Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Worst ending of any 007 movie. What they should've done? Let him drive off into the sunset with the kid and Swann with him. You hear him say, "I'm retiring, and I mean it." A double meaning, right? Then DCs handwriting comes on the screen, "Thanks for joining me on this journey...Daniel." Then he writes: "PS: James Bond will return." Fade out.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Worst ending of the entire franchise.Bond dies because Craig was selfish and had too much power over Babs and Michael.He most likely saw Logan and said “ I’ll have some of that please “.

    Constructing an entire Bond movie plot over the fact that Bond HAS to die at the end was ridiculous.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited June 2023 Posts: 8,916
    @AstonLotus et al, you don't know how films are made.

    No one person makes a Decision for a three hundred million dollar film.

    Craig may've said in 2006, or whenever, that he'd love for his tenure to end with James Bond dying, but every choice in a film, especially a huge and risky climax is vetted by the entire creative team, including the distributors who have to sell this film in the worldwide market.

    If the creative team didn't think this was a viable and satisfying conclusion, they wouldn't have done it.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,584
    I respect the fans who enjoy it, more power to you, I'm jealous if anything. It's got worse on each viewing for me unfortunately
  • Posts: 1,038
    I think one of the biggest problems, for those of us that didn't like the ending, is it kind of sullies the Craig era. Someone on here said "now, when I watch Casino Royale, I know how it all ends". And I get that. You can't enjoy him getting out of scrapes because you know he's going to get bombed to f*ck anyway.
    We already had a full circle, nicely wrapped up ending in SP. Maddy echoing Vespas's words from the original film, and Bond making his choice between the service and civilian life, throwing his gun away. Although it wasn't very Fleming, (I could never imagine the book Bond throwing his gun away in front of a villain), but at least it ended with hope.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2023 Posts: 3,405
    I have no problem with the ending really, count me in here, if anything, it could be handled so much better, but in terms of Bond dying, I have no problem with it really.

    For me, my problems or my issues with the film are a lot more bigger than the ending alone, even if the ending was different, I doubt this film would've been a lot better, there are so many issues with the film that I really have other than that ending alone, for me, the film in general needs a complete rewrite (in my opinion).

    Actually, I'd rather have Bond die, than to have him be a family man really, that's probably the most un-Bondian thing that they could've ever done, I know it's just Craig's Bond, but he's still playing James Bond (the character) in general, so seeing him with his family would be a bit off (in character) and out of character.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,916
    I think one of the biggest problems, for those of us that didn't like the ending, is it kind of sullies the Craig era. Someone on here said "now, when I watch Casino Royale, I know how it all ends". And I get that. You can't enjoy him getting out of scrapes because you know he's going to get bombed to f*ck anyway.
    We already had a full circle, nicely wrapped up ending in SP. Maddy echoing Vespas's words from the original film, and Bond making his choice between the service and civilian life, throwing his gun away. Although it wasn't very Fleming, (I could never imagine the book Bond throwing his gun away in front of a villain), but at least it ended with hope.

    I understand this feeling, however, I have the opposite experience: I find that his death elevated the other films, including Spectre, which I didn’t think possible. When I watch them back to back (one/night), it ends up being Joseph Campbell’s Hero Cycle. I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).
  • I love NTTD. Took cojones to end like that. Defo not formulaic film making like most of modern blockbusters.
  • WhyBondWhyBond USA
    Posts: 66
    No Time to Die had a bigger problem that lead up to the ending. It's the whole non-sense plot that seems to borrow from Metal Gear (Foxdie) and some bits of Everything or Nothing (nanobots). The EoN game handled the nanotechnology stuff better.

    I would rather have Bonds lover and daughter unfortunately die on the island and have Bond suffer injuries that leads to partial amnesia in which he becomes the 007 we know of living on the edge. Knowing he lost it all so he starts to develop a coping mechanism of living a hedonistic lifestyle to deal with the loss of his family. And there you have it. The true prequel of how the man became the 007 the world is accustomed to.
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    edited June 2023 Posts: 6,894
    I love NTTD. Took cojones to end like that. Defo not formulaic film making like most of modern blockbusters.

    No Time to Die, you've got big cojones. You come here, to my theater, with a script like that, ending your story with Bond's death. But you should know something. I have yet to play you for my customers, so nobody has to see Bond blown up.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited June 2023 Posts: 8,916
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Best trolling thread on the site. I applaud Pierce2Daniel for his masterful trolling. I'm sure the ghost of Ian Fleming would agree with your first post.

    Not!!!!!!

    Isn’t your post the definition of trolling?

    @Pierce2Daniel wasn't making this comment to gaslight. He means what he said.

    Haven’t we learned yet; it’s been two years since this film was released.

    Bond died.

    Some ppl love this concept and how it was executed.

    Others didn’t mind the idea of Bond dying, but didn’t like the execution.

    And some fans hated both the idea and the execution.

    No one is right.

    No one is wrong.

    But accusing someone of trolling because they happen to feel that this is the best ending, THAT is trolling…
    What they should've done? Let him drive off into the sunset with the kid and Swann with him. You hear him say, "I'm retiring, and I mean it." A double meaning, right? Then DCs handwriting comes on the screen, "Thanks for joining me on this journey...Daniel." Then he writes: "PS: James Bond will return." Fade out.

    … and this is why you will never be hired to write a Bond film, 😂….
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,083
    peter wrote: »
    I think one of the biggest problems, for those of us that didn't like the ending, is it kind of sullies the Craig era. Someone on here said "now, when I watch Casino Royale, I know how it all ends". And I get that. You can't enjoy him getting out of scrapes because you know he's going to get bombed to f*ck anyway.
    We already had a full circle, nicely wrapped up ending in SP. Maddy echoing Vespas's words from the original film, and Bond making his choice between the service and civilian life, throwing his gun away. Although it wasn't very Fleming, (I could never imagine the book Bond throwing his gun away in front of a villain), but at least it ended with hope.

    I understand this feeling, however, I have the opposite experience: I find that his death elevated the other films, including Spectre, which I didn’t think possible. When I watch them back to back (one/night), it ends up being Joseph Campbell’s Hero Cycle. I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    I like how the beginning in Matera (when it looks like Bond is accepting death in the Aston) foreshadows the ending.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,916
    Oh yes @echo … Agreed… I hadn’t seen that look in Craig-Bond’s eyes since QOS as he and Camille are surrounded by an inferno, and death seemed their only option.

    Craig never strayed too far away from a man with an unconscious death wish….
  • edited June 2023 Posts: 2,129
    Another day, another debate over NTTD’s ending.
    WhyBond wrote: »
    No Time to Die had a bigger problem that lead up to the ending. It's the whole non-sense plot that seems to borrow from Metal Gear (Foxdie) and some bits of Everything or Nothing (nanobots). The EoN game handled the nanotechnology stuff better.

    Holy sh*t you’re right. I haven’t played EON in years, but I completely forgot the plot of that game revolves around Nanobots. Plus now that I think of it, Primo reminds me of the protagonist from Goldeneye Rogue Agent with his modified eye. I really ought to play both those games then watch NTTD again after that.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,584
    echo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I think one of the biggest problems, for those of us that didn't like the ending, is it kind of sullies the Craig era. Someone on here said "now, when I watch Casino Royale, I know how it all ends". And I get that. You can't enjoy him getting out of scrapes because you know he's going to get bombed to f*ck anyway.
    We already had a full circle, nicely wrapped up ending in SP. Maddy echoing Vespas's words from the original film, and Bond making his choice between the service and civilian life, throwing his gun away. Although it wasn't very Fleming, (I could never imagine the book Bond throwing his gun away in front of a villain), but at least it ended with hope.

    I understand this feeling, however, I have the opposite experience: I find that his death elevated the other films, including Spectre, which I didn’t think possible. When I watch them back to back (one/night), it ends up being Joseph Campbell’s Hero Cycle. I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    I like how the beginning in Matera (when it looks like Bond is accepting death in the Aston) foreshadows the ending.

    Good spot mate. I love that moment but stupidly I've never made the connection to the ending. Nice foreshadowing there
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    All I know is, the first 75% of this movie is fine- the last 25% is the worst of the series IMO. I'll never watch the last part again.
  • 3
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I love NTTD. Took cojones to end like that. Defo not formulaic film making like most of modern blockbusters.

    No Time to Die, you've got big cojones. You come here, to my theater, with a script like that, ending your story with Bond's death. But you should know something. I have yet to play you for my customers, so nobody has to see Bond blown up.

    love your witty retort but we will have to agree to disagree( not something that ate me, another LTK reference)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,070
    peter wrote: »
    @AstonLotus et al, you don't know how films are made.

    No one person makes a Decision for a three hundred million dollar film.

    Craig may've said in 2006, or whenever, that he'd love for his tenure to end with James Bond dying, but every choice in a film, especially a huge and risky climax is vetted by the entire creative team, including the distributors who have to sell this film in the worldwide market.

    If the creative team didn't think this was a viable and satisfying conclusion, they wouldn't have done it.

    This is correct. In fact, killing Bond was actually suggested for Bond 24, and Barbara immediately vetoed it in that instance. She and Michael weren’t incapable of saying no to Craig. It’s all about the timing and where everyone’s head space was. By the time Bond 25 was about to roll around, Barbara and Michael felt it was the right time to go for that story and went for it.

    Fact is, there are a subset of Bond fans who were never going to like the ending of Bond dying no matter what. It doesn’t matter how well written, directed or acted Bond’s death could have been done. It’s simply a no-go as far as they’re concerned. That’s those fans’ problem, not Eon’s.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2023 Posts: 17,702

    Fact is, there are a subset of Bond fans who were never going to like the ending of Bond dying no matter what. It doesn’t matter how well written, directed or acted Bond’s death could have been done. It’s simply a no-go as far as they’re concerned. That’s those fans’ problem, not Eon’s.
    I respectfully disagree. I was trying to like this movie event though I knew he died in it. I didn't at all like how M died in SF, but this movie made her death seem Shakespearean by comparison. There was absolutely no need to exceed by powers the science fiction in DAD to tell a tale like this, it could all be real world, right here & now. An evil woman with a gun killed Tracy, and it was shocking and it was sad. Nanobots & missiles kill Bond? They could have done it right, but they took the easy way out- the Star Trek era science was their killer bottle opener to this lazy ending.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,702
    I think one of the biggest problems, for those of us that didn't like the ending, is it kind of sullies the Craig era. Someone on here said "now, when I watch Casino Royale, I know how it all ends". And I get that. You can't enjoy him getting out of scrapes because you know he's going to get bombed to f*ck anyway.
    Nah, I liked CR, LOVED QOS, disliked SF, liked SP, and hated NTTD. It's a very spotty record for me, and easy to compartmentalize. My favourite Craig Bond doesn't even equal my favourite Connery, Dalton or Brosnan Bond.
  • mattjoesmattjoes At my most trollish behavior
    Posts: 6,894
    3
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I love NTTD. Took cojones to end like that. Defo not formulaic film making like most of modern blockbusters.

    No Time to Die, you've got big cojones. You come here, to my theater, with a script like that, ending your story with Bond's death. But you should know something. I have yet to play you for my customers, so nobody has to see Bond blown up.

    love your witty retort but we will have to agree to disagree( not something that ate me, another LTK reference)

    No, we won't have to, because it wasn't a retort, it was a joke/reference that isn't indicative of my opinion on the ending.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    edited June 2023 Posts: 205
    It’s very tiring people comparing that there can’t be another Bond film because he died in NTTD.
    Casino Royale so *clearly* started a new continuity, more so than any other ‘first’ film for a Bond actor ever, and they can’t get their heads around the ending of NTTD works? How thee can be another Bond Film/Adaptation, and that will be business as usual to all intents?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2023 Posts: 8,070
    chrisisall wrote: »

    Fact is, there are a subset of Bond fans who were never going to like the ending of Bond dying no matter what. It doesn’t matter how well written, directed or acted Bond’s death could have been done. It’s simply a no-go as far as they’re concerned. That’s those fans’ problem, not Eon’s.
    I respectfully disagree. I was trying to like this movie event though I knew he died in it. I didn't at all like how M died in SF, but this movie made her death seem Shakespearean by comparison. There was absolutely no need to exceed by powers the science fiction in DAD to tell a tale like this, it could all be real world, right here & now. An evil woman with a gun killed Tracy, and it was shocking and it was sad. Nanobots & missiles kill Bond? They could have done it right, but they took the easy way out- the Star Trek era science was their killer bottle opener to this lazy ending.

    With Eon Bond I tend to think of his world as being technologically a few years ahead. Sort of the not so distant future, rather than strictly our present like Fleming Bond seemed. In the grand scheme of the franchise, nanobots don’t feel as outlandish as previous films. IMO, of course.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2023 Posts: 17,702
    With Eon Bond I tend to think of his world as being technologically a few years ahead. Sort of the not so distant future, rather than strictly our present like Fleming Bond seemed. In the grand scheme of the franchise, nanobots don’t feel as outlandish as previous films. IMO, of course.
    Nanobots. Have you done any research? Do you understand how far away this technology is for even standard medical use? Or weaponization? NOT THIS CENTURY... or at least, not in any of our lifetimes...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,070
    Sounds more feasible to me than Tamahori’s stealth = magic cloaking device.
  • To be honest I think both concepts are a tad bit silly. But I at least enjoyed it in NTTD because the nanobots were exactly the type of zany concept I was waiting to see in a Craig film. It was, in a lot of ways, the proper “Bond vs Meglomanic” story fans had been waiting to see in the Craig era.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,096
    Sounds more feasible to me than Tamahori’s stealth = magic cloaking device.

    They're both utter nonsense, to be fair.
  • Posts: 3,291
    peter wrote: »
    I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    You are reading way too much into that ending mate, and giving the writers far too much credit as well. That ending was a throwaway scene, something cobbled on, tacked on at the end to try and make sense at something which they all knew deep down they shouldn't be doing.

    It was cheap and gimmicky, made even worse by tacking on the OHMSS song to it, probably to try and keep the older Bond fans on side by throwing in a retro nod to cover up the horror they were unleashing onto long term fans of the series.

    This was again reaffirmed with the `James Bond will be back' at the end of the credits.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,473
    I disliked the death ending. However, after sending away Madeline and Mathilde on the boat and going straight up video game mode is one of my favorite scenes in the franchise. Especially, the one track take up the stairs, grenades dropping, using doors and humans as shields etc. But it all comes to a poorly executed end when Safin just straight up shoots him from across the garden.

    It's like Bond went through and survived what could be the most badass action sequence in the series to just be offed by Safin with a pistol in essence.
  • Posts: 3,262
    peter wrote: »
    I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    You are reading way too much into that ending mate, and giving the writers far too much credit as well. That ending was a throwaway scene, something cobbled on, tacked on at the end to try and make sense at something which they all knew deep down they shouldn't be doing.

    It was cheap and gimmicky, made even worse by tacking on the OHMSS song to it, probably to try and keep the older Bond fans on side by throwing in a retro nod to cover up the horror they were unleashing onto long term fans of the series.

    This was again reaffirmed with the `James Bond will be back' at the end of the credits.

    While I'm not a fan of the ending myself, I kind of appreciated what they were trying to do with Madeline telling stories about Bond to Mathilde. It reminded me firstly of Logan - of course another film in which a big franchise character dies - and how the title character's heroism lives on through the comic books that the younger mutants read.

    Secondly, whether this was intentional or not, I also felt it wasn't a million miles away from what Fleming did with Bond's obituary in YOLT. You have that little aside about how Bond's adventures have been adapted as novels. It's a bit too tongue in cheek/indulgent on Fleming's part (I personally wish it hadn't been included) but there's a sense in that passage that 'James Bond lives on through these stories'. If anything I prefer how NTTD handled that idea and I think did it much more subtly/poignantly (and again, this is coming from someone who otherwise dislikes the ending).
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