The Film Noir Thread

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  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    @ringfire211. Interestingly Life Magazine included DIRTY HARRY as part of their film noir retrospective in 2016. I don’t necessarily agree with its inclusion, but I guess some people do.

    For the record, they also listed BONNIE and CLYDE (1967), CHINATOWN (1974), TAXI DRIVER (1976), BODY HEAT (1981), BLOOD SIMPLE (1984), BLUE VELVET (1986), PULP FICTION (1994) and L.A. CONDIDENTIAL (1997) as examples of “back in black” 1967-1997 Neo-Noirs.

    41EX-z1dILL._SX366_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    The Rough Guide to Film Noir also groups DIRTY HARRY along with films like the FRENCH CONNECTION (1971), MEAN STREETS (1973), and THE DRIVER (1978) as examples from the 1970s.

    Again, to each his own. And that is part of the fun of discussing these films IMO.
  • Posts: 2,894
    jobo wrote: »
    I am not sure about the exact definitions, but wouldn't quite many of the Bond novels qualify as Noir?

    Defining noir is a notoriously tricky business, but I think most of the Bond novels are a little too outlandish and globe-trotting to qualify as noir. Casino Royale on the other hand has a relatively down-to-earth plot and characters, plus various hardboiled elements--it's the most claustrophobic Bond novel (thanks to its single location), Bond's character it at its harshest, the violence is extreme and unsettling, there's a duplicitous woman who comes to a bad end, and the book has a truly downbeat ending with little to no consolation. It's easy to see why Casino Royale was Raymond Chandler's favorite Bond novel.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    @ToTheRight. Thanks for posting that info on HIDDEN FEAR (1957). The trailer is here (the full movie can be found on YouTube if you google it 😊).


    Per @Revelator: Part of the fun (for me anyway) of film noir is imagining “What if the Bond Series had started in 1952 instead of 1962?” mind games as I watch certain films. Impossible, I know, but still fun.

    For example, Valentina Cortese (see my first posting on this thread) could have made a very good Tatiana Romanova in a FRWL type adventure. Subjective, but food for thought.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,916
    Imagining a 1950s Chandler screenplay for Casino Royale now...
  • Posts: 15,800
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @ringfire211. Interestingly Life Magazine included DIRTY HARRY as part of their film noir retrospective in 2016. I don’t necessarily agree with its inclusion, but I guess some people do.

    For the record, they also listed BONNIE and CLYDE (1967), CHINATOWN (1974), TAXI DRIVER (1976), BODY HEAT (1981), BLOOD SIMPLE (1984), BLUE VELVET (1986), PULP FICTION (1994) and L.A. CONDIDENTIAL (1997) as examples of “back in black” 1967-1997 Neo-Noirs.

    41EX-z1dILL._SX366_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    The Rough Guide to Film Noir also groups DIRTY HARRY along with films like the FRENCH CONNECTION (1971), MEAN STREETS (1973), and THE DRIVER (1978) as examples from the 1970s.

    Again, to each his own. And that is part of the fun of discussing these films IMO.

    I have that magazine, @Dwayne. Pity they leave out some of my favorite noirs.
    I must admit, even though they may be in my top 25 neo noirs, I also hesitate to really call films like DEATH WISH and the Dirty Harry films true noir. I forgot about TAXI DRIVER.

    Dwayne wrote: »
    @ToTheRight. Thanks for posting that info on HIDDEN FEAR (1957). The trailer is here (the full movie can be found on YouTube if you google it 😊).


    Per @Revelator: Part of the fun (for me anyway) of film noir is imagining “What if the Bond Series had started in 1952 instead of 1962?” mind games as I watch certain films. Impossible, I know, but still fun.

    For example, Valentina Cortese (see my first posting on this thread) could have made a very good Tatiana Romanova in a FRWL type adventure. Subjective, but food for thought.

    Great trailer!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,254

    Short form Noir and a great great theme tune.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns . Thanks for posting that. One of factors that led to the decline of Film Noir on the big screen in the late 1950s/early 1960s was the fact that many TV shows of the era borrowed elements of it so well.

    For those wishing to do a deep dive into the history of film noir, in addition to The Rough Guide to Film Noir” by Alexander Ballinger & Danny Graydon (2007) I can recommend the following sources/books.

    The Film Noir Foundation is a good source of news and information. They also help to document and restore rare titles and make them available again as well as hosting periodic NOIR CITY FILM FESTIVALS. Most importantly, several times a year they publish THE NOIR CITY Magazine. I joined the foundation in 2021 so I could read the outstanding article by actress Dana Delaney on the career of Gloria Grahame. And while the focus is mostly on 1940-1960 “classic” noir, they don’t ignore various neo-noir classics of more recent years.

    http://www.filmnoirfoundation.org/index.html

    On the web site, you can purchase back issues (Pdf only) of their magazine, and view foundation videos of various noir figures. For example, Victoria Mature, daughter of actor Victor Mature, was interviewed prior to a special screening of one of her father’s movies. You can also submit questions to the “Czar of Noir” Eddie Mueller.

    DARK CITY – THE LOST WORLD OF FILM NOIR (2021) by Eddie Mueller
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    A very entertaining read about the films and personalities of 1940-1960 noir. I could have been enhanced with an easy to find list of “Essential” titles IMO, but that is a small criticism. And I understand he had a reason for not providing one.

    Taschen’s Film Noir (2017) by Alain Silver
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    A more clinical read than Mueller’s book, it also covers the factors that created film noir (i.e., German Expressionism, The Great Depression and post-war unease in America). It also has a handy list of fifty films it considers “cannon.” It also has actress Peggy Cummins on the cover…enough said.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,389
    Just saw the trailer for Blonde starring Ana De Armas, I think it's also a Noir film, it's based on the life of Marilyn Monroe.
  • Posts: 15,800
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Just saw the trailer for Blonde starring Ana De Armas, I think it's also a Noir film, it's based on the life of Marilyn Monroe.

    I may try and see that.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,254
    Two comedies that homage the Noir genre, both a lot of fun...

    Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid


    Fatal Instinct
  • Posts: 15,800
    Two comedies that homage the Noir genre, both a lot of fun...

    Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid


    Fatal Instinct

    YES! I thought both films were pretty funny.
    Back in the late '80's I had taped DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID from a television airing. It was a differently edited version to the theatrical release that included more scenes of Bogie from IN A LONELY PLACE. Really a subplot between Steve Martin's character and Bogie. To this day I've never seen those scenes again. None of the DVD releases included them on their special features and information on this different edit of the film is practically non existent. . Wish I still had that VHS tape.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,254
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Two comedies that homage the Noir genre, both a lot of fun...

    Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid


    Fatal Instinct

    YES! I thought both films were pretty funny.
    Back in the late '80's I had taped DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID from a television airing. It was a differently edited version to the theatrical release that included more scenes of Bogie from IN A LONELY PLACE. Really a subplot between Steve Martin's character and Bogie. To this day I've never seen those scenes again. None of the DVD releases included them on their special features and information on this different edit of the film is practically non existent. . Wish I still had that VHS tape.

    I have Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid on DVD and Bluray I am pretty sure its the same version of the film though its been a while since I watched the film not sure if the scenes you mentioned are present in the versions I have. If there are its likely to be the Bluray. The runtime on my Bluray is 89 minutes not sure about my DVD its in storage.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 15,800
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Two comedies that homage the Noir genre, both a lot of fun...

    Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid


    Fatal Instinct

    YES! I thought both films were pretty funny.
    Back in the late '80's I had taped DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID from a television airing. It was a differently edited version to the theatrical release that included more scenes of Bogie from IN A LONELY PLACE. Really a subplot between Steve Martin's character and Bogie. To this day I've never seen those scenes again. None of the DVD releases included them on their special features and information on this different edit of the film is practically non existent. . Wish I still had that VHS tape.

    I have Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid on DVD and Bluray I am pretty sure its the same version of the film though its been a while since I watched the film not sure if the scenes you mentioned are present in the versions I have. If there are its likely to be the Bluray. The runtime on my Bluray is 89 minutes not sure about my DVD its in storage.

    I have a DVD copy as well. Apparently there's another Blu ray coming out and it does not have any additional scenes either.
    I think the television edit was funnier. I distinctly recall John Barry's "I'm Frightened" track from BODY HEAT being played during a clip where Steve Martin is dressed as Gloria Grahame from IN A LONELY PLACE. Bogie comes in and attempts to strangle him. then gets a proper scolding from Martin.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    Thanks for posting those @Fire_and_Ice_Returns. I had forgotten about DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID. I wasn't into film noir back then and I still not fully up to speed. :D
  • Posts: 15,800
    DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID partially helped get me into noir. I saw it around the first time I watched THE MALTESE FALCON. I was hooked.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited June 2022 Posts: 23,254
    Some UK Viewers may remember Moviedrome (1988-2000) here is Alex Cox's introduction to Kiss Me Deadly...


    Introduction to A Long Goodbye...


    Moviedrome was one of my go to movie programs in my youth, there was always an introduction before the feature presentation that gave some history of the film.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    Thanks again @Fire_and_Ice_Returns Alex Cox is also on the Criterion Collection version of KISS ME DEADLY.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,254
    Dwayne wrote: »
    Thanks again @Fire_and_Ice_Returns Alex Cox is also on the Criterion Collection version of KISS ME DEADLY.

    I never knew that though I don't have many from the Criterion Collection, my DVD of Kiss Me Deadly only has the Theatrical Trailer as extra content.
  • Posts: 15,800
    Some UK Viewers may remember Moviedrome (1988-2000) here is Alex Cox's introduction to Kiss Me Deadly...


    Introduction to A Long Goodbye...


    Moviedrome was one of my go to movie programs in my youth, there was always an introduction before the feature presentation that gave some history of the film.

    These are great, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns! Moviedrome looks like it's right up my alley.
  • Posts: 6,798
    Loved 'Moviedrome' I wish they would bring it back. You can watch most of the brilliant Alex Cox intros to a lot of the films on YouTube!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited June 2022 Posts: 23,254
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Some UK Viewers may remember Moviedrome (1988-2000) here is Alex Cox's introduction to Kiss Me Deadly...


    Introduction to A Long Goodbye...


    Moviedrome was one of my go to movie programs in my youth, there was always an introduction before the feature presentation that gave some history of the film.

    These are great, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns! Moviedrome looks like it's right up my alley.

    They introduced a lot of cult movies I may never have been aware of back then.
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Loved 'Moviedrome' I wish they would bring it back. You can watch most of the brilliant Alex Cox intros to a lot of the films on YouTube!

    I liked the earlier days with Alex Cox, I preferred Alex's film choice to Mark Cousins.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 2,858
    Some UK Viewers may remember Moviedrome (1988-2000) here is Alex Cox's introduction to Kiss Me Deadly...


    Introduction to A Long Goodbye...


    Moviedrome was one of my go to movie programs in my youth, there was always an introduction before the feature presentation that gave some history of the film.

    I'm too young to have caught Moviedrome on TV, but I must admit, after watching Mark Cousin's A Story of Film when it came out I used to watch Youtube videos of Cousin's and Alex Cox's introductions for this program. It's great stuff, certainly had an influence on me.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,617
    Here is the Alex Cox short from the Criterion KISS ME DEADLY.



    TCM's Eddie Muller's Into/outro:(w/guest Max Allan Collins)



    BTW: Is it better to post a review of a film noir under the "last movie watched" thread or here? In any case my look at THIEVE'S HIGHWAY is under that thread.
  • Posts: 15,800
    Dwayne wrote: »
    Here is the Alex Cox short from the Criterion KISS ME DEADLY.



    TCM's Eddie Muller's Into/outro:(w/guest Max Allan Collins)



    BTW: Is it better to post a review of a film noir under the "last movie watched" thread or here? In any case my look at THIEVE'S HIGHWAY is under that thread.

    I love the Eddie Muller Noir Alley intros. KISS ME DEADLY is one of my favorite noirs. MY GUN IS QUICK is actually my favorite of those Mike Hammer films. I like Robert Bray's take on Mike Hammer. I finally got to see I THE JURY abut 10 years ago. Loved it as well. Fun to see Mickey himself play Hammer in THE GIRL HUNTERS.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    I don't know if it's been mentioned already but

    This Gun For Hire
    Copy_of_ThisGunForHire.jpg

    That is one of the first films that comes to mind when thinking of Film Noirs. It also has this charming scene:

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    edited June 2022 Posts: 2,617
    Thanks for the recommendation @MajorDSmythe . I mostly know Veronica Lake from THE BLUE DAHLIA (1946) and from the seemingly countless references to “The Peek-a-boo Blond” made in cartoons over the years (although not the one that you’re probably thinking of - that was mostly 1950s model Vicki Dougan). Hard to believe that her film career was basically over by 1950 and that she was “re-discovered” waiting tables in New York City in the early 1960s. She certainly lived and died “noir.”

    22545208472_baa3b47116_b.jpg

  • Posts: 6,798
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Some UK Viewers may remember Moviedrome (1988-2000) here is Alex Cox's introduction to Kiss Me Deadly...


    Introduction to A Long Goodbye...


    Moviedrome was one of my go to movie programs in my youth, there was always an introduction before the feature presentation that gave some history of the film.

    These are great, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns! Moviedrome looks like it's right up my alley.

    They introduced a lot of cult movies I may never have been aware of back then.
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Loved 'Moviedrome' I wish they would bring it back. You can watch most of the brilliant Alex Cox intros to a lot of the films on YouTube!

    I liked the earlier days with Alex Cox, I preferred Alex's film choice to Mark Cousins.

    I agree. Alex was more likeable and funny!
  • Posts: 15,800
    I don't know if it's been mentioned already but

    This Gun For Hire
    Copy_of_ThisGunForHire.jpg

    That is one of the first films that comes to mind when thinking of Film Noirs. It also has this charming scene:


    I love THIS GUN FOR HIRE.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited June 2022 Posts: 23,254
    Reading these post's made me realize I need to do a deep dive back into Noir, I will start with Phillip Marlowe and work backwards with the Film and TV adaptions. I learnt of Poodle Springs (1998) starring James Caan as Marlowe yesterday I don't recall ever watching this Neo Noir Tv Movie, based on Chandler's unfinished final book...


  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    In spite of it's tv movie limitations, Poodle Springs features my 2nd favourite Marlowe after Mitchum. One for the controversial opinions thread, perhaps?
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