gardener.

    ...of YOLT's Garden of Death - it could work!

    I thought the same thing. This is pretty much what Blofeld is in the novel, or uses as a cover.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    It would be interesting to have say a rogue Russian general as a badguy.

    Yeah, just like in Ghost Protocol.

    I haven't seen. I guess it is out then.

    Could you tell us more about Ghost Protocol - it sounds very interesting to me!
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,925
    I think a Russian general (even a rogue one) is one of, if not the most cliché villain choices going to be honest. Maybe some other nationality but by now Russian villians are just so overused.

    How about some kind of master thief who steals something valuable to MI6? The thief could've been hired by Quantum or somebody.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    I think a Russian general (even a rogue one) is one of, if not the most cliché villain choices going to be honest.

    How about some kind of master thief who steals something valuable to MI6? The thief could've been hired by Quantum or somebody.

    Shades of Skyfall plot there, though.

    I think the whole neo-Nazi Fourth Reich thing is more thriller trite than the rogue Russian general. It would be interesting to have a list of films featuring the rogue Russian general as a villain type.

  • Posts: 833
    Dragonpol wrote:
    It would be interesting to have a list of films featuring the rogue Russian general as a villain type.

    Well, Octopussy for one.
  • Posts: 11,615
    I think a Russian general (even a rogue one) is one of, if not the most cliché villain choices going to be honest. Maybe some other nationality but by now Russian villians are just so overused.

    How about some kind of master thief who steals something valuable to MI6? The thief could've been hired by Quantum or somebody.

    I guess I miss Russian badguys. With the Cold Peace, I think it is time they come back. They don't have to be from the military of course. And of course there are plenty of other nations they can come from. Well, pretty much all the former Eastern block.

    A master thief is interesting, although it would need to be well defined to show this nemesis does not belong to crime fiction. It depends what he steals. Information has been done recently in Skyfall, but rare weaponry has not been done for a while.

    Or the villain could be a former high ranking member of the secret services of a small nation, like Sweden or Norway, an exceptional nature eager to go freelance out of ambitions. Not like Silva who was motivated on revenge, more like Blofeld was in the novels, an evil genius living from a small town in a small country, whose hubris was way too big for it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    Dragonpol wrote:
    It would be interesting to have a list of films featuring the rogue Russian general as a villain type.

    Well, Octopussy for one.

    Yes, I mentioned that above with my General Orlov reference. I was thinking of outside of the James Bond franchise specifically.

  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,925
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think a Russian general (even a rogue one) is one of, if not the most cliché villain choices going to be honest.

    How about some kind of master thief who steals something valuable to MI6? The thief could've been hired by Quantum or somebody.

    Shades of Skyfall plot there, though.

    In a way but what's being stolen and why could be completely different. Instead of information, it could be a piece of tech or weaponry. Maybe a spy plane?

    Also, the person who'd stolen the McGuffin would be a professional thief who does these sort of jobs all of the time, not just a hired gun like Patrice in Skyfall.

    He'd also be focused on much more than Patrice was as he'd more or less be the main villain until Quantum show up towards the end.
  • Posts: 833
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    It would be interesting to have a list of films featuring the rogue Russian general as a villain type.

    Well, Octopussy for one.

    Yes, I mentioned that above with my General Orlov reference. I was thinking of outside of the James Bond franchise specifically.

    Ah, I see. So I guess The Living Daylights is out then.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    edited April 2013 Posts: 12,348
    See this excellent TV tropes webpage here for more on renegade Russian generals:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RenegadeRussian
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    It would be interesting to have a list of films featuring the rogue Russian general as a villain type.

    Well, Octopussy for one.

    Yes, I mentioned that above with my General Orlov reference. I was thinking of outside of the James Bond franchise specifically.

    Ah, I see. So I guess The Living Daylights is out then.


    Yes, it is.

    MOD EDIT: Watch the double posts.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK BeyondJamesBond.kinja.com
    Posts: 5,746
    We could do an African warlord-type, seen in Casino Royale. Maybe a connection between B24 and the guy in CR could be made. Nice continuity.
  • Posts: 833
    Dragonpol wrote:
    See this excellent TV tropes webpage here for more on renegade Russian generals:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RenegadeRussian


    Pretty much answered your own question there, huh? Interestingly, most are Bond films.


  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    Dragonpol wrote:
    See this excellent TV tropes webpage here for more on renegade Russian generals:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RenegadeRussian


    Pretty much answered your own question there, huh? Interestingly, most are Bond films.


    Yes, I suppose I did there, though I'm still of course keen to hear of new films also.
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think a Russian general (even a rogue one) is one of, if not the most cliché villain choices going to be honest.

    How about some kind of master thief who steals something valuable to MI6? The thief could've been hired by Quantum or somebody.

    Shades of Skyfall plot there, though.

    In a way but what's being stolen and why could be completely different. Instead of information, it could be a piece of tech or weaponry. Maybe a spy plane?

    Also, the person who'd stolen the McGuffin would be a professional thief who does these sort of jobs all of the time, not just a hired gun like Patrice in Skyfall.

    He'd also be focused on much more than Patrice was as he'd more or less be the main villain until Quantum show up towards the end.

    It could definitely work. And Silva was a former MI6 agent turned cyberterrorist, so it is far away from the profession of this hypothetical villain.
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    See this excellent TV tropes webpage here for more on renegade Russian generals:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RenegadeRussian


    Pretty much answered your own question there, huh? Interestingly, most are Bond films.


    Okay, okay, way too many really. Unless they come up with a completely new twist.

    Another idea: an academic, a chemist or a physician, turned WMD guru.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    How about an ex-actor turned serial killer - my namesake David Dragonpol in John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993)? It would be the perfect antidote to our celebrity-obsessed culture. As alwauys, Gardner was way ahead of his time and very prescient here.
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    How about an ex-actor turned serial killer - my namesake David Dragonpol in John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993)? It would be the perfect antidote to our celebrity-obsessed culture. As alwauys, Gardner was way ahead of his time and very prescient here.

    Not sure about a serial killer. I don't like them in crime fiction (except in very rare instances), where they have become a real plague.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    How about an ex-actor turned serial killer - my namesake David Dragonpol in John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993)? It would be the perfect antidote to our celebrity-obsessed culture. As alwauys, Gardner was way ahead of his time and very prescient here.

    Not sure about a serial killer. I don't like them in crime fiction (except in very rare instances), where they have become a real plague.

    Yes, I know they have, but this would be done in a much more classy way - it's a Bond film after all, they always come up with an original twist in the end, don't they?
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    How about an ex-actor turned serial killer - my namesake David Dragonpol in John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993)? It would be the perfect antidote to our celebrity-obsessed culture. As alwauys, Gardner was way ahead of his time and very prescient here.

    Not sure about a serial killer. I don't like them in crime fiction (except in very rare instances), where they have become a real plague.

    Yes, I know they have, but this would be done in a much more classy way - it's a Bond film after all, they always come up with an original twist in the end, don't they?

    Unless you come up with some original twist to make it work, I will remain sceptical about this idea. Serial killers are a police matter, not MI6 or any intelligence service. Yes, some Bond villains had some characteristics of serial killers, Red Grant was, in a way. but this was done very subtly.
  • Posts: 11,925
    Maybe a serial killer who was targeting spies? An ex military man who's that opposed to what the government is doing now that he starts murdering their agents, and Bond becomes a target.

    Sort of like TLD meets TMWTGG.

    The problem is I can't see much globe trotting coming out of the idea because if he's targeting British agents then the serial killer would likely be based in London.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,348
    Yes, but we've got David Dratgonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but we've got David Dratgonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.

    Dragonpol - I find a lot of your posts interesting but please do stop banging on about Never Send Flowers.

    EON are not going to make any of the Gardner books anytime soon and if they did there are far better Gardner stories than this which came in the post Win Lose or Die era of Gardner when he had long since run out of interest and inspiration.

    Ain't never going to happen old son and frankly thank Christ for that.
  • Posts: 11,615
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but we've got David Dratgonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.

    I never had interest in Fleming's continuators, I would rather have Eon use what's left of Fleming material. I am not so much opposed to it as sceptical of the results. They have used the work of continuators officiously, of course, but still there is plenty of Fleming to work from as a starting point, including old ideas they could twist enough to bring them in movies with some originality.
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