No Time To Die: Why It Should Not Have Been Made (The Way It Was)

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  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 650
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Maybe it was because he was the first Bond she cast.

    Because Craig was the first Bond actor in over 40 years to deliver 2 classics. And played the role convincingly. And cracked a billion.

    People on this forum are saying that Craig was sort of just forced because Barbara was personally obsessed with him. But it's not just Barbara. Millions of people love Craig as Bond to a greater extent than the 4 previous actors.

    Skyfall hit a billion because of high ticket prices. TB is still the most successful Bond movie when adjusted for inflation. I'm not saying SF's gross wasn't an achievement, I'm just saying that, at a time when movies like Jurassic World, Furious 7 and 8, Transformers, and Captain Marvel make more than the Billion-Dollar Bond, gross isn't exactly proof of a great movie.
    On the money there mate, that’s exactly why they did it. I work at EON and I was in a meeting where MGW suggested a traditional Bond gets the girl ending, for the fans. Unfortunately, Daniel Craig himself suddenly burst in ranting about how he didn’t want Star Wars to outwoke them, and demanding they change the script. Barbara, of course, just sat back and let him take control, because what Craig wants, Craig gets, and she really hates the fans. The ending happening to be a fitting conclusion the ongoing themes and character arcs of the era was pure coincidence, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Feminazi Craig just wanted to copy Star Wars.

    Personally though, I’m pretty happy about that. I’m black and it’s nice to see our evil plan coming to fruition. We’re all in on it. The women, the blacks, the gays. And of course, the modern world has gone so mental and woke that nobody will dare stand up to our cultural genocide. There’ll be no more boring straight white men left on screen by the time we’re done B-)

    I figured it was something like that.

    dan--z.jpg

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 214
    error post....move along....

  • slide_99 wrote: »
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Maybe it was because he was the first Bond she cast.

    Because Craig was the first Bond actor in over 40 years to deliver 2 classics. And played the role convincingly. And cracked a billion.

    People on this forum are saying that Craig was sort of just forced because Barbara was personally obsessed with him. But it's not just Barbara. Millions of people love Craig as Bond to a greater extent than the 4 previous actors.
    On the money there mate, that’s exactly why they did it. I work at EON and I was in a meeting where MGW suggested a traditional Bond gets the girl ending, for the fans. Unfortunately, Daniel Craig himself suddenly burst in ranting about how he didn’t want Star Wars to outwoke them, and demanding they change the script. Barbara, of course, just sat back and let him take control, because what Craig wants, Craig gets, and she really hates the fans. The ending happening to be a fitting conclusion the ongoing themes and character arcs of the era was pure coincidence, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Feminazi Craig just wanted to copy Star Wars.

    Personally though, I’m pretty happy about that. I’m black and it’s nice to see our evil plan coming to fruition. We’re all in on it. The women, the blacks, the gays. And of course, the modern world has gone so mental and woke that nobody will dare stand up to our cultural genocide. There’ll be no more boring straight white men left on screen by the time we’re done B-)

    I figured it was something like that.

    Just FYI: you may want to have your internal sarcasm-meter adjusted. It seems not to be registering a fairly obvious example...
  • Posts: 1,704
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    delfloria wrote: »
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.

    You're a sexist misogynist dinosaur... a relic of the cold war.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    delfloria wrote: »
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.

    They're still there!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    delfloria wrote: »
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.

    They're still there!

    Good point.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    delfloria wrote: »
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.

    I'm a lassy and you're in good company because I do too. Honestly, it doesn't bother me one bit and never has. I may be alone in those sentiments.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2021 Posts: 13,888
    Bond used to smack a girl on the arse. Now he smacks Valdo on the arse to get in the plane.

    51707598624_3c55780493_w.jpg
  • delfloria wrote: »
    I'm politically........................incorrect, having grown up with Connery's Bond in the sixties. I really miss those sexy girls in the title sequences.

    I don't mind them at all. The moan and groan wokesters are the real enemy.
  • Posts: 12,249
    NTTD didn’t have even one unclad girl in the titles if I’m not mistaken? I won’t bemoan too much yet as CR and DN also did not do this, but the desexualization of women in media is a big thing now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the way forward, sadly.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 2,038
    FoxRox wrote: »
    NTTD didn’t have even one unclad girl in the titles if I’m not mistaken? I won’t bemoan too much yet as CR and DN also did not do this, but the desexualization of women in media is a big thing now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the way forward, sadly.

    I mean, I don’t think we’ll have another Bond “Bimbo”, but the series has sort of done an excellent job within the Craig era, as well as films like GE, and OHMSS, of sexualizing the women without having to rely on the bikinis, bimbo attitudes, long camera shots, etc...

    An intelligent mind is just as sexy to some men as looks, and if Vesper, Madeline, Natalya, and Tracy (she deserves to be included because Diana Rigg paved the way for these types in the series) are anything to go by, I’m perfectly content with future Bond Girls and that type of direction down the road.
  • Posts: 12,249
    FoxRox wrote: »
    NTTD didn’t have even one unclad girl in the titles if I’m not mistaken? I won’t bemoan too much yet as CR and DN also did not do this, but the desexualization of women in media is a big thing now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the way forward, sadly.

    I mean, I don’t think we’ll have another Bond “Bimbo”, but the series has sort of done an excellent job within the Craig era, as well as films like GE, and OHMSS, of sexualizing the women without having to rely on the bikinis, bimbo attitudes, long camera shots, etc...

    An intelligent mind is just as sexy to some men as looks, and if Vesper, Madeline, Natalya, and Tracy (she deserves to be included because Diana Rigg paved the way for this type of these types in the series) are anything to go by, I’m perfectly content with future Bond Girls and that type of direction down the road.

    I think the modern Bond girls have been great and attractive too. I’m just not crazy about the idea of shunning tradition and like the potential of making Bond monogamous in the future. I never understood why Bond is called “sexist” just for being polygamous.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    NTTD didn’t have even one unclad girl in the titles if I’m not mistaken? I won’t bemoan too much yet as CR and DN also did not do this, but the desexualization of women in media is a big thing now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the way forward, sadly.

    I mean, I don’t think we’ll have another Bond “Bimbo”, but the series has sort of done an excellent job within the Craig era, as well as films like GE, and OHMSS, of sexualizing the women without having to rely on the bikinis, bimbo attitudes, long camera shots, etc...

    An intelligent mind is just as sexy to some men as looks, and if Vesper, Madeline, Natalya, and Tracy (she deserves to be included because Diana Rigg paved the way for this type of these types in the series) are anything to go by, I’m perfectly content with future Bond Girls and that type of direction down the road.

    I think the modern Bond girls have been great and attractive too. I’m just not crazy about the idea of shunning tradition and like the potential of making Bond monogamous in the future. I never understood why Bond is called “sexist” just for being polygamous.

    I’m not too big on that either, but I like to think that Barbara Broccoli at least knows something like that will be extremely harmful to the franchise. I think the constant criticism within the films of Bond’s sexism was perfectly great for Goldeneye, but have since felt like hitting the same nail with the hammer over and over again in order to prove some kind of relevance.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    We need a Bond that has no attraction to women, who doesn't drink or smoke, and who only kills in great numbers.
    RoboBond!
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    BotBond!
  • I am JB007...human cyborg relations, and I am fluent in over 6 millions methods of MURDER
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I am JB007...human cyborg relations, and I am fluent in over 6 millions methods of MURDER
    LOL of the month!!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote: »
    We need a Bond that has no attraction to women, who doesn't drink or smoke, and who only kills in great numbers.
    RoboBond!

    I think I found what you're looking for.
    z5760O4l.png
  • Posts: 1,704
    An example of the new woke Bond take on sexuality is seen in NTTD when it's Bond in a swim suit while Madeline stays submerged in the cove during the PTS. Many of the Bond women have been self reliant and smart while also being very sexy. We have lost a good deal of the male fantasy elements that define Bond in the quest of a larger demographic of ticket buyers. Such is life in these times.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 12,249
    delfloria wrote: »
    An example of the new woke Bond take on sexuality is seen in NTTD when it's Bond in a swim suit while Madeline stays submerged in the cove during the PTS. Many of the Bond women have been self reliant and smart while also being very sexy. We have lost a good deal of the male fantasy elements that define Bond in the quest of a larger demographic of ticket buyers. Such is life in these times.

    Yes, this is the kind of thing I’m not crazy about that I’m noticing too. Paloma showed some skin in her dress, but there’s no doubt they’ve been trying to subvert things and cut out sexual attitudes about women. The objective of desexualizing just feels hypocritical to me when most everyone still has these feelings inside anyway. Sexualizing men and women doesn’t have to be an inherently negative thing, and in my opinion, it really isn’t throughout the Bond series with plenty of strong characters. Going way back to TB, Connery probably shows his skin more often than any of the girls too, and I see nothing wrong with either; having the sexualization of attractive people, both male and female, is just natural expression.
  • delfloria wrote: »
    An example of the new woke Bond take on sexuality is seen in NTTD when it's Bond in a swim suit while Madeline stays submerged in the cove during the PTS.

    But she was also wearing one, it can be seen clearly when she emerges.

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,279
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig and EON knew they were sparking controversy for its own sake. They saw the reaction to the (awful) SW sequels, hell Craig even cameo'd in one of them. They knew they were essentially making the Bond version of The Last Jedi, where the hero is a broken-down wreck and gets bumped off for an annoying female replacement. They knew it'd piss off fans and they did it anyway.

    On the money there mate, that’s exactly why they did it. I work at EON and I was in a meeting where MGW suggested a traditional Bond gets the girl ending, for the fans. Unfortunately, Daniel Craig himself suddenly burst in ranting about how he didn’t want Star Wars to outwoke them, and demanding they change the script. Barbara, of course, just sat back and let him take control, because what Craig wants, Craig gets, and she really hates the fans. The ending happening to be a fitting conclusion the ongoing themes and character arcs of the era was pure coincidence, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Feminazi Craig just wanted to copy Star Wars.

    Personally though, I’m pretty happy about that. I’m black and it’s nice to see our evil plan coming to fruition. We’re all in on it. The women, the blacks, the gays. And of course, the modern world has gone so mental and woke that nobody will dare stand up to our cultural genocide. There’ll be no more boring straight white men left on screen by the time we’re done B-)

    :)) Nice!

    I do think Craig was given the reigns a bit too much with the franchise though, and I don't agree with his vision of Bond, particularly in the last 2 films. He didn't get the essence of the Fleming character like Dalton did, who to me is the only actor that really pushed for the novel adaptations, and really understood the literary character. After that I'd probably say it was Connery, and then Lazenby. Craig is now sliding towards the bottom of the barrel, joining Moore and Brozza, which is a shame as I didn't have this opinion at the start of Craig's reign. I thought he really understood Fleming when CR and QoS came out.

    Craig built Bond into an interpretation of his own, that wasn't Fleming. He became a grumpy, lonely man, a family man who has retcon family connections with Blofeld (still unforgiveable).

    There were moments in NTTD when we were no longer seeing Craig playing Bond, but Craig playing Craig - particularly the confrontation scenes with Blofeld, M, and the pleading scene with Safin.

    The biggest gripe by many - Bond having a child and being killed at the end, has Craig's rubber stamp all over it. Babs gave him too much control.

    What I'd give now for the next film to have no family backstories, or retcon crap, or personal angst. Just a hard-hitting, brutal spy thriller, that borrows shamelessly from the Fleming books, and we see Bond as a sexist dinosaur again, slapping asses while saying `man talk', smoking 60 fags a day, and popping some Benzedrine before a mission, just to really offend the snowflake generation (and probably Babs too).
  • Posts: 1,394
    FoxRox wrote: »
    NTTD didn’t have even one unclad girl in the titles if I’m not mistaken? I won’t bemoan too much yet as CR and DN also did not do this, but the desexualization of women in media is a big thing now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the way forward, sadly.

    This unfortunately seems to be the case.Having women who look attractive seems to be a bad thing now.What these people don’t realise is that there actually is a big female audience for these films and appreciate the glamour of those past Bond girls.

    The actress Alice Eve who “ notoriously “ had a gratuitous scene where she posed in her undies in Star Trek:Into Darkness,was asked a question by a woke journalist who asked her if she felt objectified and overtly sexualised in that scene.Eve had a particularly refreshing answer to that question who said that she was proud of that scene.She worked hard to get in shape and said “ I looked good didn’t i? “.

    Good to see not all Hollywood actresses went to the same man hating school as Brie Larson!

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I'm afraid I'm moving into @Murdock territory here... the Craig era is fast sliding into a box for me, one that I shall probably not want to re-open.
    CR was an okay place to start a reboot, but it messed up the end of the book so we could see Vesper die in an in-your-face way so we could get all teary...
    QOS was a step up IMO.
    From then on it all went to crap.
    One take away from NTTD- it showed me what an under-appreciated masterpiece Die Another Day is.

    Based on what I've seen thus far, EON is dead to me.
    I have zero faith that I will ever see a decent new James Bond film again in my lifetime.

    Unless they sell the franchise to a company that wants to bring the feel of the old days back when Bond was an adventure series, and not a damned soap opera....
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm afraid I'm moving into Murdock territory here...

    263683621_242806391277679_2685788199832483916_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_xKzi9kbKW8AX8h-_Wk&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=59f0f25dd6f59ed6df9880ef9d7fdc1a&oe=61AF17D9
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    One take away from NTTD- it showed me what an under-appreciated masterpiece Die Another Day is.

    Based on what I've seen thus far, EON is dead to me.
    I have zero faith that I will ever see a decent new James Bond film again in my lifetime.

    DAD a masterpiece?

    Ha ha ha ad infinitum....



  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm afraid I'm moving into Murdock territory here...

    263683621_242806391277679_2685788199832483916_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_xKzi9kbKW8AX8h-_Wk&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=59f0f25dd6f59ed6df9880ef9d7fdc1a&oe=61AF17D9

    I am quite scary. This is what No Time To Die did to me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm afraid I'm moving into Murdock territory here...

    263683621_242806391277679_2685788199832483916_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_xKzi9kbKW8AX8h-_Wk&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=59f0f25dd6f59ed6df9880ef9d7fdc1a&oe=61AF17D9

    Okay, that was funny.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    One take away from NTTD- it showed me what an under-appreciated masterpiece Die Another Day is.

    Based on what I've seen thus far, EON is dead to me.
    I have zero faith that I will ever see a decent new James Bond film again in my lifetime.

    DAD a masterpiece?

    Ha ha ha ad infinitum....



    That was quite a punch line. I must remember it for future use... ;)
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    CR was an okay place to start a reboot, but it messed up the end of the book so we could see Vesper die in an in-your-face way so we could get all teary...

    We're all entitled to our opinions, of course -- but on this particular point I have to disagree.

    One of Ian Fleming's lesser points as writer is that, occasionally, he felt the need to tell the reader that such-and-such had happened -- when he really should have SHOWED US that event happening. In GF the novel, for example, he has Tilly tell Bond (and by extension, us the readers) that her sister Jill was killed by Goldfinger painting her body in gold paint. In one of the movie's scripted improvements on the Fleming original, we are SHOWN the murdered golden girl -- and that moment is one of the most powerful scenes in the entire Bond canon. In CR the novel, Fleming lets us read Vesper's suicide note -- but he doesn't actually depict her suicide. Again, he tells us rather than shows us. Showing us is the preferable narrative path -- and that's something Fleming couldn't bring himself to do in the novel. The movie took the more dramatically effective path by actually showing us Vesper's death. Not so that we'd get all "teary" -- but so that we could experience her passing most effectively.
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