Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • Posts: 1,016
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    But let us agree about one thing. The words are shown when the film is virtually over. Most people don't care about anything that comes after the final frame. So maybe we're getting worked up over something that's not really essential to the enjoyment of the film anyway.

    Having 'James Bond will return' on the screen after killing him off is only one small problem in a large list of problems when it comes to the the ending of NTTD.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited January 2023 Posts: 554
    I think there definitely would've been a sense of disbelief if Bond died purely from a gut shot. Psychologically double-tapping him with the virus was probably neccessary in addition to the sacrifice and Living vs. Existing aspect.
  • edited January 2023 Posts: 1,016
    Killing Bond off after sixty years of him being such a screen hero meant they had to tick a load of boxes. He obviously had to die whilst saving the world, and he had to die in a noble way, without fear, after defeating the villain. And he had to die in a very cinematic, almost celebratory way.
    They certainly did all that, didn't they? And you have to hand it to them that they managed to shoehorn in the circumstance of also dying whilst saving his true love, and his daughter.

    They did him in, in style.
  • edited January 2023 Posts: 386
    Daniel Craig is a serious - and remarkably talented - actor.

    The production team love him. The less decorated director and writers for NTTD would've been in awe of him.

    I wonder if James Bond's death was pitched as the only suitable way to send such a superb servant of the Bond canon on his way.

    And by extension, potentially a less effective way to climax the purely cinematic narrative of NTTD.

    Any classically trained or theatre-hardened actor jumps at the opportunity to shuffle of this mortal coil. I am by no means suggesting that Craig openly advocated for the seismic plot beat, but he's the type of actor who'd be attracted to the idea.

    If this is the case, then we are dealing with a classic case of lastmovieitis. Where the last instalment of a particular actor's tenure is more about him than Bond. These movies - think YOLT, think DAF, think AVTAK, think DAD - inevitably sink under the weight of accrued mental and physical baggage.

    Lazenby doesn't count and Dalton was cut short.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2023 Posts: 6,010
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, but there's no sacrifice in that. The nobility of it is in Bond choosing to stay on the island in order that Madeleine and Mathilde can live. It's a pointless death without him making that sacrifice.

    Exactly.

    I think the death should have been more May Day-like, i.e. with a clear purpose. No injuries, no blast doors, just Bond realizing he. cannot. leave.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    I don’t think there’s a way to please every fan when it comes to how Bond should die. I’ve seen some folks say it reflect his status as a 00 agent where he just gets shot in the head without any glory, but I know many other fans would perceive that as disrespectful.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2023 Posts: 2,946
    Yes, Craig said there was a discussion about having him die from a stray bullet (like DenchM), but it wasn't felt to be mythopoetic enough. I agree - it wouldn't have been. If they were going to do it, it had to be more meaningful than that. 'A Reason To Die', etc.
    I agree with Echo that it would've had even more resonance if they'd took out the prospect of him bleeding out, too. I'm one of those who don't think that he was going to die from blood loss (he got back to the control centre, re-opened the blast doors and climbed a 30ft ladder - that's not someone on the brink of karking it), but it would've emphasised the self-sacrifice if that element hadn't been there.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,907
    Wasn't he struggling to climb up the ladder, though? I hardly think Bond was in any fit state to Usain Bolt it out of there.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2023 Posts: 2,946
    Yes, he was struggling - he'd been shot twice. That's going to slow down even a meat-eating, testosterone-driven killing machine like CraigBond. But Safin didn't hit any of the more vital organs...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I didn't mind Bond dying, I just wasn't a fan of how he died.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    Does nttd have the best ending? No. Is it a fitting ending to Craig's Bond? I think so. Considering how they pulled so many storylines together, already in SP, i think this was the only way out for Craig and the only way in for a new Bond. Which i think is fair enough to the next guy. Filling Craig's shoes is as good as impossible, so creating some artistic space for the next one is a good thing.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,946
    Filling Craig's shoes is as good as impossible, so creating some artistic space for the next one is a good thing.
    Good point, Commander!

  • edited June 2023 Posts: 4,400
    I forgot how entertaining NTTD! We always think of the Craig films as being sombre. Not the case here. NTTD is almost a 70s Bond film. It's camp, mischievous and (I mean this in a good way) corny at times. It also features Daniel Craig's best Bond performance. There were a few scenes on initial viewings that felt iffy and out of character for Bond. However, the more you realise they are trying to give Craig the more you appreciate how brilliant he is in this movie. You really root for Bond to get a 'happy ever after' which sadly doesn't materialise. The tragedy of the ending is that Bond wants to live. The audience are also rooting for him, mainly as Craig as been so charming and good company throughout the film. The performances of Craig and Seydoux sell that finale.

    8cmUoMq.png
  • Posts: 1,582
    I look forward to how this question is answered: Didn't Bond die in the last film?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,735
    I think unless they come up with a cringe-worthy explanation on why he did not die in the missile explosions (like he or maybe Mathilde dreamt up all that stuff), Craig's Bond is dead for good. If the producers have some shame left, the next Bond will be a reincarnation starting with a new timeline. Ideally as a period piece from the Fifties, if you ask me, but I'm also sure that won't happen.
  • mattjoesmattjoes matjoevakia
    Posts: 6,815
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I look forward to how this question is answered: Didn't Bond die in the last film?
    Well, we didn't see his guts as he exploded into a bloody, fiery mess.

    So he's probably alive.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,684
    Oh no, not this again…. 🙄….
  • Posts: 3,281
    I forgot how entertaining NTTD! We always think of the Craig films as being sombre. Not the case here. NTTD is almost a 70s Bond film. It's camp, mischievous and (I mean this in a good way) corny at times. It also features Daniel Craig's best Bond performance. There were a few scenes on initial viewings that felt iffy and out of character for Bond. However, the more you realise they are trying to give Craig the more you appreciate how brilliant he is in this movie. You really root for Bond to get a 'happy ever after' which sadly doesn't materialise. The tragedy of the ending is that Bond wants to live. The audience are also rooting for him, mainly as Craig as been so charming and good company throughout the film. The performances of Craig and Seydoux sell that finale.

    8cmUoMq.png

    Nice to hear you liked it. I'm happy for you.

    I wish I could watch NTTD through your eyes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    We should be grateful we have movies like NTTD that really stir up debates among fans, rather than something middling that doesn’t at all elicit strong emotions or thoughts.
  • Posts: 1,582
    Whether Bond lived or died, Bond 26 is going to be problematic. If he truly died in the blast, then where does Bond 26 start? If he didn't die in the blast, how to deal with Madeleine and Mathilde. Amnesia or someone's dream would smack of bad television.
    Suggesting that the events to unfold in the next series happened before Bond died is equally weak.

    The easiest way will be to wipe the slate clean. It's been done before, albeit without Bond dying.

    Best ending ever? Not in my opinion. But, given the set up, it's really the only direction the story could have gone. Bond saves the world again and his family. Anything else would have required considerable rewriting.

    I hope Bond's death is a one off for the series. Bond dying, real or fake, already feels terribly cliched. Of course the challenge after 25 films is how do you make a film that feels familiar without also feeling like been there, done that?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    If Bond dies again it’ll probably be a VERY long time before they try that again, and would need serious convincing to whoever owns it by then.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,145
    It'll be a long time till Bond RETIRES again.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2023 Posts: 17,698
    The missiles began hitting and the ground fractured, sending Bond down a slide made from a broken wall to the lower level of a lab, where the AI instantly recognized an unconscious human patient in severe distress. The fire from the explosions above was kept out with pressurized gasses. His wounds were repaired by the re-programmed nanobots that previously infected him, and then they were micro EMP purged by the AI in residence. Medical coma was induced until authoritative rescue attempt could be made.
    James Bond WILL Return...

    As long as we're going full sci-fi with the nanobot thing...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The missiles began hitting and the ground fractured, sending Bond down a slide made from a broken wall to the lower level of a lab, where the AI instantly recognized an unconscious human patient in severe distress. The fire from the explosions above was kept out with pressurized gasses. His wounds were repaired by the re-programmed nanobots that previously infected him, and then they were micro EMP purged by the AI in residence. Medical coma was induced until authoritative rescue attempt could be made.
    James Bond WILL Return...

    As long as we're going full sci-fi with the nanobot thing...

    Sounds like a METAL GEAR plot.
  • Posts: 1,016
    I can imagine the original poster rubbing his hands with glee like a Bond villain, when posting this topic.

    How to put Blofeld's cat amongst the double=taking pigeons.
  • The biggest missed opportunity in NTTD was not having Bond’s child be a boy named James Bond Jr.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 205
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The missiles began hitting and the ground fractured, sending Bond down a slide made from a broken wall to the lower level of a lab, where the AI instantly recognized an unconscious human patient in severe distress. The fire from the explosions above was kept out with pressurized gasses. His wounds were repaired by the re-programmed nanobots that previously infected him, and then they were micro EMP purged by the AI in residence. Medical coma was induced until authoritative rescue attempt could be made.
    James Bond WILL Return...

    As long as we're going full sci-fi with the nanobot thing...

    Sounds like a METAL GEAR plot.

    The Bond Movies have been treading Metal Gear territory since the Brosnan era anyway, but it’s bit give and take, as MGS and Hideo have been waving their Bond flag for years. People talk about Nolan being influenced by Bond, but he’s been doing MGS since at least Inception too. Bond works surprisingly well with the MGS approach actually. Though… maybe they didn’t need to do the brothers thing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2023 Posts: 8,029
    I always said METAL GEAR SOLID 3 was the best James Bond video game that wasn't actually a Bond game. I feel Bond games could take a lot more influence from the stealth/espionage aspects and be less reverent towards GOLDENEYE 64's "shoot everything that moves" approach (though one can argue that's a reflection on Brosnan's films).
  • edited June 2023 Posts: 308
    Best trolling thread on the site. I applaud Pierce2Daniel for his masterful trolling. I'm sure the ghost of Ian Fleming would agree with your first post.

    Not!!!!!!

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Best trolling thread on the site. I applaud Pierce2Daniel for his masterful trolling. I'm sure the ghost of Ian Fleming would agree with your first post.

    Not!!!!!!

    Since ghosts don’t exist, and Fleming has been dead for 60 years, it doesn’t matter what his opinion would have been.
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