The Film Noir Thread

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :Don’t forget Phyllis Thaxter (ACT OF VIOLENCE, THE BREAKING POINT) also played “Ma Kent” in that Superman movie.
    movies_phyllis_thaxter_superman.jpg?crop=1xw:0.7112676056338029xh;center,top&resize=480:*

    As for THE BIG HEAT[/b], if you haven’t seen it before you are in for a big treat. In addition to Glenn Ford, you have Lee Marvin Jeanette Nolan and Jocelyn Brando (Marlon Brando’s sister). And – most importantly – you have the always lovely Gloria Grahame (as Lee Marvin’s moll GF).

    I’ve used this gif a few times on these forums to express my mood!:))
    gloria-grahame-in-a-lonely-place.gif

    THE BIG HEAT, can be thought of (IMO anyway) as the grandfather of all of the various “good cop takes on the mob and his own corrupt system” films. Interestingly, it is the Gloria’s character (Debbie Marsh) that eventually takes the mob down, and not Ford.
    A really fun watch, just be sure to make sure that your coffee pot isn’t on when you watch!!!!

    PS. “Sisters under the mink” would make a cool name for an indie new-wave band, but I'll settle for a good coffee mug.
    I'll keep The Big Heat in mind then.

    ---

    Speaking of I, the Jury, anybody ever read the book? I haven't, only a few reviews, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on the quality of Mickey Spillane's writing.

    I read several of Mickey Spillane's books. He's pretty brutal and they're very pulpy. I, THE JURY was one of my favorites.

    I had completely forgotten about it, but I actually read that book many years ago. Don t remember much at all of it.
  • Posts: 15,800
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :Don’t forget Phyllis Thaxter (ACT OF VIOLENCE, THE BREAKING POINT) also played “Ma Kent” in that Superman movie.
    movies_phyllis_thaxter_superman.jpg?crop=1xw:0.7112676056338029xh;center,top&resize=480:*

    As for THE BIG HEAT[/b], if you haven’t seen it before you are in for a big treat. In addition to Glenn Ford, you have Lee Marvin Jeanette Nolan and Jocelyn Brando (Marlon Brando’s sister). And – most importantly – you have the always lovely Gloria Grahame (as Lee Marvin’s moll GF).

    I’ve used this gif a few times on these forums to express my mood!:))
    gloria-grahame-in-a-lonely-place.gif

    THE BIG HEAT, can be thought of (IMO anyway) as the grandfather of all of the various “good cop takes on the mob and his own corrupt system” films. Interestingly, it is the Gloria’s character (Debbie Marsh) that eventually takes the mob down, and not Ford.
    A really fun watch, just be sure to make sure that your coffee pot isn’t on when you watch!!!!

    PS. “Sisters under the mink” would make a cool name for an indie new-wave band, but I'll settle for a good coffee mug.
    I'll keep The Big Heat in mind then.

    ---

    Speaking of I, the Jury, anybody ever read the book? I haven't, only a few reviews, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on the quality of Mickey Spillane's writing.

    I read several of Mickey Spillane's books. He's pretty brutal and they're very pulpy. I, THE JURY was one of my favorites.

    I had completely forgotten about it, but I actually read that book many years ago. Don t remember much at all of it.

    „The roar of the.45 shook the room. Charlotte staggered back a step. Her eyes were a symphony of incredulity, an unbelieving witness to truth. Slowly, she looked down at the ugly swelling in her naked belly where the bullet went in. "How c-could you?" she gasped. I had only a moment before talking to a corpse, but I got it in. "It was easy," I said.“

    Source: https://quotepark.com/works/i-the-jury-13108/
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    Looking forward to this Sunday’s TCM Noir Alley screening of SCARLET STREET (1946).
    MV5BMjE0OTAyODE4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMTMzNDk0MjE@._V1_.jpg

    I must admit that I get this film confused with 1944’s THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW, as they both are directed by Fritz Lang and star Edward G. Robinson, Joan Bennett and Dan Duryea. Is that one any good @ToTheRight ?
  • Posts: 15,800
    I love SCARLET STREET, @Dwayne. Big fan of Edward G Robinson and Dan Duyrea,
    THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW is one I haven't seen yet, but I'll assume it's great and a film I'd love.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    edited July 2022 Posts: 2,617
    Now, having just seen SCARLET STREET (1945), I think it is probably the bleakest film noir that I have viewed thus far. It does bring to mind a quote from Pat (Mary Astor), the world weary bar-maid in ACT OF VIOLENCE (1948):

    What is it? Love trouble or money trouble? Listen, Frankie, I've seen 'em all. I've seen all the troubles in the world and they boil down to just those two. You're broke or you're lonely. Or, both.

    Is there a poorer “sap” that Christopher Cross (Edward G. Robinson) in all of film noir? Stuck in a loveless marriage to Adele (Rosalind Ivan) and in a “company man” position at the bank, he seems to be put upon by the world at large. [Still, I found myself laughing as Adele tells him to wash the dishes!] He appears to put up with one emasculating situation after another. In fact, he isn’t particularly upset when he finds out that Kitty March (Joan Bennett) has sold some of his paintings and has even taken credit for them. Only, when he realizes that Kitty has been having a relationship with Johnny (Dan Duryea) all along and tells him straight up that she views him as a pitiful old man, does he snap.

    Note, from internet summaries SCARLET STREET does have a very similar vibe to WOMAN IN THE WINDOW (1944), except in that film Robinson wakes up and realizes that it is all a bad dream. Still, the end of the film does have a dream-nightmare like quality with him being haunted by the voices of Kitty and Johnny from beyond the grave. I really liked the way Fritz Lang has the sweet nothings of Bennett and Duryea invade Robinson’s head and drive him mad. The end of STREET finds him alone and homeless. And if he hadn’t suffered enough, the final scene has him witnessing his “self-portrait” painting of Kitty being sold for thousands of dollars. That’s some cold sh*t!!
    chriscross.jpg?w=584&h=447
    Edward G. Robinson
    As with Peter Lorre, my view of Edward G. Robinson is clouded by all of the parodies of him that I saw as a child. Need a gangster like character for Bugs Bunny to match wits with? Do a parody of Edward G. Robinson! (I’m especially fond of the Chauncey "Flat-Face" Frog caricature in the old Courageous Cat & Minute Mouse cartoons – which was itself, Bob Kane’s own spoof on his Batman characters).

    EnbT2DqXEAIVMjV.jpg
    Now having seen SCARLET STREET, I’m amazed with his range as an actor. I’m also amazed that he never won a competitive Academy Award.

    Joan Bennett
    Perhaps the most unredeemable femme fatale that I have seen thus far. She also clearly doesn’t like to keep a tidy apartment. “Lazy Legs” is a slob.
    Bizarre-Los-Angeles-1945-JOAN-BENNETT-SCARLET-STREET.jpg

    FYI: Ms. Bennett’s career was the subject of a “docu-drama” podcast series in 2021 called “Love Is a Crime.” Staring Zooey Deschanel as Bennett and Jon Hamm as her producer-husband Walter Wanger. While I’m sure long time film noir fans know the story, it was new to me. I’ve only listened to the intro episode, but the idea sounds promising.
    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-is-a-crime/id1578559817

    Having seen SCARLET STREET, it is definitely an “Essential” Film Noir. Now, which film do I remove from my current list of essentials, or do I expand the list from twenty-five to thirty? Decisions, decisions!
    :))
  • Posts: 15,800
    Great write up of SCARLET STREET, @Dwayne!
    I always feel if he were playing Johnny Rocco he wouldn't put up with the belittling he goes thru here.
    Feel bad for Eddie G. Great print TCM had of this film. My copies are the old public domain prints that turn up in noir DVD sets.
  • Posts: 6,707
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :Don’t forget Phyllis Thaxter (ACT OF VIOLENCE, THE BREAKING POINT) also played “Ma Kent” in that Superman movie.
    movies_phyllis_thaxter_superman.jpg?crop=1xw:0.7112676056338029xh;center,top&resize=480:*

    As for THE BIG HEAT[/b], if you haven’t seen it before you are in for a big treat. In addition to Glenn Ford, you have Lee Marvin Jeanette Nolan and Jocelyn Brando (Marlon Brando’s sister). And – most importantly – you have the always lovely Gloria Grahame (as Lee Marvin’s moll GF).

    I’ve used this gif a few times on these forums to express my mood!:))
    gloria-grahame-in-a-lonely-place.gif

    THE BIG HEAT, can be thought of (IMO anyway) as the grandfather of all of the various “good cop takes on the mob and his own corrupt system” films. Interestingly, it is the Gloria’s character (Debbie Marsh) that eventually takes the mob down, and not Ford.
    A really fun watch, just be sure to make sure that your coffee pot isn’t on when you watch!!!!

    PS. “Sisters under the mink” would make a cool name for an indie new-wave band, but I'll settle for a good coffee mug.
    I'll keep The Big Heat in mind then.

    ---

    Speaking of I, the Jury, anybody ever read the book? I haven't, only a few reviews, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on the quality of Mickey Spillane's writing.

    I read several of Mickey Spillane's books. He's pretty brutal and they're very pulpy. I, THE JURY was one of my favorites.

    I had completely forgotten about it, but I actually read that book many years ago. Don t remember much at all of it.

    „The roar of the.45 shook the room. Charlotte staggered back a step. Her eyes were a symphony of incredulity, an unbelieving witness to truth. Slowly, she looked down at the ugly swelling in her naked belly where the bullet went in. "How c-could you?" she gasped. I had only a moment before talking to a corpse, but I got it in. "It was easy," I said.“

    Source: https://quotepark.com/works/i-the-jury-13108/

    That's pretty cool.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 15,800
    Thought I'd update my list.......

    1. OUT OF THE PAST (1947)
    2. THE BIG SLEEP (1946)
    3. THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE (1946)
    4. THE MALTESE FALCON (1941)
    5. IN A LONELY PLACE (1950)
    6. DETOUR (1946)
    7. KISS ME DEADLY (1955)
    8. ROAD HOUSE (1948)
    9. RAW DEAL (1948)
    10. HIS KIND OF WOMAN (1951)
    11. LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN (1945)
    12. LAURA (1944)
    13. GILDA (1946)
    14. THE BRIBE (1949)
    15. JOHNNY EAGER (1941)
    16. THIS GUN FOR HIRE (1942)
    17. DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944)
    18. THE KILLERS (1946)
    19. MURDER MY SWEET (1944)
    20. DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK (1952)
    21. CRISS CROSS (1949)
    22. THE BIG COMBO (1955)
    23. DARK PASSAGE (1947)
    24. MACAO (1952)
    25. KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL (1952)
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 15,800
    Here is a ranking of my favorite noirs that are in the public domain:

    1. DETOUR (1946)
    2. QUICKSAND (1950)
    3. KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL (1952)
    4. THE STRANGER (1946)
    5. THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS (1946)
    6. SCARLET STREET (1945)
    7. TOO LATE FOR TEARS (1947)
    8. WOMAN ON THE RUN (1950)
    9. THE BIG COMBO (1955)
    10. SUDDENLY (1954)
    11. HOLLOW TRIUMPH (1948)
    12. TRAPPED (1949)
    13. THE HITCHHIKER (1953)
    14. D.O.A (1949)
    15. HE WALKED BY NIGHT (1948)
    16. WHISTLE STOP (1946)
    17. IMPACT (1949)
    18. THE GREEN GLOVE (1952)
    19. THE CHASE (1946)
    20. BORDERLINE (1950)
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    @ToTheRight. Thanks for the kind words.

    RE: Your new top 25 list: that is a major turnover if I must say.

    As for the public domain list, several of my favorites are listed (that aren't on my essentials list): THE STRANGER (1946), THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS (1946) - what a cast! - THE BIG COMBO (1955) - Joseph Lewis's other masterpiece and HOLLOW TRIUMPH (1948).
  • Posts: 15,800
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @ToTheRight. Thanks for the kind words.

    RE: Your new top 25 list: that is a major turnover if I must say.

    As for the public domain list, several of my favorites are listed (that aren't on my essentials list): THE STRANGER (1946), THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS (1946) - what a cast! - THE BIG COMBO (1955) - Joseph Lewis's other masterpiece and HOLLOW TRIUMPH (1948).

    On some DVD sets HOLLOW TRIUMPH is re-titled THE SCAR. I believe that may have been a reissue title.
    I love the noirs in public domain, though some of the prints are of questionable quality.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    jobo wrote: »
    No love for Chinatown?

    There are a couple of Japanese films that deserve some recognition as well. High And Love and The Bad Sleep Well in particular.

    Edit: Does Seven count? If so it certainly deserves to be up there. So does a couple of Lynch films

    FYI on Japanese Film Noir:

    https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/japanese-film-noir-guide-six-best-films/
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,255
    Part the way through The Big Sleep I still don't fully understand what goes on in this movie despite watching it hundreds of time :)) The scene and characters are pure gold, the score and atmosphere of this film locks me in immediately. The Acme Book store is one of my favorite scenes...

    hqdefault.jpg
    Bogart with Dorothy Malone.

    The actresses in this film are astonishingly attractive.

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    edited August 2022 Posts: 2,617
    I don't think anyone really understands the plot to THE BIG SLEEP @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. :)) Of course, once “Bogie and Bacall” became an item, the film’s re-edits only added to the confusion. Like most film noirs it is best not to think about the plot too hard and just enjoy the ride.

    As for the actresses, one could make the case that THE BIG SLEEP was a proto-Bond film in that regard.
  • Posts: 15,800
    The 1945 pre-release version is a bit more coherent in terms of plot. I'd still sacrifice that for more scenes of Bogie and Bacall chemistry that the '46 edit provides.
    THE BIG SLEEP tend to tie with OUT OF THE PAST as my all time favorite film.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited August 2022 Posts: 23,255
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.
  • Posts: 15,800
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.

    There's a lengthy scene in the DA's office that pretty much explains the plot. James Flavin's role in that scene ended up on the cutting room floor.
    Howard Hawks had a good eye for the beauties. I liked Joy Barlow as the cab driver Bond.....uh I mean Bogie flirts with.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,255
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.

    There's a lengthy scene in the DA's office that pretty much explains the plot. James Flavin's role in that scene ended up on the cutting room floor.
    Howard Hawks had a good eye for the beauties. I liked Joy Barlow as the cab driver Bond.....uh I mean Bogie flirts with.

    The most attractive cab driver I have ever seen :))
  • Posts: 15,800
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.

    There's a lengthy scene in the DA's office that pretty much explains the plot. James Flavin's role in that scene ended up on the cutting room floor.
    Howard Hawks had a good eye for the beauties. I liked Joy Barlow as the cab driver Bond.....uh I mean Bogie flirts with.

    The most attractive cab driver I have ever seen :))

    She's pretty cute. great rapport with Bogie, there. That scene is edited into a different spot in the 1945 pre-release version.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,255
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.

    There's a lengthy scene in the DA's office that pretty much explains the plot. James Flavin's role in that scene ended up on the cutting room floor.
    Howard Hawks had a good eye for the beauties. I liked Joy Barlow as the cab driver Bond.....uh I mean Bogie flirts with.

    The most attractive cab driver I have ever seen :))

    She's pretty cute. great rapport with Bogie, there. That scene is edited into a different spot in the 1945 pre-release version.

    I definitely need to compare the versions to see which one I have, I have been thinking of getting the Bluray for some time I will buy that in any case.
  • Posts: 15,800
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like to see the non edited version of The Big Sleep, though I may have without realizing.

    I have watched the same DVD of The Big Sleep for decades though saw it numerous times on TV from the late 70's onward.

    Howard Hawks indeed selected proto Bond girls.

    There's a lengthy scene in the DA's office that pretty much explains the plot. James Flavin's role in that scene ended up on the cutting room floor.
    Howard Hawks had a good eye for the beauties. I liked Joy Barlow as the cab driver Bond.....uh I mean Bogie flirts with.

    The most attractive cab driver I have ever seen :))

    She's pretty cute. great rapport with Bogie, there. That scene is edited into a different spot in the 1945 pre-release version.

    I definitely need to compare the versions to see which one I have, I have been thinking of getting the Bluray for some time I will buy that in any case.

    The DVD releases I had contained both versions. Flipper disc - a version of each side.
    I do prefer the regular 1946 cut as the additional scenes with Bogie and Bacall make the film, IMO.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    The version of THE BIG SLEEP that I own (as part of an old six-disc collection (with The Maltese Falcon/To Have and have Not/Dark Passage/Key Largo and Designing Woman) only has the 1946 edit (as far as I can tell). It does, however, have a featurette with explains the differences between the 1945 and 1946 versions of the film. If you buy the film as a stand-alone you get both versions (at-least that is what’s listed on Amazon.com at the moment).

    A quick Bond connection with THE BIG SLEEP: Charles K. Feldman (of CR’67 fame) was Bacall’s agent at the time and he thought that Hawk’s initial edit of the film gave her too small a role. Apparently, her performance in CONFIDENTIAL AGENT (1945) – filmed after the BIG SLEEP, but released before – was criticized, and her career needed a boost.

    Do you have any additional information on this @ToTheRight ? Thanks.
  • Posts: 15,800
    Dwayne wrote: »
    The version of THE BIG SLEEP that I own (as part of an old six-disc collection (with The Maltese Falcon/To Have and have Not/Dark Passage/Key Largo and Designing Woman) only has the 1946 edit (as far as I can tell). It does, however, have a featurette with explains the differences between the 1945 and 1946 versions of the film. If you buy the film as a stand-alone you get both versions (at-least that is what’s listed on Amazon.com at the moment).

    A quick Bond connection with THE BIG SLEEP: Charles K. Feldman (of CR’67 fame) was Bacall’s agent at the time and he thought that Hawk’s initial edit of the film gave her too small a role. Apparently, her performance in CONFIDENTIAL AGENT (1945) – filmed after the BIG SLEEP, but released before – was criticized, and her career needed a boost.

    Do you have any additional information on this @ToTheRight ? Thanks.

    That about sums it up, @Dwayne. She was getting thrashed for her performance in CONFIDENTIAL AGENT and Feldman felt it important to salvage her career. He sent Jack Warner a detailed letter giving notes on the kind of scenes that might enhance her performance in THE BIG SLEEP. More scenes of sexual innuendo and banter with Bogie. They went back and refilmed some scenes adding witty dialogue a year after the film had been in the can.
    THE BIG SLEEP's initial release had been delayed so Warner Bros could get their WWII themed movies out as the war was ending.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    A quick question for the rest of the noir panel @ToTheRight and @Fire_and_Ice_Returns : Why is SUNSET BLVD (1950) considered a film noir and ALL ABOUT EVE (1940) is not? (at least it isn’t listed in any of my noir books)

    I can only surmise that the reason is the character arc of SUNSET BLVD’s chief protagonist (William Holden’s Joe Gillis):
    • Fate: He blows out a fire in front of the home of Norma Desmond.
    • Bad Decisions: He then decides to “fake interest” in her (and her doomed project) in return for money even though he knows that she is “out-there”.
    This is in contrast (IMO) to ALL ABOUT EVE’s Eve Harrington (Anne Baxter) and Margo Channing (Bette Davis) who don’t really “change” during the movie. Eve’s scheming is clear from the start, as is Margo’s fears of getting older. Only the ending – which promises a “what goes around, comes around” eventual fate for Eve (via Phoebe) hints at noir. Still, it is a great film, full of great performances. Thoughts?

    In any case, the next issue of NOIR CITY Magazine with THE LAST SEDUCTION’s Linda Fiorentino seems interesting.

  • Posts: 15,800
    Dwayne wrote: »
    A quick question for the rest of the noir panel @ToTheRight and @Fire_and_Ice_Returns : Why is SUNSET BLVD (1950) considered a film noir and ALL ABOUT EVE (1940) is not? (at least it isn’t listed in any of my noir books)

    I can only surmise that the reason is the character arc of SUNSET BLVD’s chief protagonist (William Holden’s Joe Gillis):
    • Fate: He blows out a fire in front of the home of Norma Desmond.
    • Bad Decisions: He then decides to “fake interest” in her (and her doomed project) in return for money even though he knows that she is “out-there”.
    This is in contrast (IMO) to ALL ABOUT EVE’s Eve Harrington (Anne Baxter) and Margo Channing (Bette Davis) who don’t really “change” during the movie. Eve’s scheming is clear from the start, as is Margo’s fears of getting older. Only the ending – which promises a “what goes around, comes around” eventual fate for Eve (via Phoebe) hints at noir. Still, it is a great film, full of great performances. Thoughts?

    In any case, the next issue of NOIR CITY Magazine with THE LAST SEDUCTION’s Linda Fiorentino seems interesting.

    I'd say SUNSET BLVD counts as noir because Holden gets involved (against his better judgment) with a femme fatale and ends up dead in her pool. His corpse provides the traditional voice over narration.
    Been ages since I watched ALL ABOUT EVE, which I mostly watched for Marilyn. Mostly felt like a drama to me, with noir potential, but I don't think I'd really call it noir.
    Still, an excellent film I should revisit soon.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,255
    I agree regarding Sunset BLVD, Gloria Swanson is a Femme Fatale so qualifies.

    I have never properly watched All About Eve so can't give an opinion on that film.
  • Posts: 15,800
    There's another film with a theatre setting that I think qualifies as noir: A DOUBLE LIFE. Ronald Colman plays an actor that becomes obsessed with Othello and things take a noirish turn.
    Been 20 years since I've seen it, but it was pretty good.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    Thanks for the feedback @ToTheRight. I’ll have to look into A DOUBLE LIFE.

    As for Gloria Swanson’s Norma Desmond @Fire_and_Ice_Returns ; I don’t really see her as a femme fatale in the traditional sense. If anything, William Holden’s character (Joe Gillis) could be considered a homme fatale, in that he takes advantage of her.

    Think about it, he’s on the run from his creditors and is hard up for cash, quickly realizes that while Norma is batsh*t crazy, she has plenty of cash. Thus, he decides to humor her for a few weeks to that he can earn money. Naturally, getting out of this situation proves to be much harder than getting into it. “No one ever leaves a STAR. That's what makes one a STAR!”

    FYI: There is a nice profile of actress Nancy Olson-Livingston (Betty Schaefer) in the latest issue of The New Yorker. At age 94, she is the last surviving cast-member of SUNSET BLVD. A very interesting life I must say.

    artworks-000373915056-hzd58j-t500x500.jpg

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/outliving-norma-desmond-and-then-some
  • Posts: 15,800
    I'd say she's not a traditional femme fatale, though I think she still counts for the most part. Good point about Holden being an homme fatale.
    Great movie. I should revisit it soon.
  • redherringredherring Netherlands
    Posts: 15
    Please go watch Leave her to Heaven for those who haven't seen it yet. It's sad that Gene Tierney is remembered more for her beauty rather than her acting prowess but her performance in this movie, especially during the 'lake' scene, is just chilling.
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