SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

edited December 2014 in SPECTRE Posts: 11,119
As I am pretty certain that EON Productions has got some 'spy accounts' on here (I found it quite flabbergasting that many of my wishes, I have posed on this forum, have come reality: From a memorable Bond villain to a truly Thunderball-esque way of filming (Roger Deakins). From slowly getting rid of Judi Dench's version of M to a nuanced re-introduction of Q and Moneypenny. And finally, NOT a Bond film with a clichéd car chase in it.

So, now it's time to gather your TOP 5 of elements Bond 24 must have, to even undo those tiny bit of negative reviews 'Skyfall' got. And, please be serious, as I am quite certain EON Productions is talking about this in their screenplay brainstorm sessions ;-).

My TOP 5!:

01) The return of Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Allthough I think Raoul Silva was a memorable villain, it reminded perhaps too many people of Batman's The Joker. So let's return Blofeld. Blofeld is a true BOND villain that can't be compared with any other franchise. It's time to re-introduce the character in a smart, realistic way. Maybe he could be played by Christoph Waltz?

02) Re-introduce SPECTRE. You can make a very nice story in which QUANTUM will slowly be transformed into SPECTRE. As you know, the secret syndicate QUANTUM got revealed by James Bond in an opera theatre no less. Not so smart Mr White and Dominic Greene! Perhaps now we can see that QUANTUM needs to be secretively re-organized. Perhaps as a cover company in the top floor of the Chicago Sears Tower?

03) Has anyone seen the 1966 Formula One movie 'Grand Prix'? Why not featuring a Formula One racer in it, that is a member of SPECTRE, but that is endangering SPECTRE's secrecy with his star status? Great to see him killed by a SPECTRE operative during a Formula One race in QATAR. You can make some awesome cinematography with this!

04) Time to bring the Daniel Kleinman gunbarrel back at the start. Many people missed it. But now MI6 has become a carefully scrutinized secret service, run by a new 'M', it's time for 007 to execute a decent mission. The past three Bond films were really about the introduction of James Bond 007, a revived, more realistic MI6, a new Q, a new M and a new Moneypenny. Bond 24 should be Thunderball-like Bond, opening with a loud bang from a new gunbarrel sequence. At the start!

05) Bring back director Sam Mendes, cinematographer Roger Deakins, music composer Thomas Newman and screenplay writer John Logan (Logan has already been hired). With these true masters of cinema, another dreamcast can be assembled, perhaps with actors like Christoph Waltz (Blofeld), Kathy Bates or Glenn Close (as an updated version of Rosa Klebb), Carice van Houten (The new Bond-girl) and Luis Guzman (as a new henchman).

A few other, less important, elements) Bring back some snow in a Bond film? I would love to see the entire 2nd part of Bond 24 being set in the snow (New Zealand Alps, or again Swiss Alps, Sankt Moritz is a very Bond-ian city. Even Sir Roger Moore has a house there). And I truly believe it's time to have Daniel Craig on skies now. We haven't seen Daniel Craig in a white naval uniform. Nice idea? The first half of the movie could be set on more exotic locations, like Qatar (Formula One), Curacao, Indonesia, with an opening credit sequence in Sydney?

Now, what would your TOP 5 of elements be to make Bond 24 even better than 'SKYFALL'? Before you post yours, let us properly discuss each others TOP 5 first. That makes this topic even more credible.

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Comments

  • I'd say Blofeld yes, SPECTRE no. I'd say just have him working solo or have him as the head of Quantum. I don't see the point in introducing a new organisation then ditching it for the old one. Ditching it for nothing though, would be fine. So either have him on his own or have him with Quantum imo.

    Mendes did well but Bond 24 will probably be fine if he doesn't come back, I wouldn't say he's essential.

    I'd say don't bring back Newman and I think many on here will agree. Since that was one of the few problems about SF most reviewers had I'm not sure that would help tackle criticism either. I think bring back Arnold or get somebody new.

    They definetly need the gunbarrel back at the start.

    I'm a big F1 fan and I'd love to see it included in a Bond film but again, I wouldn't say it's something the film must have. Anyway, onto my list.

    1) A better score.

    2) Better fist fights.

    3) A memorable henchman.

    4) A proper gunbarrel at the start (not the QOS/SF one).

    5) Not really an improvement, but I'd like a straight forward Bond film. Bond is given his mission, he goes and does his mission. I don't want anymore "this time it's personal", and I don't want M being used more again.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 136
    1) grand action-adventure in the style of GF, TB, Spy...surely we're there now? We've had 3 films ending the same ("I'm James Bond now!")..time to deliver.
    2) front gun-barrel - obviously
    3) Blofeld - yeah, I'd be up for this in line with how they've reinvented the rest. He is a key Fleming-Bond property/icon after all. Perhaps an 'origin' story that gives rise to SPECTRE....?
    4) agreed on no more Newman/score...fine, but no more thanks
    5) more of a craftsman director than an auteur. A Campbell rather than a Mendes..no disrespect to Campbell

    Disagree on snow (I can't imagine Daniel on skis!) and Formula One (sports in movies just looks worse than regular sports coverage, I think. Didn't work in Iron Man 2)

    I have faith in Logan though.

    P.S J Wright's marvellous Leiter to return
  • Posts: 5,745
    I agree about the score and having a more 'straight-forward' Bond film, so here's my Top 5 outside of those:

    1. The babe-Bond-girl to stay around a bit longer, unlike Eve and Severine. You can keep the sacrificial lamb, but 2 Bond girls never hurt.
    2. The return of Felix Leiter ala Jeffery Wright, especially since Bond is 'set up' now.
    3. Quantum to return, so in 10 years time there is some continuity to Craig's series.
    4. Less, yes.. even less CGI. The helicopters especially in SF seemed like the classic 'we'll do it in post' moment. The dragons made sense though, don't but Danny in real danger.
    5. More action, or at least spread out. Big PTS, mission briefing, henchmen fight (but they live), build up, climax, and then henchmen returns at the end. I think that's an easy and effective way to make them memorable.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,168
    1) A better score.

    2) Better fist fights.

    3) A memorable henchman.

    4) A proper gunbarrel at the start (not the QOS/SF one).

    5) Not really an improvement, but I'd like a straight forward Bond film. Bond is given his mission, he goes and does his mission. I don't want anymore "this time it's personal", and I don't want M being used more again.

    Quite agree. Especially no 4/5.

    I'm not sure about F1 turning up in B24. Maybe if Bond was following a villain, kinda of like CR's Body World Exhibit, but no to Bond actually driving one.

    Edit -

    A dinner scene between Bond and the villain.
  • Posts: 948
    My main baulk at the Bond character is the loss of his more cultured side in Brosnans films. I like the small 5 second character nods, like ordering a Vesper, Connery saying "mouton Rothschild is a claret"

    So I guess I'd love to see Bond tricking a baddie with his knowledge if food and wine, or just ordering something.
  • Matt007 wrote:
    My main baulk at the Bond character is the loss of his more cultured side in Brosnans films. I like the small 5 second character nods, like ordering a Vesper, Connery saying "mouton Rothschild is a claret"

    So I guess I'd love to see Bond tricking a baddie with his knowledge if food and wine, or just ordering something.

    I do agree about the 'cultured side'. Craig should become a little less bad-ass superspy and a bit more elegant, sophisticated when it comes to food, wine, etc.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 13,256
    Could this not be discussed in the Bond 24 wish list thread?

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4193/bond-24-wish-list/p11#Item_316

    Very worthwhile talking about though. Bond sharing his knowledge of food and wine would be nice, while at Blades with M even...
  • I agree the SF gunbarrel was crap (same for QOS), CR gunbarrel was awesome, I wonder why they didn't work it out similar in Skyfall.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    Could this not be discussed in the Bond 24 wish list thread?

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4193/bond-24-wish-list/p11#Item_316

    Very worthwhile talking about though. Bond sharing his knowledge of food and wine would be nice, while at Blades with M even...

    I think by sticking to a TOP 5, you get a much clearer, streamlined discussion about what Bond 24 should have. I am also planning to count the most favourite 'wishlist elements' in each TOP 5, so that people really know what should be improved in the first place, then 2nd place, 3rd place, and so on...
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,256
    I am also planning to count the most favourite 'wishlist elements' in each TOP 5, so that people really know what should be improved in the first place, then 2nd place, 3rd place, and so on...

    A very nice idea. I'm eager to see if people agree with the order of things.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    I am also planning to count the most favourite 'wishlist elements' in each TOP 5, so that people really know what should be improved in the first place, then 2nd place, 3rd place, and so on...

    A very nice idea. I'm eager to see if people agree with the order of things.

    So Samuel001, come on, give your TOP 5 too ;-).
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,168
    royale65 wrote:
    1) A better score.

    2) Better fist fights.

    3) A memorable henchman.

    4) A proper gunbarrel at the start (not the QOS/SF one).

    5) Not really an improvement, but I'd like a straight forward Bond film. Bond is given his mission, he goes and does his mission. I don't want anymore "this time it's personal", and I don't want M being used more again.

    Quite agree. Especially no 4/5.

    I'm not sure about F1 turning up in B24. Maybe if Bond was following a villain, kinda of like CR's Body World Exhibit, but no to Bond actually driving one.

    Edit -

    A dinner scene between Bond and the villain.

    In that case @Gustav_Graves

    1) Dinner Scene with villain

    2) Better fist fights

    3) Proper gunbarrel

    4) Snow baby!

    5) Same as @thelivingdaylights
  • Posts: 948
    Dinner scene - perfect. I saw an interview with Maibaum who said you wouldn't get away with the "red wine with fish" anymore but I disagree. People are more food and wine literate in general than ever.

    The only time Brosnans did this was when he ordered a 61 Bollinger in DAD

    Campbell seems to get this aspect of Bonds character. There are numerous references in CR
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,256
    To list them in a ranking order is very differcult but a dinner scene, Bond in his naval uniform and a fist fight with a villain would be a great start.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 2,837
    1. A better script (I have never been a fan of Purvis and Wade)

    2. A better score. Bring Arnold back.

    3. At least one more huge action setpiece than SF.

    4. No more reboooting Bond.

    5. More outdoor scenes (in exotic places). Keep the Pinewood-filming to a minimum.
  • Posts: 203
    Zekidk wrote:
    1. A better script (I have never been a fan of Purvis and Wade)

    2. A better score. Bring Arnold back.

    3. At least one more huge action setpiece than SF.

    4. No more reboooting Bond.

    5. More outdoor scenes (in exotic places). Keep the Pinewood-filming to a minimum.

    definetly agree on point 3. SF sorely lacked another big action set piece in the middle. could have been in the tube, hanging off of it or something ...
  • 1. Gun Barrel back where it belongs
    2. Bond shows his connoisseur side of fine living, food, drinks, tailoring etc
    3. A larger than life fantasy villain / henchman combo
    4. The 007 tune!
    5. Bond has at least two Bond girls and gets to finish the movie bedding the main one.
  • I really don't have a top five as such, but one thing I would like to see is another gun barrel sequence that is incorporated into the opening sequence, a la Casino Royale. I was half expecting that at the beginning of Skyfall when Bond got shot; I thought it might have been interesting take on the gun barrel moment of a Bond film.
  • Posts: 406
    1. A proper gunbarrel in the right place
    2. "shaken not stirred"
    3. M giving bond a mission and only seen then or at the very end saying well done 007
    4. Bond and Felix working together
    5. Ski sequence
    6. Commander Bond, in his navy uniform

    Not concerned about Blofeld/SPECTRE as I assume thats the direction we're going in with Quantum and the unknown head
  • Posts: 1,492
    If Eon is listening and its damn conceited to think that is...

    If Eon did follow out your suggestions...

    There would still be characters on here who would bitch and whinge. Eon wouldn't win whatever it did.

    We got a film perfect as it is. If some haven't got the imagination to embrace what Eon and Mendes are doing then go watch Austin Powers.
  • actonsteve wrote:
    If Eon is listening and its damn conceited to think that is...

    If Eon did follow out your suggestions...

    There would still be characters on here who would bitch and whinge. Eon wouldn't win whatever it did.

    We got a film perfect as it is. If some haven't got the imagination to embrace what Eon and Mendes are doing then go watch Austin Powers.

    Hey, I embraced 'Skyfall' fully okay ;-)!? I adore this movie. If you collect the topics I have made recently about 'Skyfall', then you would see I am a huge fan of 'Skyfall'.

    There is always something to moan about. More importantly, there are always winers who think James Bond movies are stupid, when they actually never really watched one.

    Thing is, for this topic I just want to collect some ideas for Bond 24 in a neat, orderly way. And we should always try to make the best Bond movie ever! With Brosnan, the producers were on some kind of stunned autopilot. But with Craig, we finally have this beautiful mojo, in which two Bond films, 'Skyfall' and 'Casino Royale' are true masterpieces. Now let Bond 24 be one of them as well.
  • One of the things I love about Craig's run is how they take familiar elements from the series and tweak them a bit. So here's what I'd like to see:

    1) Have Leiter be the ally for Bond 24 - much like DN or TB have Bond and Felix working as partners together for most of the film. Because this can lead to...

    2) Show Bond and Leiter relaxing together like they do in the books. They don't have to have deep conversations but it would be nice to see them have a real friendship as opposed to a partnership of convenience when they just happen to be after the same thing like in CR or QoS.

    3) Spend some time in a luxurious, tropical location. One thing that was missing from SF was the "escapist" location that makes the film more fun. We haven't had that since The Bahamas in CR, and if the film comes out in November then a beautifully filmed warm climate is even more appealing.

    4) A return to the deferential respect that Bond had for M in the early Connery films. It helps to ground Bond and make him seem like much more of a competent agent (although I read an article that most characters are "required" to show a bit of rebelliousness towards authority so that the prime demographic of 16-25 year old boys relate to them more - which means more box office!).

    5) A score that incorporates the title theme into it, and mostly uses two main themes to give the film a distinct personality. Short of CR, the last films have soundtracks comprised of a HUGE number of individual tracks that aren't really related to each other or sound like each other. Compare that to any Barry-scored film. I know there was only one John Barry, but at least TRY to give the films an identity of their own through repeated themes.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,985
    In no particular order :
    1) Gadgets that are cool to see but that are not a critical device to the plot (like in GF : Bond is captured after a display of all the DB5's gadgets)
    2) Epic and unrealistic fight scene/escape scene/other action scene which is not a critical device to the plot (like in YOLT : Bond escapes dozens of goons and then is knocked inconscious)
    #1 and #2 means I want a strong story that would still stand on its own even after removing the 007 elements. No gadget that saves the day like in a parody.
    3) A lair for the villain which is a real, large set (like TSWLM), no green screen CGI (like, well, SF). "Money on the screen".
    4) A henchman ... with a backstory (like no movie before - I don't mean Jaws's love story, something else). That would be the surprise of the movie, this time it's personal, but not for Bond for the Nth time, but for the guy we're used to see completely mute for the whole movie.
    5) Yes, Spectre again. But not in plain light, a bit like at the beginning of TLD, when Smersh is thought to be the real threat, but exists only as a name on a paper.
  • actonsteve wrote:
    If Eon is listening and its damn conceited to think that is...

    If Eon did follow out your suggestions...

    There would still be characters on here who would bitch and whinge. Eon wouldn't win whatever it did.

    We got a film perfect as it is. If some haven't got the imagination to embrace what Eon and Mendes are doing then go watch Austin Powers.

    F*cking hell some people won't be happy unless everyone thinks everything happening with the Bond series now is perfect will they.

    I really liked SF but yes I think there were things that could've been improved on. Obviously because I have a few problems with the film it means I should go and watch Austin Powers! Makes sense!
  • Posts: 5,745
    actonsteve wrote:
    If Eon is listening and its damn conceited to think that is...

    If Eon did follow out your suggestions...

    There would still be characters on here who would bitch and whinge. Eon wouldn't win whatever it did.

    We got a film perfect as it is. If some haven't got the imagination to embrace what Eon and Mendes are doing then go watch Austin Powers.

    F*cking hell some people won't be happy unless everyone thinks everything happening with the Bond series now is perfect will they.

    I really liked SF but yes I think there were things that could've been improved on. Obviously because I have a few problems with the film it means I should go and watch Austin Powers! Makes sense!

    Every film in the series could have had some extra work done.
    I too liked Skyfall but will admit that some things could improve. Nothing is ever perfect.

    I agree @thelivingroyale being critical of Skyfall and hating Skyfall are two very different things. It's good to be critical. That's how things evolve and grow.
    Clearly his maturity is an example of when someone isn't critical enough on themselves and don't mature properly.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Why bring in SPECTRE when we have Quantum? Blofeld has had his time.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Why bring in SPECTRE when we have Quantum? Blofeld has had his time.

    My thoughts exactly. Plus, the producers have been quoted saying essentially why tread on the past (risk messing it up) when you can create something new and different.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 42
    Some great points! Personally I would like to see the following:

    1) I don't think they should bring Blofeld back but introduce a character influenced by him. So someone mysterious and who is not revealed until the end of Bond 25. They should also be head of Quantum as they then don't have to spend valuable film time introducing the organization that this "villain" is head of. I think it would end Craig's tenure beautifully if they used Quantum in Bond 24 and 25. Not to have a sequel but where Bond defeats another sub-Quantum villain in B24 but that may help him reach the leader in B25.

    2) I am seriously craving a proper winter themed Bond! Not just an obligatory ski scene but where the movie actually takes place in a snow location. Maybe even the place that the head of Quantum resides. Having said that a modern, killer ski scene/chase would be a must! Also, I think a great rock climbing moment/piece would fit Craig perfectly!

    3) As others have said, more Felix. Where he is part of the story and not just a drop in character, much like he was in the novel Live and Let Die. They keep partnering Bond with a female but really Leiter is who should be filling that role.

    Can only come up with three for now...
  • I'd say-

    1. Gunbarrel back at the beginning. It's time.
    2. Girl in the end. 3 films in a row now, not what I want.
    3. A big, ambitious Ken Adam kind of set. Those are always fun even when the movie stinks.
    4. More new and unvisited locations. Great to see a new location in Shanghai. City looked amazing at night.
    5. Normal flirtations with Moneypenny like we got this time, a more assured Q, and really looking to seeing Fiennes again as M. Given what they are paying him, I will be surprised to see his involvement as limited as Lee and Brown, very surprised.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,042
    Why bring in SPECTRE when we have Quantum? Blofeld has had his time.

    Does Eon even have the rights to SPECTRE?
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